Daigle and Yakupov

[Satastic]

I don't know much about him but wasn't Yakupov labeled an egotistical jackass comin into the league???

Probably because he was Russian. I don't recall him actually having any problems.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I know it's OT, but Drai had no business staying in the NHL given the climate in EDM. Maybe give him 9 games to check him out, but let him get top minutes instead of keeping him in a ****** environment and putting him in a position to lose confidence.

The same could've been said about Yak when he was drafted.

It's not even about the environment (even though it's a factor)
Most big body offensive centers like Drai need time to develop. Just look through history:
Joe Thornton had a slow start
Spezza was sent back to juniors after being taken #2
Ryan Johansen was yo-yoed about and broke out 4 years after being drafted.
Grigorenko was rushed and looked terrible, they were thankfully able to turn that around before it was too late.

Surely a ****ing NHL executive could have made this simple ass connection and said "hey maybe sending Draisaitl back is smarter than having him in that toxic environment and barely developing with just over 10 minutes of TOI"

 

[Aceonfire*]

It's not even about the environment (even though it's a factor)
Most big body offensive centers like Drai need time to develop. Just look through history:
Joe Thornton had a slow start
Spezza was sent back to juniors after being taken #2
Ryan Johansen was yo-yoed about and broke out 4 years after being drafted.
Grigorenko was rushed and looked terrible, they were thankfully able to turn that around before it was too late.

Surely a ****ing NHL executive could have made this simple ass connection and said "hey maybe sending Draisaitl back is smarter than having him in that toxic environment and barely developing with just over 10 minutes of TOI

Exactly.

There is zero reason for Draisaitl to still be on the Oilers right now. The WJC gave them the perfect opportunity to get him away from the team and to regain his confidence.

Instead they bench him a game and call up Lander who has been playing great in the AHL.

Then they send Lander down after only 1 game and call it "pre-planned".

The Oilers management team deserves all of the ridicule they get.

What an embarrassment.

 

[McAsuno]

Exactly.

There is zero reason for Draisaitl to still be on the Oilers right now. The WJC gave them the perfect opportunity to get him away from the team and to regain his confidence.

Instead they bench him a game and call up Lander who has been playing great in the AHL.

Then they send Lander down after only 1 game and call it "pre-planned".

The Oilers management team deserves all of the ridicule they get.

What an embarrassment.

What's more hilarious is that, since Fasth's anguish at the team after getting pulled, hasn't played one single game yet. Scrivens is starting again tonight. Typical oilers though. Say something against the morons management, and you get the short end of the stick.

 

[Aceonfire*]

What's more hilarious is that, since Fasth's anguish at the team after getting pulled, hasn't played one single game yet. Scrivens is starting again tonight. Typical oilers though. Say something against the morons management, and you get the short end of the stick.

I didn't even realize that. What a joke.

 

[dahrougem2]

Yakupov is going to have a fine career, I have no doubts about that. His work ethic and willingness to learn are going to propel him into a very good hockey player. I don't believe he'll ever live up to the hype of being the 1st overall pick, but I can definitely see him as a consistent 25-30 goal scorer down the line.

He spent all summer working on getting faster, and he does look very fast this season. He's also made a more concerted effort in the defensive zone, not making the same bonehead mistakes he made last season, blocking shots, back-checking all the time. He's also one of the few Oilers who actually uses his body out there.

I like Yakupov. I like his attitude. I swear if he was Canadian the media would love him because he's got such a great personality and it's the furthest thing from cocky. The guy just likes to score goals, big whoop who doesn't? He's got an infectious personality and when things are going well, it's awesome to see.

He does need to leave Edmonton, however. Both he and Draisaitl before they're ruined permanently by the Oilers' brass. If I'm Yakupov I'd pull a Kyle Turris, just don't accept anything from the Oilers and force your way out. It's the only way he'll have any success. Too bad for Draisaitil it'll likely be a couple more years before he can do that.

