Current bordeline Hall of Famers (=>30 y.o.)

[JackSlater]

No I'm not kidding. Zetterberg is coach Babcock's #1 choice to shadow the superstars of the opposing team. In the playoffs, when Babcock actually lets his stars PK, Zetterberg is the #1 choice of PKer.

Datsyuk won his Selkes because he scores more points (in the regular season) and because lazy writers are in love with simplistic stats (like takeaways). Honestly, Datsyuk's first two Selkes were okay (though Zetterberg probably deserved them more), but his last one was an absolute joke.

This is all very accurate. It's somewhat damning of Datsyuk's defensive value that Zetterberg gets the biggest defensive assignments over him, but of course Zetterberg is among the best defensive forwards in the NHL as well.

 

[nik jr]

No I'm not kidding. Zetterberg is coach Babcock's #1 choice to shadow the superstars of the opposing team. In the playoffs, when Babcock actually lets his stars PK, Zetterberg is the #1 choice of PKer.

Datsyuk won his Selkes because he scores more points (in the regular season) and because lazy writers are in love with simplistic stats (like takeaways). Honestly, Datsyuk's first two Selkes were okay (though Zetterberg probably deserved them more), but his last one was an absolute joke.

this is not exactly accurate.

zetterberg probably should have won in '08, but was not as good in '09 or '10, and should not have been a finalist, imo, especially not in '10.

zetterberg had the same number of points in '10, and basically the same in '08 (and more points per game).

zetterberg is the 1st F for 3 on 5 PK, but not 4 on 5 PK. zetterberg has never led DRW F's in SHTOI per game in the playoffs.

datsyuk and zetterberg (and franzen, who used to be a checker) are being used less on PK recently. main PKers since last season are helm, eaves, drew miller, filppula and cleary. previously, draper and maltby would be included.

in '10 playoffs, datsyuk was eventually used more on PK than zetterberg (including on 3 on 5 PK), b/c he is better on faceoffs, and phoenix and SJ were dominating on faceoffs.


but i think zetterberg is a better defensive F and that datsyuk should not have been a selke finalist last season.

No he couldn't have, he didn't even make 2nd AS RW.

St.louis had just as much goals, being a playmaker and 2 more assist, he was easily first in line for 1st ASRW had Heatley been placed as a LW

yes, he could have.

i don't think st louis was better than hossa.

points are basically the same 100 vs 102. hossa is a better defensive player, had better +/-, and led his team in scoring by a large margin, whereas st louis was 2nd in scoring on TBL to lecavalier.

hossa also led atlanta to the top of the division.

but when i watched TBL that season, i thought st louis was better than lecavalier.

 

[marty 4 hart*]

What about Forsberg and Iginla? They're pretty borderline.

Forsberg should not get in.

 

[popculturereference]

Daniel Alfredsson: Even I am on the fence about Alfredsson. He has the stats, he has been the face of a franchise (which, admittedly, doesn't mean that much), he has been consistently good-to-great -- but, there's something that I don't like about his chances. I would vote him in, but I don't know if the Hall will.

Martin St. Louis: Lock I think last year cemented his HHOF status. If he continues without a major regression, then I don't know how they can keep him out of the Hall. I don't think he's a first-ballot HHOFer, but he'll make it in eventually.

Miikka Kiprusoff: Not a chance The only chance Kiprusoff has at making the HHOF is five years of godlike goaltending, with a few Cups. This won't happen and neither will he make the HHOF.

Zdeno Chára: Likely I think that, in time, history will look to Chara favourably as one of the best five defensemen of this era. He may possibly need another Norris to get in, but really, I don't see that stopping him.

Pavel Datsyuk: Lock A great player with a lot of hardware. He may lack the Hart, but that won't stop him from getting in.

Roberto Luongo: Not a chance His reputation has been fading in the past few years, and unless he can help this Canucks team to a Stanley Cup or two, then there's no way he makes it.

Marián Hossa: Probably not A great player. Just not HHOF worthy.

