Crosby vs. McDavid: 1.288 vs 1.251 PPG question

[Kuz]

Here is Crosby's PPG during his prime/peak and the next best ones:

NHL.com - Stats

Crosby - 1.42
Malkin - 1.22
OV- 1.18
St. Louis - 1.07
Thornton - 1.05
Datsyuk - 1.05
Next Ten PPGs - 1.00 (average)

Here is McDavid's:

NHL.com - Stats

McDavid - 1.30
Kucherov - 1.24
Malkin - 1.15
Crosby - 1.14
Marchand - 1.13
Stamkos - 1.09
Next Ten PPGs - 1.02 (average)

Ovis best 3 year period which is what you are comparing McDavid to is at 1,42 for 07/08 to the 09/10 season. If scoring keeps being high next year that is probably possible to reach in a 3 year period for McDavid. 1,35 last year, 1,45 so far this season and possible improvement next season and McDavid might reach those numbers. Actually he should be able to top Ovis number if the scoring is high as it is now. Because during Ovis peak years scoring was way lower than it is now. Crosby was unfortunate with injuries as he lost most of his most productive years and would have a higher ppg with them.

 

[ScaredStreit]

McDavid is currently better than an aging (but still great) Crosby...but he has to keep up this play for longer and still has a ways to go before his career is on the same level as Crosby.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

1.369 after his first four seasons.

He good.

 

[TheGuiminator]

At the same stage of their career :

Crosby	240 GP	335 Pts	1,40 PPG
Mcdavid	240 GP	301 Pts	1,25 PPG

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Crosby was better by a relatively good margin, but I assume that Mcdavid will have a better and longer peak than Sid.. they’ll probably gonna be close in PPG when it’s all said and done.

 

[Old Gregg]

So if there is no data to show that Crosby's PPG took a clear drop without Malkin, how can you argue it? It is clear that Crosby was able to play at his peak ability in 2010/11 and 2013 while Malkin was not playing well.

There is much more evidence to prove that Crosby's #'s are not influenced by Malkin.

And all of this presumes that McDavid's #'s are not influenced by a teamnmate right?

Like playing him with another Center so that he doesn't have to deal with faceoffs and the extra defensive responsibility that comes with that position...

 

[ricky0034]

PPG is incredibly overrated,much easier to keep a high one when you keep not playing full seasons

not a doubt in my mind McDavid ends up with significantly more total points and Art Rosses than Crosby when it's all said and done

 

[bobbyking]

Maybe for the average NHL player, the absolute top tier forwards (McDavid, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin) pretty much hit their peak by the time they're 20.

You clearly have no idea

 

[Randyne]

It is clear that Crosby was able to play at his peak ability in 2010/11 and 2013 while Malkin was not playing well.
There is much more evidence to prove that Crosby's #'s are not influenced by Malkin.

2013 season the only evidence you have. The rest seasons shows Malkin's influence very clear.

Season	GP	Sid PTS	Sid with Malkin PTS	Malkin Share %	Sid P/PG
2005-2006	81	102	0	0	1.26
2006-2007	79	120	38	31.67	1.52
2007-2008	53	72	32	44.44	1.36
2008-2009	77	103	53	51.46	1.34
2009-2010	81	109	30	27.52	1.35
2010-2011	41	66	22	33.33	1.61
2011-2012	22	37	14	37.84	1.68
2012-2013	36	56	9	16.07	1.56
2013-2014	80	104	22	21.15	1.30
2014-2015	77	84	18	21.43	1.09
2015-2016	80	85	13	15.29	1.06
2016-2017	75	89	14	15.73	1.19
2017-2018	82	89	26	29.21	1.09

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The more points with Malkin the more Sid's PPG. Up to 50% holy...

 

[daver]

2013 season the only evidence you have. The rest seasons shows Malkin's influence very clear.

Season	GP	Sid PTS	Sid with Malkin PTS	Malkin Share %	Sid P/PG
2005-2006	81	102	0	0	1.26
2006-2007	79	120	38	31.67	1.52
2007-2008	53	72	32	44.44	1.36
2008-2009	77	103	53	51.46	1.34
2009-2010	81	109	30	27.52	1.35
2010-2011	41	66	22	33.33	1.61
2011-2012	22	37	14	37.84	1.68
2012-2013	36	56	9	16.07	1.56
2013-2014	80	104	22	21.15	1.30
2014-2015	77	84	18	21.43	1.09
2015-2016	80	85	13	15.29	1.06
2016-2017	75	89	14	15.73	1.19
2017-2018	82	89	26	29.21	1.09

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The more points with Malkin the more Sid's PPG. Up to 50% holy...

How come the two highest PPGs don't correlate with the two highest Malkin Share %?

And you forgot to include 13/14, the season Crosby won the Art Ross by 17 points, and 16/17, another season where Crosby finished 2nd in points and won the Richard. I wonder why?

All you have shown here is the two clear best offensive players on the Pens shared a lot of points. If you want to argue who helped who more, Crosby has the better ES to PP ratio than Malkin which can be seen as Malkin benefiting from Crosby's presence more than the other way around.

If you are trying to prove that Crosby needed Malkin to produce, try again. Or maybe don't try at all. It is all baseless speculation.

 

[Randyne]

How come the two highest PPGs don't correlate with the two highest Malkin Share %?

Well... the only thing I can say it's definitely not Malkin's fault...
Baseless speculation... man...

 

[Satire]

McDavid is currently better than an aging (but still great) Crosby...but he has to keep up this play for longer and still has a ways to go before his career is on the same level as Crosby.

