Speculation: D-Corps 2014/15

[CerebralDevil]

Franson will be too expensive for what he offers, especially considering that we have a number of good prospects coming up, and all the holes we have up front. Granberg, Percy, Brennan (PP specialist) and Finn(few years away) will need a place to play. Ranger has been really good since the break. If we stay with what we have and in the system, and continue to roll 7D, I could see:

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Reilly-Gleason
Gards-(Ranger or Granberg)
Brennan

Have to remember that in 15/16, both Kadri and Bernier will cash in big (+$5M/yr),, we can't handcuff ourselves as we don"t know where the cap is going after next year.

Exactly plus he is good defensively and too slow

 

[seanlinden]

Disagree completely. Many experts point to that it is Gleason that has been the stabilizing force in our D. He probably has 1 more year as a top 4 then would become a great 5-6 for his final year of his contract. Reilly has grown exponentially this year, and having Gleason has given him the opportunity to develop his offence. Franson, I agree, has size and a big shot, but is a liability in his own zone - to much so in my view to warrant the big cash, even considering what he brings in other facets of his play.

Gleason has added a lot of stability, absolutely. He & Rielly have been a great bottom pair, as they should be next year as well. But, he has not been, and will not be a top 4 defenceman again. Even this year, he's only playing 18 minutes, and there's no reason to believe he'll increase his role as he gets older.

Some people really need to raise their expectation level for what makes a good top 4 defenceman. A good top 4 defenceman isn't one who can play a specialized #4 role on a fraction of the nights. It's one who can play close to 20 minutes every single night.

Rielly may develop into that player one day. Heck, he may develop into that player by the end of next year. But as of right now, the place he can be successful is on our bottom pair with Gleason.

As for Franson being a liability in his own zone, so is Gardiner and so is Rielly. The real problem is -- we have too many of those guys, and no stabilizing force at a 2nd pairing level. Obviously, one of Franson/Gardiner will need to be replaced to bring that in, but at this point, we really don't know which one should be going.

In regards to the money, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a weaker part of our team right now than the 2nd pair. So if any money is going to be spent, that's probably the place to do it.

 

[93gilmour93]

I see Phaneuf,Gunnarsson,Rielly,Gleason as the four locks but I'm not sure Franson and Gardiner are back next year. I think someone like Percy or Granberg will play the 5-6 pairing with Gleason leaving Rielly's partner up in the air. I see Nonis pulling a trade at the draft to acquire that player.

 

[The Caveman]

Gleason has added a lot of stability, absolutely. He & Rielly have been a great bottom pair, as they should be next year as well. But, he has not been, and will not be a top 4 defenceman again. Even this year, he's only playing 18 minutes, and there's no reason to believe he'll increase his role as he gets older.

Some people really need to raise their expectation level for what makes a good top 4 defenceman. A good top 4 defenceman isn't one who can play a specialized #4 role on a fraction of the nights. It's one who can play close to 20 minutes every single night.

Rielly may develop into that player one day. Heck, he may develop into that player by the end of next year. But as of right now, the place he can be successful is on our bottom pair with Gleason.

As for Franson being a liability in his own zone, so is Gardiner and so is Rielly. The real problem is -- we have too many of those guys, and no stabilizing force at a 2nd pairing level. Obviously, one of Franson/Gardiner will need to be replaced to bring that in, but at this point, we really don't know which one should be going.

In regards to the money, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a weaker part of our team right now than the 2nd pair. So if any money is going to be spent, that's probably the place to do it.

Your points are well taken. I guess my vision is really a 2 year plan. I am willing to live with certain deficiencies now and next year, to be in a better place in 15/16. I wouldn't put Reilly in the same camp as Franson/Gards. His hockey IQ is far superior to both of them and firmly believe he can handle the challenge of playing top 4 minutes next season. His growth this year has been beyond my expectations.

I agree that Gleason should top out at 18 min, which is why I proposed dressing 7D early Jan. A similar plan next year might be in order as well. Dion, Gunnar and Reilly get over 20 mins, and the other 4 play more protected, situational mins.

