GDT: Dallas Stars (16-8-5) @ New Jersey Devils (21-5-2), 7 PM, MSG, BSSW

[Captain3rdLine]

Absolutely. I love his shot blocking too. His transition to the NHL has been easy bc he's a two way guy...

But even so he's a rookie so he's making the occasional blunder and getting lined up for big hits so it's a step down from Bastians chemistry on that line. I actually thought he was more valuable to us in the top6

I think he’s getting lined up for hits because he’s not afraid of taking them. Puts in the extra effort even if someone’s trying to run him over. Either gets run over or hits back and occasionally runs them over. There’s a lot of players out there and on this team that don’t get lined up because they do everything to avoid big hits. They stop, turn out of the way. Don’t have a problem with that but Zetterlund doesn’t do that. Pretty much always just accepts it or hits back.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm not blaming Ruff or anything, as these losses will happen and we weren't getting 135 points and winning 65 games this year, but I'm pretty glad Ruff wasn't extended (that we know of, we probably would know by now if he was) during the 13 game winning streak.

I can imagine extending him, Vancouver or some shit hires Brunette in the offseason. Then we fire Ruff within the next year anyway, after we've lost Andrew Brunette.

 

[My3Sons]

I'm not blaming Ruff or anything, as these losses will happen and we weren't getting 135 points and winning 65 games this year, but I'm pretty glad Ruff wasn't extended (that we know of, we probably would know by now if he was) during the 13 game winning streak.

I can imagine extending him, Vancouver or some shit hires Brunette in the offseason. Then we fire Ruff within the next year anyway, after we've lost Andrew Brunette.

If the team does well enough this season it’s going to be tricky to hand off the head coaching gig.

 

[Bleedred]

If the team does well enough this season it’s going to be tricky to hand off the head coaching gig.

I don't think the organization wants to lose Brunette.

Wouldn't be surprised if next year is announced as Ruff's final season, be it voluntary on Ruff's part or not, with Brunette taking over the next year.

Now if we make the playoffs, especially if we do two years in a row, Ruff may be in demand somewhere on a short term contract, like Rick Bowness (who's 5 years older) this offseason, so maybe he decides to go elsewhere, rather than stay on our payroll doing something else in the organization, which I think he'll be offered by us if we don't keep him as head coach.

 

[guitarguyvic]

If the team does well enough this season it’s going to be tricky to hand off the head coaching gig.

I completely disagree. Doing well this season means they've taken the next step. Perfect time to take the next step with the coaching staff as well. And it's a smooth transition to a guy already standing behind the bench in an associate role.

 

[My3Sons]

I completely disagree. Doing well this season means they've taken the next step. Perfect time to take the next step with the coaching staff as well. And it's a smooth transition to a guy already standing behind the bench in an associate role.

Maybe. But if NJ wins say two rounds in the playoffs and is competitive in a third round and Ruff doesn’t want to go? It’s not impossible or unprecedented but it’s not the sort of move you see that often. I expect management will make the smart choice whatever it is.

 

[Bleedred]

I completely disagree. Doing well this season means they've taken the next step. Perfect time to take the next step with the coaching staff as well. And it's a smooth transition to a guy already standing behind the bench in an associate role.

Yup

One guy is 63 years old (or turning 63 soon) and I'm pretty sure the other guy isn't even 50.

Don't make the same mistake Florida made. They're clearly not the same team under Ole' Four Eyes as they were under Brunette. They don't have the transition/rush game that they had under Brunette or that we've been showing for a lot of this season.

They play more of a Darryl Sutter or DeBoer grinding type of system and while those can be effective, it's looking more like the end of Sutter in LA where a lot of the shots are not dangerous. It's almost one of those ''See how many shots you can take, bad angles and throw whatever low-ish percentage shot you can at the goalies feet and hope it goes in'' type of system. They're still talented enough that they should be scoring more goals and doing better, but they are nowhere near as dynamic.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Maybe. But if NJ wins say two rounds in the playoffs and is competitive in a third round and Ruff doesn’t want to go? It’s not impossible or unprecedented but it’s not the sort of move you see that often. I expect management will make the smart choice whatever it is.