Henrik Zetterberg: Probably not He is a great player, just not what the hall usually inducts. From this era, there are a few players ahead of him, which makes his induction seem even less likely.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

I think Marian Hossa makes the hall of fame. You cant really put a price on the value he brings to a team with his great 2-way play, plus he has the stats. How about Rod Brind'Amour do you guys think he has a shot at making the hall?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What about Patrik Elias?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/eliaspa01.html

The best offensive player on one of the best teams in hockey for almost a decade, won 2 Cups, finalist a 3rd time. Leading postseason scorer of the 2000s by a fairly wide margin.

Solid two-way game. Known for adapting his game to whatever his coach asked of him. His numbers were definitely held back a bit by the team he played for. Not just because he had to play more defensively, but because the Devils rolled 4 lines for much of his prime (he only got 17 minutes or so per game when he was the best player on arguably the best line in hockey).

Elias has 759 points in 893 regular season games. Does he need to stick around long enough to compile 1000 points to have a shot?

Elias is currently 56th all time with 117 career playoff points.

The only guys with playoff peaks mostly after the first lockout (so mostly dead puck) who have more than 100 career playoff points:

7. Joe Sakic (188)
8. Steve Yzerman (185)*
11. Jaromir Jagr (181)*
13. Sergei Fedorov (176)
15. Nicklas Lidstrom (175)
18. Peter Forsberg (171)
29. Mike Modano (145)
48. Chris Pronger (120)
56. Patrik Elias (117)
56. Sergei Zubov (117)*

*racked up quite bit of points before the DPE

 

[JackSlater]

What about Patrik Elias?

I would guess that voters will only consider him the fourth most significant player of the Devils Stanley Cup era, and somewhat unfairly I suspect the gap between the fourth and third most important players in their minds will be large. His career numbers aren't going to blow anyone away and he has almost no individual accolades thus far... so I don't really see it. A more thorough investigation of the numbers shows that he is better than they indicate, but I honestly wouldn't expect that much effort to be taken on the part of the voters for a relatively quiet player who spent his career in New Jersey. A bigger longshot than any of the players listed in the first post.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would guess that voters will only consider him the fourth most significant player of the Devils Stanley Cup era, and somewhat unfairly I suspect the gap between the fourth and third most important players in their minds will be large. His career numbers aren't going to blow anyone away and he has almost no individual accolades thus far... so I don't really see it. A more thorough investigation of the numbers shows that he is better than they indicate, but I honestly wouldn't expect that much effort to be taken on the part of the voters for a relatively quiet player who spent his career in New Jersey. A bigger longshot than any of the players listed in the first post.

Well he was certainly a bigger part of the Devils mini-dynasty than a lot of the secondary players who got in from Original 6 dynasties.

 

[MXD]

I would guess that voters will only consider him the fourth most significant player of the Devils Stanley Cup era, and somewhat unfairly I suspect the gap between the fourth and third most important players in their minds will be large.

That is, if they don't see guys like Mogilny, Arnott or Nieuwendyk as more important.

Don't get me wrong : Elias is a better player than Arnott...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

That is, if they don't see guys like Mogilny, Arnott or Nieuwendyk as more important.

I wanted to facepalm at these names, especially Mogilny and Nieuwendyk (in terms of how important they were), then remembered that we are talking about the selection committee.

You guys are right though. The HHOF committee has two sets of criteria used to induct forwards. Pre-expansion, they look at contributions to a winning team. Post-expansion, they look at career accumulative stats (unless your name is Gainey). Elias would have a great case to be inducted if the committee used the pre-expansion criteria, but doesn't have a shot using the criteria now used for forwards.

 

[arrbez]

How about Rod Brind'Amour do you guys think he has a shot at making the hall?

He really shouldn't, but he probably has a good shot at it. Similar to Nieuwendyk I think, where the resume on paper is better than they were on the ice (don't get me wrong, they were both fine players).

Someone brought up an interesting comparison a while back with Jeremy Roenick. They're the same age and both entered and exited the league at roughly the same time. On paper, Brind'Amour's accolades seem to stand out more (Selke's, captained a Cup winner, one of the best ever in the faceoff circle, etc). And he has the benefit of a late-career resurgence while Roenick declined pretty quickly after age 35. But in the 20 years they played together in the NHL, in how many was Brind'Amour a better player? Five maybe? Not many people see JR as a HOFer, yet he was almost always the better player.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He really shouldn't, but he probably has a good shot at it. Similar to Nieuwendyk I think, where the resume on paper is better than they were on the ice (don't get me wrong, they were both fine players).