/thread

 

[FinRanger]

Crosby better defensively though anyway. McDavid controller disconnects more often in own zone.

 

[Apotheosis]

If the Oilers have a halfway decent team within the next 2-3 years, I can see McDavid overtaking Crosby. His last year scoring 109 on such a horrible team was a sight to behold. Put a better team around him with a better PP (notice he had one of the greatest ES scoring seasons in recent memory) and he blitzes past 120 easily. I don't think 130 is out of the realm of possibility.

 

[daver]

Well... the only thing I can say it's definitely not Malkin's fault...
Baseless speculation... man...

I have no idea what this means, which is the same thing that can be said about your numbers.

 

[daver]

If the Oilers have a halfway decent team within the next 2-3 years, I can see McDavid overtaking Crosby. His last year scoring 109 on such a horrible team was a sight to behold. Put a better team around him with a better PP (notice he had one of the greatest ES scoring seasons in recent memory) and he blitzes past 120 easily. I don't think 130 is out of the realm of possibility.

He has a better team and better PP this year which so far hasn't made any difference in where he stands relative to the league.

 

[Apotheosis]

He has a better team and better PP this year which so far hasn't made any difference in where he stands relative to the league.

Hitchcock. Also, he's only 7 points behind the league lead and he has shown he always scores more in the second half of seasons. Wouldn't be surprised to see 110+ this year tbh. His team on paper is basically the same team as last is what I'm saying. I know you devoutly defend Crosby, but come on man. His supporting cast has been FAR superior than McDavid's. Another top 5 C as his teammate and one of the best PMD's of this generation alone on his PP? Then he gets one of the best point producing wingers in the last decade in a one off trade that led to two cups? McDavid has.... Draisatl.

 

[BackToTheBasics]

Here is Crosby's PPG during his prime/peak and the next best ones:

NHL.com - Stats

Crosby - 1.42
Malkin - 1.22
OV- 1.18
St. Louis - 1.07
Thornton - 1.05
Datsyuk - 1.05
Next Ten PPGs - 1.00 (average)

Here is McDavid's:

NHL.com - Stats

McDavid - 1.30
Kucherov - 1.24
Malkin - 1.15
Crosby - 1.14
Marchand - 1.13
Stamkos - 1.09
Next Ten PPGs - 1.02 (average)

It's way too early in McDavid's career to even do a comparison like this. You're comparing 2 and a quarter seasons to 8... If McDavid follows the usual trajectory, his PPG margin should only increase with time.

 

[MadLuke]

At the same stage of their career :

Crosby	240 GP	335 Pts	1,40 PPG
Mcdavid	240 GP	301 Pts	1,25 PPG

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Crosby was better by a relatively good margin, but I assume that Mcdavid will have a better and longer peak than Sid.. they’ll probably gonna be close in PPG when it’s all said and done.

Possibly but you need to adjust for league scoring (and power play opportunities) too. Crosby had an higher PPG by a relatively good margin, does not mean he was better.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

When Mario retired the first time he had a higher PPG than Wayne. After the second retirement he didn't.

 

[Captain Controversy]

McDavid will have a higher ppg than Crosby in the end. The number of cups however may still be in Crosbys favour.

 

[daver]

Hitchcock. Also, he's only 7 points behind the league lead and he has shown he always scores more in the second half of seasons. Wouldn't be surprised to see 110+ this year tbh. His team on paper is basically the same team as last is what I'm saying. I know you devoutly defend Crosby, but come on man. His supporting cast has been FAR superior than McDavid's. Another top 5 C as his teammate and one of the best PMD's of this generation alone on his PP? Then he gets one of the best point producing wingers in the last decade in a one off trade that led to two cups? McDavid has.... Draisatl.

And here we go again....

what does this have to do with the narrative that if mcdavid has a better team and PP he starts lapping the field. I am simply pointing out that so far this season, that's not the case. We will see how the rest of the year plays out.

 

[daver]

It's way too early in McDavid's career to even do a comparison like this. You're comparing 2 and a quarter seasons to 8... If McDavid follows the usual trajectory, his PPG margin should only increase with time.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions, just showing where Crosby's PPG was during his peak years and how everyone else stacked up, which was quite similar actually.

 

[daver]

His supporting cast has been FAR superior than McDavid's. Another top 5 C as his teammate and one of the best PMD's of this generation alone on his PP? Then he gets one of the best point producing wingers in the last decade in a one off trade that led to two cups? McDavid has.... Draisatl.

Really?

The Pens were worse than the Oilers in 05/06 yet that didn't stop him from winning the Ross the next year with Malkin only finishing in 18th in scoring while Draisatl was 8th and actually played on the same line.

Crosby was almost doubling everyone on his team in scoring before he got injured in 10/11.

 

[MadLuke]

Nice to have Gonchar/Malkin etc.. but Winning the Art Ross with Colby Amstrong and Ryan Malone was not particularly great support.

First overall pick like that often end up on terrible team.

 

[Turin]

Like playing him with another Center so that he doesn't have to deal with faceoffs and the extra defensive responsibility that comes with that position...

Part of me wonders if it’s more apt to compare McDavid and young Ovechkin or young Malkin at this point (people will think that’s a diss which is stupid but whatever). I caught him live last night for the first time and really noticed that he is absolutely a winger most of his shifts. In the 2009 playoffs Malkin was basically playing with Talbot. Crosby as far as I know hasn’t taken a shift on wing since a couple game experiment in 2005.