 

[billybudd]

20 years later, the Daigle "narrative" doesn't match the reality of Daigle's career. The poster boy for "busts" didn't even bust. He came into the league as a beautifully skating, smallish, low-end 2 C with character issues and a muffin of a wrist shot and that's exactly how he left it.

Daigle was not Cam Barker or Rob Schremp.

As for the OP, there's a lot wrong there.

The best player on the team at that time was Yashin.

Daigle was given the 1C job in Ottawa. Yashin was behind him. Not the other way around. Yashin would cite his treatment during this period as justification for his contract holdout. He felt that the Sens had always treated him like a second-class citizen and was sick of being paid like one.

So while Yashin may have technically been better, he was stuck in Daigle's shadow. Not the other way around.

He was forced into a larger role on a team that was expected to lose.

Yakupov has not been forced into the role that Daigle was. Yakupov has been protected in the lineup throughout his career. Given minimal responsibilities. Daigle was thrown to the wolves. Daigle actually was as ready for this as he was ever going to be, so no, this did not hurt his development. There is no parallel. Their treatment on this front is opposite.

The team was accused of intentionally tanking which resulted in the draft lottery being created.

Source? I have no recollection of anyone thinking the Sens' losing was a result of anything other than incompetence.

I honestly think that if Daigle had been drafted by a different team, he may have been a great player. But the situation he was brought into that had zero accountability and a losing culture ruined him as a player.

The two things that hurt Daigle's development were a) his attitude and b) the arrival of the dead puck era. Daigle's game wasn't built for an obstruction NHL.

Centers with his frame in the DPE that had more success than Daigle were all some combination of stronger (Forsberg), harder working (Straka) or had a much better wrist shot (Sakic, Yzerman, Turgeon).

Daigle didn't have that stuff and wasn't going to no matter who had picked him. Some guys shoot hard, some guys don't. Some guys have high battle levels, some guys don't.

So, in answer to the TC, Yakupov and Daigle have very little in common beyond their size (roughly) and that they're great skaters. There's very little overlap with what is wrong with each other as hockey players.


One final note. People are acting like it's unfair to Yakupov to compare him to Daigle. This is exactly backwards.

Daigle was very much a low-end 2C. A 2C whose baggage exceeded his contributions, but a 2C, nonetheless. He came into the league as a 2C. He left it as a 2C. There were some off years around his first retirement, but he was fundamentally a second line center and produced like one, for the most part.

Through 2 and a half years, Yakupov has not shown to be anywhere near as good as Daigle was.

This is partly because Edmonton fans think more highly of Yakupov than he merits, but mostly because Daigle is the most-underestimated player in recent hockey history--a lingering result of having been marketed as "better than Lindros" prior to turning pro.

If the scouts had compared him to Janney and he had the exact same career, he wouldn't have been the poster boy for busts.

 

[dahrougem2]

Through 2 and a half years, Yakupov has not shown to be anywhere near as good as Daigle was.

This is partly because Edmonton fans think more highly of Yakupov than he merits, but mostly because Daigle is the most-underestimated player in recent hockey history--a lingering result of having been marketed as "better than Lindros" prior to turning pro.

If the scouts had compared him to Janney and he had the exact same career, he wouldn't have been the poster boy for busts.

I simply don't agree with this. How do Oilers fans think more highly of Yakupov than he merits? When has he had a chance to prove his worth to the Oilers?

All one had to see in order to realize the Oilers could care less about Yakupov is watch the shootout vs the Stars on Sunday night. 8 shooters, Yakupov was not one of them. Marc Arcobello and ANTON LANDER were both chosen to shoot instead of Yakupov.

Daigle was a good player when he actually wanted to put an effort in, but I have no doubt that Yakupov will be the better player when all is said and done

 

[Aceonfire*]

20 years later, the Daigle "narrative" doesn't match the reality of Daigle's career. The poster boy for "busts" didn't even bust. He came into the league as a beautifully skating, smallish, low-end 2 C with character issues and a muffin of a wrist shot and that's exactly how he left it.

