Dallas Stars: Gaglardi's Stalking Horse Bid: $265 MM for Stars, AAC (50%)

MetalGodAOD*

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(Note to mods; I'm not talking about individual games; this is the average attendance so far this season) Looking at http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance on Oct 24, I see an average 9,641 attendance over the first 4 games... :help: Is this due to the uncertainty over the Dallas situation? Maybe it's one reason there are no other bidders. BTW, the St Louis Blues, also up for sale and with a team in the World series, are averaging 19,150 i.e. 100% of seats sold

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1005649

The reason there's no other bidders is because the team is losing money, so yes it is indirectly part of the cause.

Comparing St. Louis or any other city to Dallas's sports scene is stupid. St. Louis doesn't have 2 other championship teams PLUS the 100% consistent draw of football to compete with. Dallas fans always support whoever's winning.
 

Kritter471

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Feb 17, 2005
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No, it's not like the Atlanta situation because the primary cause of the former owner's financial issues/forced sale/inability to put more than the minimum investment into the product came only from off-ice business issues. Without Hicks' house of cards going down, one can assume he would have invested slightly more in all areas of the business, from the on-ice product to the marketing and sales staff (which has been decimated the past few years - there's little or no marketing to speak of), which in turn would have lessened the attendance issues.

Honestly, the closest parallel is Phoenix before Balsillie sent everything to hell. The original owner (Moyes? My brain is hurt) lost all his money when his non-hockey business collapsed, which led to his torpedoing of the franchise itself when he had no liquid income. Now, that obviously takes a hard right from the Stars scenario at one point because the team was forced into an (against the NHL bylaws) bankruptcy whereas the Stars voluntarily entered once they were taken over by the lenders to clear old debts.

Honestly, the closest parallel is the Texas Rangers, who had attendance issues throughout the 2009 and 2010 seasons until the purchase to the Ryan/Greenberg group was finalized. Then once it became clear they were playoff bound in 10, ticket sales picked up and were great this year.

ETA: As far as the attendance issues in and of themselves, I ranted about this on the Stars board once and can link you to the down-and-dirty reasons the attendance sucks so far this year if you want. Long story short - lack of marketing staff and Hicks' business decisions torpedoed relationships with corporations who buy the expensive seats, interim president decided to eliminated super-cheap single-game and mini-plan deals because he feels like they alienate full STHs, poor on-ice product that gives little appeal to casual dollar in a "winner's town" and a slumping national economy are the major factors.

There are obviously things to fix, but this is a team that had a 2,000 person STH waiting list a decade ago - if they fix the problems that cropped up over the past 3-4 years, they'll be fine.
 
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knorthern knight

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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1005649Comparing St. Louis or any other city to Dallas's sports scene is stupid. St. Louis doesn't have 2 other championship teams PLUS the 100% consistent draw of football to compete with. Dallas fans always support whoever's winning.
  • Right now, there's no basketball in either city.
  • Both cities have teams in the World Series.
  • In the 16-team NFC conference (NFL), the top 6 teams make the playoffs. Dallas is #9 (3-3-0) and St Louis is #16 (0-6-0)
So much for 2 other teams in Dallas, not in St Louis. Last year Dallas averaged 15,073. Right now, if I was Gaglardi, I'd be getting cold feet. Can he still back out of the deal without finacial penalties?
 

Kritter471

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Feb 17, 2005
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Season ticket costs to the Rams and Cowboys are not comparable (seriously, look up about the seat licenses at Jerry World), and I believe the NBA teams charged season-ticket holders and will refund them if/when the season is canceled and for how many games will not happen in the case of a shortened season. There is a lot more money tied up in Dallas, which also boasts many, many more ancillary teams competing for the sports dollar (including two minor-league hockey teams, MLS, two minor-league baseball teams, three FBS colleges and more).

As a Stars fan who lives in Missouri, I can say with certainty that the Blues have invested a lot more in marketing and sales promotions than the Stars have over the past 2-3 season. The Blues have also made the playoffs more recently and have not had an owner who completely decimated corporate and other sales relationships by not paying his bills.

Gaglardi will not back out, and to suggest that he should shows a complete lack of understand of the financial situation and potential of different NHL teams and markets.
 

knorthern knight

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Mar 18, 2011
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Gaglardi will not back out, and to suggest that he should shows a complete lack of understand of the financial situation and potential of different NHL teams and markets.
For the sake of the NHL, I hope that the low attendance is due to Hicks' problems, and that being "under new management" will draw more fan+corporate support. The players are certainly doing their part with the product on the ice. Gaglardi will have to pour money into marketing, and be willing to take a loss this year while rebuilding the fan+corporate support base. The only question is how permanent the damage to fan morale is.
 

Kritter471

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Feb 17, 2005
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All that's definitely reasonable. Gaglardi will have to make an investment in the front office, which has been decimated because of the financial situation the team has been in.

