Culture Change

[ACC1224]

They've definately changed the "culture". It will be nice to see a hardworking Team again.

 

[Future]

What you're seeing now is more players that work their ***** off coming. Polak, Robidas, Komarov, and Santo all play hard and are well liked. Maybe they aren't all the biggest guys, but they work harder than anyone and set a good example to their teammates and their energy really is contagious, and that's the best kind of leadership.
Work ethic > size.

Compared to last year, it seemed like maybe once all season this team played and competed a whole 60 minutes. It wasn't just frustrating seeing this team be outshot and having little possession, it was even more frustrating seeing no push back or compete from the team.

These moves are addressing this. I've loved the off-season so far, my only concern being where Holland will fit in. I think he is certainly an NHL calibre player, I thought he'd get an opportunity to be the 3rd line centre. But we've acquired so many centres and management talks about him being on the 4th line and that blows my mind how much he would be misused in a 4th line role with his offensive capabilities.

 

[Commander Clueless]

What you're seeing now is more players that work their ***** off coming. Polak, Robidas, Komarov, and Santo all play hard and are well liked. Maybe they aren't all the biggest guys, but they work harder than anyone and set a good example to their teammates and their energy really is contagious, and that's the best kind of leadership.
Work ethic > size.

Compared to last year, it seemed like maybe once all season this team played and competed a whole 60 minutes. It wasn't just frustrating seeing this team be outshot and having little possession, it was even more frustrating seeing no push back or compete from the team.

These moves are addressing this. I've loved the off-season so far, my only concern being where Holland will fit in. I think he is certainly an NHL calibre player, I thought he'd get an opportunity to be the 3rd line centre. But we've acquired so many centres and management talks about him being on the 4th line and that blows my mind how much he would be misused in a 4th line role with his offensive capabilities.

Exactly.

More leadership and more work ethic is the plan, it seems.

 

[Semantics]

It will never happen, but I wouldn't mind one bit if Komarov were given the 'C'. Guys who are loved in the dressing room and who everyone's excited to play with, those are the true leaders on a team. I somehow doubt many players went up to Nonis after Phaneuf was re-signed to voice their enthusiasm. He seems like "that guy" who is loud and rambunctious, but makes you roll your eyes more often than he makes you laugh.

 

[Commander Clueless]

My definition of culture change as it pertains to the Leafs is the way the team is run, not the players on it.

That's one way to look at it for sure. I think that part was covered by the hiring of Shanahan to start that process off.


I think Leiweke was talking players too, though.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think culture change is when ALL the players buy into a system and don't want to let their team-mates down...It's like a peer pressure to keep up with your end of the bargain.

I'm not sure that's possible with floaters like Kessell and Kadri (on defense) in the lineup...Even Lupul played softer last season,which was a big disappointment to me. At times the previous year he was the Leafs best player in my opinion.

Well, you may be right, but I find when it comes to hockey that hard work and energy are contagious.

Bringing in players that will fight tooth and nail for the team is a good plan. At the very least they should be more fun to watch.

If "floaters" still refuse to buy in, they'll probably be gone.


To be fair to Kessel and Kadri, though, both have a high compete level. The problem is, as you mentioned, that compete level doesn't make it to the defensive side of the game.

 

[Commander Clueless]

The season we made the playoffs we still got outplayed by most other teams. We was the worse possession team in the league. But we also had the highest shooting % in the league. Now with a shortened season we some how managed to get in before the team collapsed and the poor play cached up to us like it did the season before and the season after. I dont know why on earth we would want to recreated the 12/13 season. Just because we was lucky to make the playoffs?

A good read about it.

http://blog.philbirnbaum.com/2013/10/corsi-shot-quality-and-toronto-maple.html

The goal is always to improve.

The shout back to the 12/13 season was the way the team played in terms of intensity. Management wants a team that is hard to play against. That description was given to the Leafs in the 12/13 season. It was the exact opposite in the 13/14 season, despite them winning before the collapse.

 

[Mess]

They've definately changed the "culture". It will be nice to see a hardworking Team again.

Last years team got outworked, outplayed and outshot regularly.

It appears by the type of players being brought in that is the culture change that Management was talking about trying to fix.

More blue collar effort and push back is expected.

 

[pspot]

Exactly.

More leadership and more work ethic is the plan, it seems.

No accountability at the top
Gm keeps his job
Coach keeps his job. But assistants get fall

Top players stay, supporting cast takes fall

Until they change the core pièces the same culture will eventually trickle down as the new supporting case sees the inbalance

 

[Dreakmur]

Last years team got outworked, outplayed and outshot regularly.