I know this is speculative, but based on the circumstances of Brunette's hiring, the title they gave him and the fact that Ruff's contract wasn't extended... I think there's a strong likelihood that having Brunette take over next year has been the plan all along and Ruff agreed to it. I have a hard time picturing a situation where this wasn't the case and Ruff wants to stay coaching.

 

[glenwo2]

I know this is speculative, but based on the circumstances of Brunette's hiring, the title they gave him and the fact that Ruff's contract wasn't extended... I think there's a strong likelihood that having Brunette take over next year has been the plan all along and Ruff agreed to it. I have a hard time picturing a situation where this wasn't the case and Ruff wants to stay coaching.

yep.

I think Ruff knows this so I'm sure he's thrilled that the team is in this position (thus far) in his most-likely final season as a Head Coach.

 

[bossram]

"most" nights being the key term here.

There's a saying that "you're only as good as your last game".

And while the Analytics look good, it won't amount to anything if the result is still a big, fat "L" in the standings.

At the end of the day, Pro Sports is still a Results-Oriented business.

And for 3 straight games, Analytics-be-damned, the Devils did not get the Results desired.

This has to change and quickly.

Getting back into the "W" column against the Flyers is a must.

This is ridiculous, lmao.

So I guess if you've lost your last game, you're terrible. That's the logic here. Well, I guess we better anoint the Leafs as Stanley Cup Champions! Their last game was incredible!

Analytics are valuable because they give you an indication of things to come. In most cases, teams with good underlying numbers perform better in the future. No one is saying they're perfect predictions (and no one's "gut" has perfect predictions either) but they're much more accurate than this baloney vibes analysis.

Like, you aren't even trying to break down how they played visually. It's just, "Ls are bad, thus Devils are bad".

Alright then dude. Every win is a sugar rush. Every loss is a disaster. If you want to treat sports like that, power to you.

 

[My3Sons]

I know this is speculative, but based on the circumstances of Brunette's hiring, the title they gave him and the fact that Ruff's contract wasn't extended... I think there's a strong likelihood that having Brunette take over next year has been the plan all along and Ruff agreed to it. I have a hard time picturing a situation where this wasn't the case and Ruff wants to stay coaching.

I could see that being the case. I’d hope for a peaceful transition and the team is good with it. Let’s not forget that Jack was open about supporting Ruff and doubled down on it in at least one preseason interview I heard. I just want buy in from the players and then whatever works is ok by me.

 

[Saugus]

Every win is a sugar rush. Every loss is a disaster.

I think this might be the best description of the bipolarity of our board this season that I've seen. Well stated.

 

[glenwo2]

This is ridiculous, lmao.

So I guess if you've lost your last game, you're terrible. That's the logic here. Well, I guess we better anoint the Leafs as Stanley Cup Champions! Their last game was incredible!

Analytics are valuable because they give you an indication of things to come. In most cases, teams with good underlying numbers perform better in the future. No one is saying they're perfect predictions (and no one's "gut" has perfect predictions either) but they're much more accurate than this baloney vibes analysis.

Like, you aren't even trying to break down how they played visually. It's just, "Ls are bad, thus Devils are bad".

Alright then dude. Every win is a sugar rush. Every loss is a disaster. If you want to treat sports like that, power to you.

Not many here are going to care how well the Devils played if they missed the playoffs (just giving out an extreme example here) due to them not WINNING games.

Call me what you want but at the end of the day, it's "Just Win, Baby!" 'cause that is the only way we find tangible success.

So yes. I will treat Sports like this.

Because that's how Sports is.

You win, you succeed.

You don't, you fail and go home for the offseason.

Simple, blunt truth.