It will take a few years to rebuild the fanbase and at least one playoff appearance (playing well last year and missing out on the last day may have hurt more than it helped, honestly). But a new owner should work wonders with rebuilding the relationships that are so vital to STH sales. Again, I point to the Texas Rangers, who couldn't draw flies even in early 2010 before the sale went through but set an attendance record this year.
 

LadyStanley

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goyotes

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Good for the Stars! Nice to see hockey will stay in Big "D" for some time to come. No doubt attendence will improve right away when the cloud is removed. The Stars are off to a great, and some might say, unpredicted start. Really a fun team to watch that gives an honest effort every night.

Maybe the BoG could make it a 2 for 1 deal and get the Coyotes' ownership issue settled at the BoG meeting.

Dear to dream.... Oh, and those two overtime loses where the Stars tied the game in the last minute against the Coyotes...all I can say is "ouch".
 

JMROWE

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Apr 2, 2010
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I belive Tom Gaglardi wants to try & make hockey work again in Dallas but if the stars don't show any improvment on & off the ice in the next couple of years I can see the stars moving ethier to Hamilton , Houston or Seattle . within the next 3 years .
 

Kritter471

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Feb 17, 2005
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I belive Tom Gaglardi wants to try & make hockey work again in Dallas but if the stars don't show any improvment on & off the ice in the next couple of years I can see the stars moving ethier to Hamilton , Houston or Seattle . within the next 3 years .
Of course you can.

Care to tell me how exactly that would work with the current agreements with the AAC and City of Dallas?
 

0point1

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Sep 14, 2011
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Good for the Stars! Nice to see hockey will stay in Big "D" for some time to come. No doubt attendance will improve right away when the cloud is removed.

I agree, it is great to see a new (and good) owner in Dallas. An added bonus is that he has D/FW roots as well. The Stars are a great example of how hockey can do really well in nontraditional markets. Even though there are issues now, like attendance and operating loss, most of those woes right now are related to the past ownership issues and may take a few seasons to resolve.

Has there be any talk about Gaglardi selling the 50% interest in AAC to Cuban? Cuban wants/wanted that 50% and Gaglardi could sell it and get some of his cash back.

-John writing from Phoenix
 

Bjorn Le

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May 17, 2010
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I belive Tom Gaglardi wants to try & make hockey work again in Dallas but if the stars don't show any improvment on & off the ice in the next couple of years I can see the stars moving ethier to Hamilton , Houston or Seattle . within the next 3 years .

The Stars will never ever move, even if they didn't have all the buearacracy that's keeping them there till the 2030s. The Dallas-Fortworth area can easily support the Stars, the Stars used to be (And still are) one of the most valuable franchises in the NHL and have massive room to grow. They have a history of extremely strong attendence that has only went down since we began to have ownership woes.

Dallas will never move unless the city suffered a catastrophe where everyone had to leave.
 

kevkev

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Nov 18, 2010
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Its always the first thing people around these parts seem to shout when a team has low attendance - LETS MOVE THEM.

The Dallas Stars will not be going anywhere for the foreseeable future, lets clear that one up first. Why?

Firstly, From my understanding, they have a lengthy contract (I recall reading it is 20 years or so) with either the city or with the arena they play in and this would prevent such a move from happening.

Secondly, Just because attendance is a little shaky at the current moment does not reflect on how it will be for the future or was in the past. Given the teams track record recently, the ownership struggles and severe lack of marketing it is easy to explain why it looks bad.
The Stars brought premier level hockey to a relatively untapped market and have been very successful over the years and its certainly worked well. Dallas is a huge city with a good catchment area.

Thirdly, The NHL despises moving teams and shifting Atlanta north was something that they didn't necessarily wish to do but when push came to shove they had little option. Just because however Canada has gotten 1 team back, certainly doesn't mean you will get all the other "evil" "failing" "struggling" "sunbelt" teams. Stop moaning, relocating and plotting. Enjoy the countless number of league teams you have up there; or the amazing NHL teams you currently have.

In conclusion, its good to hear some progress and hopefully once the deal is done; all you naysayers and people who have some obsession with suggesting where teams will relocate to will move on to whoever is next on your firing list.

Everyone is way to hell bent on who owns teams and this includes every team not just the Stars, whether they are profitable and what the attendance is like.
How about, you leave those issues to the owners, the number crunchers and the bank people and you just simply enjoy the team for what they should be to us - A Professional Hockey team who go out on game nights and give us nail-biting, gripping and exciting action.

Kev.
 

Sports Enthusiast

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All that's definitely reasonable. Gaglardi will have to make an investment in the front office, which has been decimated because of the financial situation the team has been in.

It will take a few years to rebuild the fanbase and at least one playoff appearance (playing well last year and missing out on the last day may have hurt more than it helped, honestly). But a new owner should work wonders with rebuilding the relationships that are so vital to STH sales. Again, I point to the Texas Rangers, who couldn't draw flies even in early 2010 before the sale went through but set an attendance record this year.

Winning will do that for you...