Daigle was not Cam Barker or Rob Schremp.

As for the OP, there's a lot wrong there.


Daigle was given the 1C job in Ottawa. Yashin was behind him. Not the other way around. Yashin would cite his treatment during this period as justification for his contract holdout. He felt that the Sens had always treated him like a second-class citizen and was sick of being paid like one.

I said Yashin was the best player on that team and my statement was accurate, I don't get your argument..

So while Yashin may have technically been better, he was stuck in Daigle's shadow. Not the other way around.

I literally said he was forced into a larger role. It should have been Yashin's team.



Yakupov has not been forced into the role that Daigle was. Yakupov has been protected in the lineup throughout his career. Given minimal responsibilities. Daigle was thrown to the wolves. Daigle actually was as ready for this as he was ever going to be, so no, this did not hurt his development. There is no parallel. Their treatment on this front is opposite.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Yakupov wasn't mistreated? What do you call playing on the 4th with players like Gazdic, is that protecting him? Even with the sheltered minutes Yakupov was brought in and expected to produce. Obviously not in the same scope as what Daigle faced but that wasn't my argument..

Source? I have no recollection of anyone thinking the Sens' losing was a result of anything other than incompetence.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/24/sports/nhl-inquiry-on-senators.html

They were investigated and the lottery was introduced as a result.

The two things that hurt Daigle's development were a) his attitude and b) the arrival of the dead puck era. Daigle's game wasn't built for an obstruction NHL.

Centers with his frame in the DPE that had more success than Daigle were all some combination of stronger (Forsberg), harder working (Straka) or had a much better wrist shot (Sakic, Yzerman, Turgeon).

Daigle didn't have that stuff and wasn't going to no matter who had picked him. Some guys shoot hard, some guys don't. Some guys have high battle levels, some guys don't.

So, in answer to the TC, Yakupov and Daigle have very little in common beyond their size (roughly) and that they're great skaters. There's very little overlap with what is wrong with each other as hockey players.


One final note. People are acting like it's unfair to Yakupov to compare him to Daigle. This is exactly backwards.

Daigle was very much a low-end 2C. A 2C whose baggage exceeded his contributions, but a 2C, nonetheless. He came into the league as a 2C. He left it as a 2C. There were some off years around his first retirement, but he was fundamentally a second line center and produced like one, for the most part.

Through 2 and a half years, Yakupov has not shown to be anywhere near as good as Daigle was.

This is partly because Edmonton fans think more highly of Yakupov than he merits, but mostly because Daigle is the most-underestimated player in recent hockey history--a lingering result of having been marketed as "better than Lindros" prior to turning pro.

If the scouts had compared him to Janney and he had the exact same career, he wouldn't have been the poster boy for busts.

I don't see how I was wrong. Daigle wasn't put into a position to succeed. There were likely a lot of things that attributed to his lack of success (DPE Etc..) but my point was that the playing in a losing culture, having a rotation of coaches, and using the NHL as a development league hurt him.

Similar to what Yak is facing now. I never said the situation is 100% the same.

 

[billybudd]

I simply don't agree with this. How do Oilers fans think more highly of Yakupov than he merits? When has he had a chance to prove his worth to the Oilers?

All one had to see in order to realize the Oilers could care less about Yakupov is watch the shootout vs the Stars on Sunday night. 8 shooters, Yakupov was not one of them. Marc Arcobello and ANTON LANDER were both chosen to shoot instead of Yakupov.

Daigle was a good player when he actually wanted to put an effort in, but I have no doubt that Yakupov will be the better player when all is said and done

Yakupov's most common linemates from last season were, in order, Gagne, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Perron and Hemsky. This isn't a murderer's row, but it's not being put in a position to fail, either. It's not as if he's lining up next to Bob Kudelski. Yakupov dropped an absolute bomb.