And I know I'm probably smacking a hornets nest here when I say this but :

Looking at advanced metrics and all that is just another way of saying "Oh look! Moral Victories! Yay! Do we get a participation trophy, too?" and while that's happening, we are watching other teams actually win their games.

*hides from the Analytic pitchforks heading my way*

 

[bossram]

I think this might be the best description of the bipolarity of our board this season that I've seen. Well stated.

My hockey-isms are getting good reviews lately, between this and my description of hockey as, "scarcely controlled pinball".

 

[Saugus]

My hockey-isms are getting good reviews lately, between this and my description of hockey as, "scarcely controlled pinball".

Wait, that was also you? I liked that one too!

I always appreciate a good turn of phrase.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Just take care of business against the mediocre teams we play this week and we can take it one game at a time against the good ones

 

[bossram]

Not many here are going to care how well the Devils played if they missed the playoffs (just giving out an extreme example here) due to them not WINNING games.

Call me what you want but at the end of the day, it's "Just Win, Baby!" 'cause that is the only way we find tangible success.

So yes. I will treat Sports like this.

Because that's how Sports is.

You win, you succeed.

You don't, you fail and go home for the offseason.

Simple, blunt truth.



And I know I'm probably smacking a hornets nest here when I say this but :

Looking at advanced metrics and all that is just another way of saying "Oh look! Moral Victories! Yay! Do we get a participation trophy, too?" and while that's happening, we are watching other teams actually win their games.

*hides from the Analytic pitchforks heading my way*

It's not even really to do with analytics. This level of logic is just bafflingly simplistic. There's more to looking at the game than, "did they win?"

Like, we might want to ask why they didn't win or lose. How can they improve? Is this sustainable? Answering those questions can inform future games.

If you only want to look at the Win column, waive away any other analysis, treat every win like winning a trophy, and every loss like a catastrophe, then you can do that. I just don't get what you're doing on a discussion board then, because there won't be much else to discuss other than, "They LOST! BAD" or, "They WON! YESSSS!".

And again, this is ignoring the fact that the Devils have actually won most of their games.

 

[glenwo2]

It's not even really to do with analytics. This level of logic is just bafflingly simplistic. There's more to looking at the game than, "did they win?"

Like, we might want to ask why they didn't win or lose. How can they improve? Is this sustainable? Answering those questions can inform future games.

If you only want to look at the Win column, waive away any other analysis, treat every win like winning a trophy, and every loss like a catastrophe, then you can do that. I just don't get what you're doing on a discussion board then, because there won't be much else to discuss other than, "They LOST! BAD" or, "They WON! YESSSS!".

And again, this is ignoring the fact that the Devils have actually won most of their games.

What I'm doing here is reading everyone else's viewpoints 'cause they know more s--t than I do.

Me, I just want the team to be successful and get to the playoffs again.

That's me, Mr. Simplistic.

I read all the Analytical stuff that looks great but it becomes disappointing when the actual results don't translate as much as they should in the win column.

 

[bossram]

What I'm doing here is reading everyone else's viewpoints 'cause they know more s--t than I do.

Me, I just want the team to be successful and get to the playoffs again.

That's me, Mr. Simplistic.

I read all the Analytical stuff that looks great but it becomes disappointing when the actual results don't translate as much as they should in the win column.

I get that, but they are winning. And they are on track to make the playoffs.

The underlying numbers suggest this is A Good Team.

A couple losses shouldn't be a disaster. Every team loses some games.

 

[glenwo2]

@bossram Well I wasn't expecting the Devils to go undefeated all season.

But considering how things were these past several seasons, you can understand that seeing the team lose 3 straight kind of gets my PTSD up so to speak.

A win against Philly will help tremendously, though.

Especially with the types of teams the Devils will face afterward.