Gards or Franson? Our farm is stocked with decent D, but no dynamic puck movers. Granberg will be a RH Gunnar, though more physical, and probably ready for next year. Percy is more of an all around D, as is Finn. Percy will probably be ready in 15/16, maybe Finn as well. MacWilliams, Loov, Nillson are all more physical, stay at home types, but far from sure bets. Maybe 1 makes it.

I would keep Gards, as I believe with Franson it's a case of "what you see is what you get." And I don't like the package. Gards is still developing. And with what we have in the system, another dynamic puck carrier is worth more than what Franson offers.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Franson is going to crank up his game in the playoffs and we'll all fall in love with him again.

 

[Mess]

Our Leafs are one of the weakest defensive teams in the league based on goals against.

While it would be nice if our youth on the farm can begin to make a difference in solidifying the defense, I'm guessing Nonis will be looking outside the organization for help this summer.

 

[The Caveman]

Our Leafs are one of the weakest defensive teams in the league based on goals against.

While it would be nice if our youth on the farm can begin to make a difference in solidifying the defense, I'm guessing Nonis will be looking outside the organization for help this summer.

what? Losing patience Mess?

 

[SourGrapes]

Go out and get another top-pairing defenseman this summer. Rielly won't be ready next year, regardless of how well he's progressed. Keep him 2nd/bottom pairing, leave Phaneuf/Defenseman alone for a while, but get a top defenseman this summer.

 

[p.l.f.]

Gunnarsson Phaneuf
Gardiner - Granberg
Gleason - Rielly

 

[Stats01]

Go out and get another top-pairing defenseman this summer. Rielly won't be ready next year, regardless of how well he's progressed. Keep him 2nd/bottom pairing, leave Phaneuf/Defenseman alone for a while, but get a top defenseman this summer.

As long as you're willing to part with Kadri+

 

[Stats01]

Our Leafs are one of the weakest defensive teams in the league based on goals against.

While it would be nice if our youth on the farm can begin to make a difference in solidifying the defense, I'm guessing Nonis will be looking outside the organization for help this summer.

It would be nice if Percy/MacWilliam/Granberg could make the team on the bottom pairing. It would ease them into the NHL. Plus they would give us some nice cap relief. Unless we're getting a top 2 D-man for Kadri+ or another package, I say promote and give a young guy a shot. I've been impressed with Percy. He's not flashy at all but he's solid, he would be a solid choice as our #5-#6

He has 18 points in 55 games with a +1 in his rookie season on the farm and he'll only be 21 in May. He has all the tools to eventually be a top 4 D-man

 

[Timmy Brent*]

It'd be his first year in the league, and there's nothing wrong with having a very deep defense.

get your stupid ****ing picture/ideas out of here

 

[seanlinden]

Your points are well taken. I guess my vision is really a 2 year plan. I am willing to live with certain deficiencies now and next year, to be in a better place in 15/16. I wouldn't put Reilly in the same camp as Franson/Gards. His hockey IQ is far superior to both of them and firmly believe he can handle the challenge of playing top 4 minutes next season. His growth this year has been beyond my expectations.

I agree that Gleason should top out at 18 min, which is why I proposed dressing 7D early Jan. A similar plan next year might be in order as well. Dion, Gunnar and Reilly get over 20 mins, and the other 4 play more protected, situational mins.

Gards or Franson? Our farm is stocked with decent D, but no dynamic puck movers. Granberg will be a RH Gunnar, though more physical, and probably ready for next year. Percy is more of an all around D, as is Finn. Percy will probably be ready in 15/16, maybe Finn as well. MacWilliams, Loov, Nillson are all more physical, stay at home types, but far from sure bets. Maybe 1 makes it.

I would keep Gards, as I believe with Franson it's a case of "what you see is what you get." And I don't like the package. Gards is still developing. And with what we have in the system, another dynamic puck carrier is worth more than what Franson offers.

Deficiencies should be considered unaccaptable. The #1 priority is to win hockey games, not ice an intentionally defficient roster to "game" for another year. Anyone who operates under that mentality just isn't in touch with reality.

The guys in our system are pretty poor prospects for the most part anyways. We'll be very lucky if any of them turn out into quality top 4 defenceman, and you're likely looking at a minimum of 3 years before that happens anyways.

