Culture Does Not Bring Wins, Winning Brings Culture

[Chainshot]

I l
ike the museum

Dougie Hamilton, is that you?

 

[enthusiast]

I think it's more of a cyclical relationship than an A-B causal thing. But yeah, hyperfocusing on one aspect is a big mistake

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Culture is a buzz word that is thrown around quite a bit. That being said, veteran leadership (including leadership by example or in raising your game during, say..an epic collapse) and accountability isn't in my opinion.

This is one of the better articles in the recent past I've read on the topic:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lead-like-youd-expect/?utm_term=.a607e53db83f

 

[debaser66]

Dougie Hamilton, is that you?

Ah Ye...
No!

 

[jBuds]

The last 20 games lead me to believe that it’s much tougher to win with a shit room than it is to fix your shit room by winning games.

The falling off that this team has displayed is like nothing else I can ever remember seeing.

 

[valet]

kill housley, that'll change the culture

 

[Der Jaeger]

They go hand in hand and must be worked on simultaneously.

Winning doesn’t breed a good culture. Culture doesn’t breed winning. You have to build both at the same time.

 

[Buffaloed]

What Chain is trying to say is you can use the finest yeast culture but your homemade beer will be swill if you use low qualiy hops, grain, and water.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

your homemade beer will be swill if you use low quality hops, grain, and water.

a.k.a. Botterill's Brew

 

[82Ninety42011]

They both go hand in hand but having team unity and a group of guys lead by example of veterans helps. Sheer talent alone will take you only so far you have to put in the effort as well. There will be highs and lows leadership and culture is what you need during the lows everyone is on the bus during the highs.

 

[sabremike]

What Chain is trying to say is you can use the finest yeast culture but your homemade beer will be swill if you use low qualiy hops, grain, and water.

Still better than Bud Light.

 

[Reddawg]

Still better than Bud Light.

Dilly²

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

One man's culture is another man's 120 point second rounder (and 90+ point 3rd rounder).

It seems like the easiest way to build a good culture (CGY, BOS, TBL) is to get lucky with draft picks after the 1st round.

 

[sabremike]

One man's culture is another man's 120 point second rounder (and 90+ point 3rd rounder).

It seems like the easiest way to build a good culture (CGY, BOS, TBL) is to get lucky with draft picks after the 1st round.

But wouldn't the fact that there are organizations who constantly do that suggest more than luck is involved?

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

You are rarely able to trade for it. Mark Messier being the obvious exception/legend. It's emanates from management. Corporate through hockey operation and to the ice.

Its been a few years since Foligno, Poms, Vanek, etc. were moved to Minnesota but I recall reflections and observations leaking from these moves strongly suggested that the Wild organization ran things very differently from the Sabres experience back here. Tighter, more disciplined, more accountable. More PROFESSIONAL. Yeah, the Wild just missed the playoffs but that's a far different situation from the Sabres current s**tshow.

Pominville would know. I hope he writes a book about it after he retires.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I think they go hand in hand. Tough to win the cup if you don't have a good locker room. I bet you when teams win the cup they will talk about the culture and the team working together.

 

[sabrebuild]

Well written Chain, agreed on all.

I would transition slightly from culture vs winning to culture vs talent.

At this professional level, the management and coaching staff create the culture/expectation level that sets the bare minimum for your Organization, from the worst player talent wise to the best.

That structure has to be enforced and built by the suits and wind breakers.

But it's not high school, where everyone plays and teamwork and best friendships are sometimes decisive factors. You can't win at all without talent in the nhl. You need competitive aholes with serious ability.

Losing guys like that never helps the team win, unless you replace them with far more talented players.

That this team plays the way it does, stylistically, intentionally and strategically, has not built a culture that puts the talent in the best position to succeed.

And we lost talent.

Can't win with him! Can't win like that. Rather play with ten! Damn you Vernon Davis!!!!

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Well you can look at it this way

Teams with a lot of talent do lose
Teams with little talent do win

If you can explain why then you have the answer.

Also instead of culture I would say camaraderie

 

[GellMann]

When the culture is bad, it's pretty obvious. Players X and Y always show up hungover and don't try their best, and other players let their dislike of each other interfere on the ice etc.

If things like this aren't happening, well, no matter how bad your team is, you have a room of guys who worked so hard as to be in the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the population good enough to be there. If there's enough talent in the room conducive to winning games, if your team is built with the right stylistic brands of hockey players and has a coach that can bring them all together, then you have the culture, as long as you don't have the first thing I mentioned, and that's what Chainshot means from what I can tell. ie, you can't tell that this group of players (select any number of them, the ones who can actually play) can't be a part of a winning Buffalo Sabres team before trying it and getting these other parameters right, and so it's a waste of time to move them out for the sake of moving them out barring something egregious like mentioned above when everything else is still such shit.

 

[MagnumForce2]

The falling off that this team has displayed is like nothing else I can ever remember seeing.

I agree, this team was lifeless with no fire...seemed to resemble someone's persona.

 

[MagnumForce2]

I would rather change the culture by replacing both Botterill and Housley than let them be the ones in charge of supposedly changing it.

 

[Chainshot]

The last 20 games lead me to believe that it’s much tougher to win with a **** room than it is to fix your **** room by winning games.

The falling off that this team has displayed is like nothing else I can ever remember seeing.

Something is very wrong with this team. Starting from the top and working its way down.

 

[Dahlin 2 Eichel]

I have a feeling that the GM is printing a few tickets for the coach and some players for a 1 way trip to the sun.

 

[Icicle]

I'm so sick of the commentary that there are issues in the dressing room and that they have to "fix the culture". We have seen repeatedly and personally that "culture trades" are for losers. Win games and tensions abate. It's that simple. Find someone who can run the bench without seeming like he's been pulled out of 1989 and find another couple roster players who are above replacement level for the roster and there will be no more concerns about the room.

The coach and GM are talking about how much they all communicate. Great. That doesn't do **** all for wins. Scoring goals matters. Stopping pucks matters. Effort matters. Passing matters. But kumbaya culture happiness is contrived and should not be the focus of building a winning team.

/end rant

Do you not watch the Bills?

 

[Icicle]

If you’re winning with bad culture you’ll end up with 4 in a rows. And in leagues as competitive as they are now, you won’t even make the playoffs.

Leadership and culture is a real thing. Problem is it starts from the top. And Housley has the personality of a sloth that rides on reputation.

Nothing will improve until that does