 

[Rhodes 81]

They lost this game almost solely because they tried to clear the zone rather than just tie up the puck along the board with seconds to go in the period. That's frustrating, but also entirely correctable. I don't think the 3rd plays out much differently if it's tied 1-1. We might have got a goal or we might have won in OT or whatever. This is only a "sky is falling" loss because it's a streak. Break the streak tomorrow, win 2 of the 3 vs. Canes and Fla x2 and split the two games against Boston. That's doable and includes a 5 day break at the end to recharge. Do that and they'll be 25-8-2 and everyone will have forgotten the losing streak even happened.

They just need to figure out who they can put together on a 4th line that can play more than 2 shifts a period.

 

[NJDevs26]

Maybe. But if NJ wins say two rounds in the playoffs and is competitive in a third round and Ruff doesn’t want to go? It’s not impossible or unprecedented but it’s not the sort of move you see that often. I expect management will make the smart choice whatever it is.

Reminds me of the old Casey Stengel line when the Yankees bounced him after losing Game 7 of the World Series because they wanted to keep Ralph Houk

'I'll never make the mistake of being seventy again'

 

[billingtons ghost]

It's not even really to do with analytics. This level of logic is just bafflingly simplistic. There's more to looking at the game than, "did they win?"

Like, we might want to ask why they didn't win or lose. How can they improve? Is this sustainable? Answering those questions can inform future games.

If you only want to look at the Win column, waive away any other analysis, treat every win like winning a trophy, and every loss like a catastrophe, then you can do that. I just don't get what you're doing on a discussion board then, because there won't be much else to discuss other than, "They LOST! BAD" or, "They WON! YESSSS!".

And again, this is ignoring the fact that the Devils have actually won most of their games.

I don't think anyone is taking the stance outlined in your hysterical, extreme false dichotomy above.

Analytics are a nice tool and they certainly can help you make see things in a new light.

That said, they aren't the only source of information, and I think alot of people here have seen the sloppy play, the fact that some key players are off our game, that losing Bastian has upset the apple cart seemingly WAY too easily, by scrambling lines and inserting players who are having a difficult time finding a way to contribute... and they are seeing the Ls pile up and maybe coming to the conclusion that all of the absolutely stellar xGF and fancy graphs we've been watching over our streak overstated the actual strength of our team so they are less willing to buy into a 'everything's ok' philosopy.

It's a losing streak. I expect more of them. When we play with confidence we are dominant and the stats show that. When we don't, well...

We have alot to learn about winning and that's just fine, really.

 

[glenwo2]

and they are seeing the Ls pile up and maybe coming to the conclusion that all of the absolutely stellar xGF and fancy graphs we've been watching over our streak overstated the actual strength of our team so they are less willing to buy into a 'everything's ok' philosopy.

It's a losing streak. I expect more of them. When we play with confidence we are dominant and the stats show that. When we don't, well...

We have alot to learn about winning and that's just fine, really.

 

[bossram]

I don't think anyone is taking the stance outlined in your hysterical, extreme false dichotomy above.

Analytics are a nice tool and they certainly can help you make see things in a new light.

That said, they aren't the only source of information, and I think alot of people here have seen the sloppy play, the fact that some key players are off our game, that losing Bastian has upset the apple cart seemingly WAY too easily, by scrambling lines and inserting players who are having a difficult time finding a way to contribute... and they are seeing the Ls pile up and maybe coming to the conclusion that all of the absolutely stellar xGF and fancy graphs we've been watching over our streak overstated the actual strength of our team so they are less willing to buy into a 'everything's ok' philosopy.

It's a losing streak. I expect more of them. When we play with confidence we are dominant and the stats show that. When we don't, well...

We have alot to learn about winning and that's just fine, really.

My point really wasn't about analytics at all. It was about there's more to saying whether the team is good or bad than Wins/Losses.

You can make that analysis with analytics, viewing, systems, etc. But it wasn't a false dichotomy. Glenwo was acting like the Devils are terrible now because they lost two (competitive) games in a row.