Of course they set an attendance record, the team was good in a bad division and they just came off a World Series appearance. This could happen in ANY market.
 

Sports Enthusiast

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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1005649

The reason there's no other bidders is because the team is losing money, so yes it is indirectly part of the cause.

Comparing St. Louis or any other city to Dallas's sports scene is stupid. St. Louis doesn't have 2 other championship teams PLUS the 100% consistent draw of football to compete with. Dallas fans always support whoever's winning.

Don't see your point here. The Cowboys haven't won the SuperBowl since the EARLY 90's and the Stars haven't won since 1999. STL actually has 3 Championships as a city since then. I believe I heard on some amazing streaks in sports countdown once that STL at one point in Hockey made the playoffs some 20 odd years in a row, impressive. Even the Yankees with their infinity payroll haven't done that the last 20 years, 15 even.

The Dallas sports scene while it might be big is nothing spectacular at days end. The Cowboys have basically been a train wreck for 15 years. The Rangers until last year hadn't done anything since the mid 90's. The NBA isn't even worth the time of day to mention as the majority in this country just don't care about it.

If we wanna get on the Sports Scene thing, STL is a mecca for Baseball, especially the National League brand.
 

ElGuapo

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Nov 30, 2010
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Don't see your point here. The Cowboys haven't won the SuperBowl since the EARLY 90's and the Stars haven't won since 1999. STL actually has 3 Championships as a city since then. I believe I heard on some amazing streaks in sports countdown once that STL at one point in Hockey made the playoffs some 20 odd years in a row, impressive. Even the Yankees with their infinity payroll haven't done that the last 20 years, 15 even.

The Dallas sports scene while it might be big is nothing spectacular at days end. The Cowboys have basically been a train wreck for 15 years. The Rangers until last year hadn't done anything since the mid 90's. The NBA isn't even worth the time of day to mention as the majority in this country just don't care about it.

If we wanna get on the Sports Scene thing, STL is a mecca for Baseball, especially the National League brand.

Dallas sports scene is phenomenal, especially right now. Every major league team is good. Worst right now is the Cowboys, and they are .500 and will end up being a bubble playoff team IMO. Rangers, Stars, Mavs big winners right now. Not to mention multiple D1 college teams, MLS, a junior hockey team, I believe three minor league baseball teams, and two CHL teams. I wish I lived there(few hour away) I'd be in sports heaven.

As for the Stars, they were one of the big wigs in the league financially and I think they'll get back there.
 

MetalGodAOD*

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Don't see your point here. The Cowboys haven't won the SuperBowl since the EARLY 90's and the Stars haven't won since 1999. STL actually has 3 Championships as a city since then. I believe I heard on some amazing streaks in sports countdown once that STL at one point in Hockey made the playoffs some 20 odd years in a row, impressive. Even the Yankees with their infinity payroll haven't done that the last 20 years, 15 even.

The Dallas sports scene while it might be big is nothing spectacular at days end. The Cowboys have basically been a train wreck for 15 years. The Rangers until last year hadn't done anything since the mid 90's. The NBA isn't even worth the time of day to mention as the majority in this country just don't care about it.

If we wanna get on the Sports Scene thing, STL is a mecca for Baseball, especially the National League brand.

Football will always be #1 in Texas, no matter how bad the Cowboys do. Just like in Edmonton they'll support the Oilers no matter how bad the team gets. It's just the way the area is.

You can talk trash about the NBA but DFW cares about winning, and the Mavs just won it all. Just like how the Stars gained popularity when they were successful in the 90s and early 2000s, the Mavs and Rangers have gained popularity due to their success. Dallas supports winners.

In related news, Lebrun gave an update today on the situation:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...t-winter-classic-1-3-1-debate-at-gms-meetings

If all goes swimmingly in the next little while, Tom Gaglardi could be sitting in the owners' box as soon as a Nov. 21 game in Dallas. That's if everything goes well. So far, so good.

A source told ESPN.com the Vancouver businessman has already been successfully vetted by the executive committee of the board of governors. That's a huge step. Next, as reported by Mark Stepneski of ESPNDallas.com on Thursday, the bankruptcy court hearing to award the team to Gaglardi has been moved up to Nov. 18.


The final step is for the full board of governors to approve him as owner, a process that is currently happening via fax vote.

Again, unless there are any unforeseen delays, he should be the new Stars owner within the next two weeks.

Owners already vetting Gaglardi, probably will be approved quickly. This nightmare is almost over.
 

Hawker14

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Oct 27, 2004
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I wouldn't get hung up too much on Dallas' attendance. This is still a franchise that generated about ~$86m/yr in revenues the past two seasons.

If Gaglardi capitalizes this team well with little debt, it's a breakeven proposition at worst at current levels.

The bankruptcy filings show a surprisingly strong financial model, even with the low gate.
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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Waterloo Ontario
Just curious to see if anyone has seen the actual court documents? The Phoenix filing gave us a very good picture of the financial workings of an NHL team. This would add to that knowledge base.
 

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