 

[Cleatus]

I'm more worried about his inclusion of Leino. This team has enough cap trouble as it is.

Leafs are getting rid of Clarkson in this deal. We're gonna have to take back at least one other bad contract if we wanna get rid of the roster space he's wasting.

And yet you propose trading 1 dman a starter and a first in a good draft year for him. Seems highly counter productive and a waste of assets.

Reimer's value is only a 2nd round pick at this point. Franson might bring in a 3rd, so the Leafs would basically be trading a late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for a d-man with a ton of potential. --> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130691

Long Island probably does it because they could use a goalie like Reimer, an offensive d-man to replace Pulock's potential, and a 1st to replace the pick they're going to lose to Buffalo. Speaking of which, Reimer alone probably keeps that pick to Buffalo out of the top 10, and might even make the Islanders a playoff team.

 

[Community]

Leafs are getting rid of Clarkson in this deal. We're gonna have to take back at least one other bad contract if we wanna get rid of the roster space he's wasting.



Reimer's value is only a 2nd round pick at this point. Franson might bring in a 3rd, so the Leafs would basically be trading a late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for a d-man with a ton of potential. --> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130691

Long Island probably does it because they could use a goalie like Reimer, an offensive d-man to replace Pulock's potential, and a 1st to replace the pick they're going to lose to Buffalo. Speaking of which, Reimer alone probably keeps that pick to Buffalo out of the top 10, and might even make the Islanders a playoff team.

I hate Franson.... he's worth more than a 3rd. I don't why Nonis wouldn't be able to get a high 2nd/low 1st for him.

 

[Diatomic]

Ideally we would package Franson for a Defensive D but I doubt anyone would do that.

I agree with the OP,

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Gleason
Rielly-Granberg

Ranger, Brennan (if he stays, many teams will be after him) can be the #7,#8D.

I wouldn't mind going into the season like that but I'd love to get an Edler or Giordano, even if its Gardiner + as the price tag.

 

[Banic]

Leafs are getting rid of Clarkson in this deal. We're gonna have to take back at least one other bad contract if we wanna get rid of the roster space he's wasting.



Reimer's value is only a 2nd round pick at this point. Franson might bring in a 3rd, so the Leafs would basically be trading a late 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for a d-man with a ton of potential. --> http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=130691

Long Island probably does it because they could use a goalie like Reimer, an offensive d-man to replace Pulock's potential, and a 1st to replace the pick they're going to lose to Buffalo. Speaking of which, Reimer alone probably keeps that pick to Buffalo out of the top 10, and might even make the Islanders a playoff team.

Bernier who was an unproven commodity brought in more than a 2nd. Reimer has proven to be a stable and serviceable goalie with playoff experience who is also still young. We are trading 2 established young NHLers and a quality prospect for -as you have said - potential. There is a MUCH better deal we can get for that package.

 

[FriedEgg]

From the 7 games I've seen live and bunch on TV, Percy is ahead of grandberg. Granberg is a right shot which seems to matter to uncle randy. Other than that Percy is the better player today.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

If we are to expect prospects to step in as reinforcements in the near future, this blue line will deal with bouts of inexperience for awhile. I can see us playing 7D next year as well

 

[The Caveman]

From the 7 games I've seen live and bunch on TV, Percy is ahead of grandberg. Granberg is a right shot which seems to matter to uncle randy. Other than that Percy is the better player today.

I've watched maybe a dozen. I think Percy is much more dynamic a player, which is why I would keep him down there another a year to really get his game down, and get stronger. He has top 4 potential.

I have loved Granberg's game, and while I think he tops out as a 5-6 shutdown guy, he has struck me as more NHL ready. I believe he is close to a plus 20, and is a solid stay at home guy. If we are keeping Gards, we need more that style of D on the team.

 

[JackJ]

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Percy-Rielly
Gleason-Granberg
#7 Vet

Franson for pick(s)
Gardiner in a larger package for a young rugged 2nd line RW (everything Clarkson should have been)

Rather keep Gardiner but I get the feeling Nonis/Carlyle are leaning towards moving him.