If Yakupov wants to be a better player than Daigle, he better get going. I'm old enough to have seen a young Daigle and Yakupov is not currently close to his level at around the same age.

 

[billybudd]

I don't see how I was wrong. Daigle wasn't put into a position to succeed. There were likely a lot of things that attributed to his lack of success (DPE Etc..) but my point was that the playing in a losing culture, having a rotation of coaches, and using the NHL as a development league hurt him.

Similar to what Yak is facing now. I never said the situation is 100% the same.

Yakupov's lack of success has nothing to do with Daigle's situation and Daigle was NOT put in a position to fail, unless you want to cite the way the NHL called hooking infractions in the late 90s as being put in a position to fail (Yashin's another story, but Yashin ended up as a highly paid all-star).

In addition, Daigle didn't really fail at all. He wasn't what was promised, but he was a capable NHL contributor of secondary scoring for a decent number of years.

 

[FanHabtic*]

Yakupov's downfall is a lack of understanding of the game. Clueless out there and hurts his team more than he helps. The injustice is that he has not been given an opportunity to figure it out - in the AHL, where mistakes are generally accepted as part of development. Eakins was handed a player that had zero concept of defensive awareness, and he focussed primarily on defensive responsibility (poorly i might add). He never fostered his offensive game. But in fairness, Eakins was trying to win games and marginalized Yak because he could not trust him. The new coach is following this same path. Coaches want to win games. Developing players is secondary.

Where the Oilers screwed up was not giving Yak an opportunity to develop his game in the AHL, with top line minutes and instruction focussed in player development. Yak is lost out there. The Oilers did him a huge disservice. Is he doomed? No, but if they continue down this road, they will ruin him because what they are doing is not working and it is alienating him.

Years ago MaxPac got so ftustrated with the Habs lack of direction and playing time that he asked to be demoted to Hamilton, where he could work on his game. Max had the foresight to understand what was in his best interest, while the Habs brass did not.

If i am the Oilers i put Yak in the AHL on a "conditioning" stint. He still counts to the cap and earns his NHL pay, and would not have to pass waivers. IMO that is the right move.

 

[Callum]

I think Yakupov would still benefit from having a good mentor and a solid organisation.

 

[Mr Positive]

What's more hilarious is that, since Fasth's anguish at the team after getting pulled, hasn't played one single game yet. Scrivens is starting again tonight. Typical oilers though. Say something against the morons management, and you get the short end of the stick.

am I missing something? What did Fasth say against management? If you're talking about that blow up at the bench it was probably directed at the team for the horrible defense. At any rate, he was also playing awful so I wouldn't shed a tear for Fasth the martyr.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yakupov needs to get out of edmonton asap.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Yakupov's downfall is a lack of understanding of the game. Clueless out there and hurts his team more than he helps. The injustice is that he has not been given an opportunity to figure it out - in the AHL, where mistakes are generally accepted as part of development. Eakins was handed a player that had zero concept of defensive awareness, and he focussed primarily on defensive responsibility (poorly i might add). He never fostered his offensive game. But in fairness, Eakins was trying to win games and marginalized Yak because he could not trust him. The new coach is following this same path. Coaches want to win games. Developing players is secondary.

Where the Oilers screwed up was not giving Yak an opportunity to develop his game in the AHL, with top line minutes and instruction focussed in player development. Yak is lost out there. The Oilers did him a huge disservice. Is he doomed? No, but if they continue down this road, they will ruin him because what they are doing is not working and it is alienating him.

Years ago MaxPac got so ftustrated with the Habs lack of direction and playing time that he asked to be demoted to Hamilton, where he could work on his game. Max had the foresight to understand what was in his best interest, while the Habs brass did not.

If i am the Oilers i put Yak in the AHL on a "conditioning" stint. He still counts to the cap and earns his NHL pay, and would not have to pass waivers. IMO that is the right move.