It appears by the type of players being brought in that is the culture change that Management was talking about trying to fix.

More blue collar effort and push back is expected.

Yes the bottom 6 is better, but te top 6 is the same bunch. The top end guys are on he ice more, and they have a bigger impact on the "culture".

As I have said before, having Colton Orr on the bench does nothing. Unless your top 6 guys are hard to play against, your forwards won't be hard to play against.

 

[cack]

No accountability at the top
Gm keeps his job
Coach keeps his job. But assistants get fall

Top players stay, supporting cast takes fall

Until they change the core pièces the same culture will eventually trickle down as the new supporting case sees the inbalance

The core doesn't need to be changed because they do their jobs. The bottom six was non-existent and the defensemen pairings were not correct. They changed what needed to be changed first.

 

[Commander Clueless]

No accountability at the top
Gm keeps his job
Coach keeps his job. But assistants get fall

Top players stay, supporting cast takes fall

Until they change the core pièces the same culture will eventually trickle down as the new supporting case sees the inbalance

Supporting cast is key to the whole "culture" thing as well.

Realistically, they can't gut the team and management every time fans scream impatience.

Give it time. You may yet get your wish.

 

[Future]

No accountability at the top
Gm keeps his job
Coach keeps his job. But assistants get fall

Top players stay, supporting cast takes fall

Until they change the core pièces the same culture will eventually trickle down as the new supporting case sees the inbalance

GM keeps his job because it has only been a year since he has been hired and in full control
Coach keeps his job, which was stupid IMO
Top players stay because they did their jobs and carried this team as far as they got

Our top line, Bernier, and Dion carried us for 70% of the season. The rest of the team had horrible years (aside from Gardiner, Kadri, and Rielly).

 

[varano]

In no way do i believe the leafs should get rid of phaneuf but getting rid of him is the first step to changing the culture.

 

[Stephen]

It's good the problems are being addressed but it's also a bit damming on the players that they need to bring in people known for work ethic and professionalism to help them dig out of the hole the Leafs are in.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It's good the problems are being addressed but it's also a bit damming on the players that they need to bring in people known for work ethic and professionalism to help them dig out of the hole the Leafs are in.

And that is why the culture have not change. It is the core guys, the top earners, the ones who have the key positions and who see most of the ice time that should drive the team forward with their work rate and leadership. Sure a couple of skill guys who are only skill guys is something you can get away with but when your whole core is soft, lack leadership and grit you are in trouble. It is not the depth guys that should push the core forward, it is the core who should lead the way and drag the depth guys with them.

We have rearranged the bottom six and made side way moves on defense. That is not changing the culture, that is staying mostly the same. People really think Komarov will take this team on his shoulders and carry us to the playoffs? Lol, he is a 4th/3rd liner that even do a nice player to have on the team is still nothing more then a 4th/3rd liner.

 

[Teeder9]

And that is why the culture have not change. It is the core guys, the top earners, the ones who have the key positions and who see most of the ice time that should drive the team forward with their work rate and leadership. Sure a couple of skill guys who are only skill guys is something you can get away with but when your whole core is soft, lack leadership and grit you are in trouble. It is not the depth guys that should push the core forward, it is the core who should lead the way and drag the depth guys with them.

We have rearranged the bottom six and made side way moves on defense. That is not changing the culture, that is staying mostly the same. People really think Komarov will take this team on his shoulders and carry us to the playoffs? Lol, he is a 4th/3rd liner that even do a nice player to have on the team is still nothing more then a 4th/3rd liner.

I like Komarov, but man, he isn't going to be the reason we do anything.

 

[cack]

It's good the problems are being addressed but it's also a bit damming on the players that they need to bring in people known for work ethic and professionalism to help them dig out of the hole the Leafs are in.

And that is why the culture have not change. It is the core guys, the top earners, the ones who have the key positions and who see most of the ice time that should drive the team forward with their work rate and leadership. Sure a couple of skill guys who are only skill guys is something you can get away with but when your whole core is soft, lack leadership and grit you are in trouble. It is not the depth guys that should push the core forward, it is the core who should lead the way and drag the depth guys with them.

We have rearranged the bottom six and made side way moves on defense. That is not changing the culture, that is staying mostly the same. People really think Komarov will take this team on his shoulders and carry us to the playoffs? Lol, he is a 4th/3rd liner that even do a nice player to have on the team is still nothing more then a 4th/3rd liner.

Right on, they should have overpaid to keep Kulemin, Bolland and Raymond and traded Dion, Kessel and JVR.