I don't know. I just don't see the media clamoring to get Brind'Amour into the hall like they are with Nieuwendyk. 3 Cups with 3 different teams, bro.

 

[arrbez]

I don't know. I just don't see the media clamoring to get Brind'Amour into the hall like they are with Nieuwendyk. 3 Cups with 3 different teams, bro.

I could see him getting in. He fills up basically all of the categories on paper.

Offense: 1184 points
Defense: 2 Selke's
Leadership: Always regarded as a heart-and-soul type guy, Captained a Cup winner in pretty spectacular fashion
Playoffs: A solid, consistent producer, and could have easily won the Smyth in 2006
Other: Amazing on the draw, well-liked, extremely dedicated, class act, etc

I mean, that's a hell of a resume, and the selection committee isn't known for their in-depth analysis.

If you asked the most important question: "was he ever one of the best players in the game?", the answer is obviously no. But that hasn't stopped the selection committee before.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

re: elias, he's basically brian propp with cups. to me, that's a guy you think long and hard about inducting. to the committee, i doubt it.

i say this as a canucks fan, it saddens me that markus naslund will inevitably get much more HHOF consideration than elias. not that markus will or should get in, but i'm sure we will hear his name a lot more often than we will hear elias's.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He really shouldn't, but he probably has a good shot at it. Similar to Nieuwendyk I think, where the resume on paper is better than they were on the ice (don't get me wrong, they were both fine players).

Someone brought up an interesting comparison a while back with Jeremy Roenick. They're the same age and both entered and exited the league at roughly the same time. On paper, Brind'Amour's accolades seem to stand out more (Selke's, captained a Cup winner, one of the best ever in the faceoff circle, etc). And he has the benefit of a late-career resurgence while Roenick declined pretty quickly after age 35. But in the 20 years they played together in the NHL, in how many was Brind'Amour a better player? Five maybe? Not many people see JR as a HOFer, yet he was almost always the better player.

To me, his on ice performance was better than his on paper performance. A very underrated player that playing under different circumstances (with different teams) may have been seen as a HOF player.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

re: elias, he's basically brian propp with cups. to me, that's a guy you think long and hard about inducting. to the committee, i doubt it.

i say this as a canucks fan, it saddens me that markus naslund will inevitably get much more HHOF consideration than elias. not that markus will or should get in, but i'm sure we will hear his name a lot more often than we will hear elias's.

Funny, I was just about to say it would be tough to justify Elias while Brian Propp is on the outside. I don't think Elias has enough elite seasons to get serious consideration, at least as it stands. Just too many other borderline guys like Nieuwendyk, Brind'Amour, Roenick, Recchi, Sundin, etc. that are going to stand out more than he does (rightly or wrongly).

I agree with TDMM that he's a guy that probably gets in if he was on the 60's Leafs for example. If Lou Lamoreillo hadn't mismanaged the Devils so badly post-lockout, he may been able to put together enough of a playoff resume to make up for pedestrian regular season totals. And don't get me wrong, Elias definitely has a strong playoff resume as it is anyway. But only hitting 70 points three times? That's a tough hurdle to overcome, even though we all know Elias brings much more to the table than scoring.

 

[finchster]

Honestly, I am really surprised everyone seems favourable to Daniel Alfredsson getting into the HHOF. He was a legit first line talent, but I would never classify him as 'elite' or HHOF worthy. Only one second team all star selection, three times top ten in scoring, one top five in scoring. Maybe his 2006 Olympic performance puts him over the top, but I don't believe his NHL credentials get him in.

I am not sure if Alfredsson has a good Selke record but I can't remember him being a finalist for that award.

 

[seventieslord]

three times top ten in scoring, one top five in scoring

This doesn't exactly grow on trees in the 30-team era.

 

[MXD]

. Only one second team all star selection, three times top ten in scoring, one top five in scoring. Maybe his 2006 Olympic performance puts him over the top, but I don't believe his NHL credentials get him in.

I am not sure if Alfredsson has a good Selke record but I can't remember him being a finalist for that award.

Those "tops" are actually the same numbers than Brad Richards.

 

[finchster]

Those "tops" are actually the same numbers than Brad Richards.