Someone had already told you in another thread that he lost his waiver eligibility a few games ago. Even with his issues, Yakupov would get claimed.

 

[dahrougem2]

Yakupov's most common linemates from last season were, in order, Gagne, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Perron and Hemsky. This isn't a murderer's row, but it's not being put in a position to fail, either. It's not as if he's lining up next to Bob Kudelski. Yakupov dropped an absolute bomb.

If Yakupov wants to be a better player than Daigle, he better get going. I'm old enough to have seen a young Daigle and Yakupov is not currently close to his level at around the same age.

34 games play this season, 12 where he's been given more than 15:00 minutes the entire game.
63 games played last season, 29 where he was given more than 15:00 minutes the entire game.
48 games played in 2012-2013, 23 where he was given more than 15:00 minutes the entire game.

His rookie season was his best, under Ralph Kreuger and given more responsibilities. Yes, let's blame the guy who doesn't get nearly the opportunity he should in order to prove himself as a 1st overall pick

EDIT: Also, Daigle didn't really fail at all? The guy who said he was happy he was picked #1 because nobody ever remembers who was picked #2 didn't fail? I beg to differ.

 

[FanHabtic*]

Someone had already told you in another thread that he lost his waiver eligibility a few games ago. Even with his issues, Yakupov would get claimed.

Oilers can get around that with a conditioning stint.

 

[AHB*]

Yakupov seems to be trying, it's just his consistency that is difficult. Daigle was more interested in dating Pam Anderson than playing hockey.

I jsut don't think the scenarios are relative.

 

[Reign Nateo]

Funny thing is Daigle probably had his best season at Yakupov's age... 26 goals and 51 points in 82 games... Yakupov has 4 goals and 8 points in his first 34...

Daigle didn't meet his expectations because he didn't have the passion and determination to work hard enough to reach his potential. 20 goals and 50 points should have been the floor for him, instead it was his peak.

Yakupov just looks lost.

 

[KPower]

He's on pace for 19 points in 82 games....Daigle was Greztky compared to this scrub.

 

[Rebels57]

What in the **** were the Oilers thinking not sending Draisatl back to Juniors? Makes no sense to burn a year of his contract and expose him to such a depressing situation.

 

[Reign Nateo]

What in the **** were the Oilers thinking not sending Draisatl back to Juniors? Makes no sense to burn a year of his contract and expose him to such a depressing situation.

It's not even so much that they didn't send him back, it's that they said he'd be with the Oilers at the draft... Foolishness. Before he'd even signed a contract they publically announce he'll be an Oiler the following season. Now it feels like they kept him up just so they didn't look stupid... Again. And of course, in Oiler fashion, it looks like it could blow up in their face.

 

[penguins2946*]

Yakupov seems to be trying, it's just his consistency that is difficult. Daigle was more interested in dating Pam Anderson than playing hockey.

I jsut don't think the scenarios are relative.

The one thing Yakupov has on Daigle is that Yakupov actually gives a damn. He needs to be traded and put with a playmaking center. He's being ruined on the Oilers. Yakupov doesn't have the hockey IQ to create anything on his own, and he's being put with crappy linemates (Draisaitl and Arcobello are his 2 most common linemates). He either needs to be played with RNH or he needs traded. For him, the 2nd would be best.

 

[Jacko95]

lol then they healthy scratched him after they told germany they wouldnt loan him

Normally I laugh about such things, but I can't because it's Draisaitl.
It's embarrassing enough to der a Franchise destroy a talented guys career, but the reality is it's Happening far more often than it should.
However Draisaitl is more than just a talented young Kid. He is the chance for German hockey to become much more popular. If German hockey wants to grow Draisaitl needs to get as close to be the Nowitzki of hockey as possible. The interest in Basketball and especially the NBA has grown so much because of Dirk. We German hockey fans can only dream that the same thing happens with hockey here. And to be honest pre draft all I wanted was Draisaitl not going to Edmonton and seeing him now shows me 10000% why.