 

[Teeder9]

Right on, they should have overpaid to keep Kulemin, Bolland and Raymond and traded Dion, Kessel and JVR.

You got all that from them not saying anything remotely resembling that? Show me the magic?

 

[hockeyes]

If we roll 4 lines consistently next year, this team will be at least be much more consistent than last year.

You simply cannot play 3 lines 55 minutes a game and expect them to last 82 games. All the "contenders" have a 4th line they roll regularly and are comfortable with.

So, I think the Leafs picking up these solid depth forwards is perfect, it will let Kessel/JVR/Lupul/Kadri all play less minutes but they will be more eager to fill those minutes.

Not only that, they will have more in the tank when there is 5 minutes left trailing by 1.

I am really liking the off season so far, even if it wasn't what management wanted to do.

 

[cack]

You got all that from them not saying anything remotely resembling that? Show me the magic?

You don't need any magic, you should already know this from watching what is really wrong with the team. There has not been a respectable bottom six and an acceptable group of defensive pairings for more than a few seasons. Culture is not fixed by getting rid of a core that do their jobs, it is fixed by finally getting rid of the overpaid bottom six players and fixing the pairings.

 

[ULF_55]

It would be nice to see a team with some depth so that no one gets a free ride, whether on the 4th. or 1st. line.

It would be nice if Nonis was the GM and not Carlyle.

 

[Stephen]

And that is why the culture have not change. It is the core guys, the top earners, the ones who have the key positions and who see most of the ice time that should drive the team forward with their work rate and leadership. Sure a couple of skill guys who are only skill guys is something you can get away with but when your whole core is soft, lack leadership and grit you are in trouble. It is not the depth guys that should push the core forward, it is the core who should lead the way and drag the depth guys with them.

We have rearranged the bottom six and made side way moves on defense. That is not changing the culture, that is staying mostly the same. People really think Komarov will take this team on his shoulders and carry us to the playoffs? Lol, he is a 4th/3rd liner that even do a nice player to have on the team is still nothing more then a 4th/3rd liner.

Yep.

It's a good thing we're getting hard working players, but it also says to me you need a clean up crew to mop up the hairy fur balls Joffrey Lupul is going to leave all over the ice every night. In an ideal world, a slob like him would be replaced by a harder working, more committed top six forward, instead of relying on energy players to pick up the pace after he's high tailed it back to the bench.

In Boston, where they have a real leader, professional and impact defenseman in Zdeno Chara, they don't worry about his defense partner. Instead, they'll routinely play guys like Torrey Krug and Dougie Hamilton with him as a tutorial sessions designed to teach and stabilize their young players. In Toronto, instead of having Phaneuf help develop Gardiner and Rielly, we worry about finding guys to babysit Dion.

James Reimer? What a joke. Instead of battling to prove his worth and regain a starting job he sulks, rolls over and asks for a trade, basically asking to be given a new starting job. Take a page out of the Tim Thomas playbook man. That guy loses his starting job to Rask as a late 30 something, only to bounce back to regain his job and win a cup the following year.

But here's hoping Robidas, Polak, Santorelli, Komarov and Kontiola are hard working, smart and efficient enough to cover up for the young fat cats who make up our core.

 

[Teeder9]

You don't need any magic, you should already know this from watching what is really wrong with the team. There has not been a respectable bottom six and an acceptable group of defensive pairings for more than a few seasons. Culture is not fixed by getting rid of a core that do their jobs, it is fixed by finally getting rid of the overpaid bottom six players and fixing the pairings.

Ah, just a round about way of ignoring what they said in order to have someone question what you said so you could spout Leaf management motto 101? "Blame the peasants". K

 

[Stephen]

You don't need any magic, you should already know this from watching what is really wrong with the team. There has not been a respectable bottom six and an acceptable group of defensive pairings for more than a few seasons. Culture is not fixed by getting rid of a core that do their jobs, it is fixed by finally getting rid of the overpaid bottom six players and fixing the pairings.

There's a lot of guys in the core who are not doing their jobs.

If you're a 9 year veteran and a captain of an Original Six team making $7 million, you should be an absolute rock back there who can teach and stabilize the games of young players like Rielly and Gardiner and other kids we're trying to develop. A team like Boston also had two very young defensemen in Krug and Hamilton, but the difference is Chara isn't a fraud and he can babysit the kids. Dion Phaneuf is such a mess that he's leaving mistakes all over the ice and completely unraveling himself.

When I see a guy like Robidas brought in to help with the work ethic and leadership department, I don't necessarily think he's here to mentor 51 and 44 exclusively. I think he's partially here to babysit the guy who wears the C.

And that is a disaster.