Brad Richards has a Conn Smythe as well,

edit: MXD, Richards only has two, his 5th places finish is his placing so far

 

[Hardyvan123]

Are we assuming Joe Thornton easily gets in?

Thorton is only 31 and if he plays another 5 or 6 years at his current pace then a decline his stats will get him in.

Not a complete player by any means but he would be far from the worst player in the Hall and might end up somewhere in the middle of the Hall pack when it's all said and done.

 

[Hardyvan123]

The lockouts do not get nearly as much attention as they should, IMO.
All the time players are awarded bonus points for games missed to injury, but I rarely see anyone give a player any credit for the lost year - which had absolutely nothing to do with the player individually (health/constitution/playing style). Losing an entire year in the middle of a player's prime is absolutely devastating to their placement in an all-time context. I have no problem assuming many of these players would have another 'typical' season in 2005, but unfortunately we will never know who would have had the type of season to define them. I am much more comfortable awarding phantom points for the lockout, than I am for injuries.

I agree here and have brought this up in several Lidstrom threads. I think at the very least, that if any players performance is more or lees the same before and after the missed year or partial year of 95 then we can give that player credit for an adjusted average points for those missed games in his career up to that point.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I don't know. I just don't see the media clamoring to get Brind'Amour into the hall like they are with Nieuwendyk. 3 Cups with 3 different teams, bro.

Nieuwendyk will make it in while Brind"Amour likely won't.

It's funny though that Brind'Amour looks better for the hall IMO than George Armstrong ever did but the hall standards have gone up quite a bit it seems.

 

[Hardyvan123]

What about Patrik Elias?

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/eliaspa01.html

The best offensive player on one of the best teams in hockey for almost a decade, won 2 Cups, finalist a 3rd time. Leading postseason scorer of the 2000s by a fairly wide margin.

Solid two-way game. Known for adapting his game to whatever his coach asked of him. His numbers were definitely held back a bit by the team he played for. Not just because he had to play more defensively, but because the Devils rolled 4 lines for much of his prime (he only got 17 minutes or so per game when he was the best player on arguably the best line in hockey).

Elias has 759 points in 893 regular season games. Does he need to stick around long enough to compile 1000 points to have a shot?

Elias is currently 56th all time with 117 career playoff points.

The only guys with playoff peaks mostly after the first lockout (so mostly dead puck) who have more than 100 career playoff points:

7. Joe Sakic (188)
8. Steve Yzerman (185)*
11. Jaromir Jagr (181)*
13. Sergei Fedorov (176)
15. Nicklas Lidstrom (175)
18. Peter Forsberg (171)
29. Mike Modano (145)
48. Chris Pronger (120)
56. Patrik Elias (117)
56. Sergei Zubov (117)*

*racked up quite bit of points before the DPE

I like Elias alot but 2 things will keep him out of the Hall.

the 1st is a alck of great seasons, he has 2 or 3 pretty good ones, depending on hos you rate them. (We are talking regular season here).
2nd, fair or unfair , his drop off after his illness will be what voters remember the most about him IMO.

 

[finchster]

This doesn't exactly grow on trees in the 30-team era.

Since 2000-01 (30 teams) twelve different players had three top ten finishes. Some players are redundant (Sakic for example had three more after 2000-01, Jagr four etc), so while they don’t grow on trees, twelve players in total and ten new players in 9 seasons isn’t an elite club, more like winning an individual award.

Here are the points since 2000-01.

Joe Thornton (3,1,2,5,8)
Alex Ovechkin (3,1,2,2)
Sidney Crosby (6, 1,3,2)
Ilya Kovalchuck (2,8,10,6)
Jarome Iginla (1,3,8)
Martin St Louis (1,5,6)
Markus Naslund (2,2,4)
Dany Heatley (9,4,4)
Daniel Alfredsson (7,4,9)
Marc Savard (9, 9, 9)

Except Marc Savard, Alfredsson has the lowest total finishes out of everyone on this list. Again except for Marc Savard, Alfredsson has the fewest individual accolades. I would agree, most on that list are going to the HHOF, but would you put Markus Naslund or Marc Savard in the HHOF? I wouldn’t, three top ten finishes is good, it is not “elite” imo.

Alfredsson isn't a lock right now in my mind, but his career isn't over yet.