Craig Berube
- Thread starter Curufinwe
- Start date
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
So wait, Berube gets credit for undoing a mistake he made a couple weeks after it started looking horrible?
deadhead
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Gus, like Akeson, was a marginal NHL player.
At best he's a 6th defenseman who can't play too many minutes.
Akeson is a tweener who doesn't fit anywhere, not big enough or fast enough for a checking line, not talented enough for a scoring line.
They've been patient with the younger players, they started Laughton at Lehigh, moved him up only because of injuries, but he's earning his way on the team, not being forced feed.
You can already see that Laughton has more raw offensive skills than Couts, who is being given a solid shot at producing with Simmonds on his line, and Read has been a good fit with him (don't dismiss 2 solid years on the basis of less than 20 games). If they had a checking line they could trust, they could give Couts more offensive zone shots.
They're taking their time with Hagg, Alt, Cousins, Straka, and Leier, all of whom have a good shot of making next year's roster. They left Morin and Sanheim in junior, instead of rushing them up.
So it's simply wrong to look at two marginal players and ignore how careful they've been with real prospects not to rush them.
Embiid
Off IR for now
Yeah I agree.....Akeson and Gus are two fringe NHLers from the get go because of physical limitations..not necessarily skill. Concentrating on how their development has been stunted is a bit overstated IMO....
Random Forest
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It's easy to wave your hand and say, "Well, Gustafsson was never going to be anything, anyway", but nobody knows how good he could have turned out.
The NHL is littered with unheralded, useful players that began as "fringe NHLers" like Gustafsson. But you have to actually be given a shot in the NHL to ever become one.
The NHL is littered with unheralded, useful players that began as "fringe NHLers" like Gustafsson. But you have to actually be given a shot in the NHL to ever become one.
If Gus is a fringe NHL'er, what does that make Schenn and Grossmann? I know who I'd rather have and it's not even close.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
I could never understand why he was never given a fair shot. Yet Meszaros who was as brutal as a guy we have had around here would always play over him. play a better, younger, cheaper option over a vet? naaaa, not in Philadelphia.
deadhead
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A good comp to Gus would be Seidenberg, but Seidenberg has 3 inches and 30 lbs on Gus, and it took Seidenberg 3 years and 2 more teams after leaving Philly to become a starting NHL defenseman, and he really didn't settle in as a solid player until he got to Boston when he was 28.
If you were ranking Flyer prospects, he'd be behind Hagg, Alt, Morin, Ghost and Sanheim, and probably Vasilev. Friedman is the most similar physically, but Friedman is the same size at age 18.
I think Gus can play in the right situation, but he is very small for a NHL D-man, and while he can skate, he's not in the same league as Ghost. MDZ has turned out to be a full sized version of Gus and a significant upgrade.
If you were ranking Flyer prospects, he'd be behind Hagg, Alt, Morin, Ghost and Sanheim, and probably Vasilev. Friedman is the most similar physically, but Friedman is the same size at age 18.
I think Gus can play in the right situation, but he is very small for a NHL D-man, and while he can skate, he's not in the same league as Ghost. MDZ has turned out to be a full sized version of Gus and a significant upgrade.
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
Gus was already the 4th or 5th best defenseman when he was here. He was better than Grossmann by far and probably better than Schenn. The only players who were definitely better were timonen, coburn, and Streit. He would have probably been a better option than macdonald considering he probably would have a caphit less than half of macdonald's if he was still here an also would not have cost us draft picks. Hell, even if we still had macdonald a gus we would have been in better shape when Timonen went down.
MDZ-Coburn
MacDonald-Streit
Gus-Schenn (always played well together)
MDZ-Coburn
MacDonald-Streit
Gus-Schenn (always played well together)
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
Flyerfan4life
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It took FAR too long. 2 weeks into the season and the two of them had the 2 worst plus/minuses in the NHL.
Random Forest
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Better comparable is a guy like Jared Spurgeon, imo.
If Minnesota treated Spurgeon like the Flyers treated Gustafsson, they would have lost out on a very useful, though undersized, top four defender.
I'm not saying Gustafsson would have become Spurgeon, but we'll never know what he could have been since he never got a chance.
GKJ
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@Broadstbull
"Berube on Bellemare: He's almost too careful at times. He wants the C to get more attack in his game and be more of a scoring threat."
I completely lost it. MAYBE with just a tad more icetime and not on the friggin 4th line.
"Berube on Bellemare: He's almost too careful at times. He wants the C to get more attack in his game and be more of a scoring threat."
I completely lost it. MAYBE with just a tad more icetime and not on the friggin 4th line.
deadhead
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Have you watched PEB?
He belonged on the 4th line because he was playing too hesitant with the puck, he was better without the puck.
PEB is still making the adjustment from the bigger rinks to the NHL.
I expect him to play much better in the second half of the season.
He belonged on the 4th line because he was playing too hesitant with the puck, he was better without the puck.
PEB is still making the adjustment from the bigger rinks to the NHL.
I expect him to play much better in the second half of the season.
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Cootsfanclub
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I agree with Berube in a sense that I've seen PEB pass the puck when he should be taking shots, i.e. the time he and Vinny were going in on a 2 on 1.
deadhead
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Given we didn't sign Cola until 3 defensemen went down, that's meaningless.
The fact he's "better" than our physical defensive defensemen points out the problem with Gus, you don't want to pair him with Streit or McDonald, so about the only option was L Schenn.
He went to Europe before Timonen went down, had they know they'd lose a mobile defenseman, things probably would have been different, but then they wouldn't have signed MDZ, so it turned out better for the team.
And it wouldn't surprise me if they brought him back from Russia if he added some strength and toughness (Russia is better for that than Europe). With guys like Morin, Hagg and Alt, he'd be a better fit (paired with a 200+ lb partner instead of a 190 lb guy).
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
if you are Gus why would you come back? especially with that idiot behind the bench. Gus was dicked around by Berube. I wouldn't come back as long as Berube was around if I was him.
Curufinwe
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There's two separate issues here.
Bellemare is better than Umberger and should be getting more ice time than him, not less.
Bellemare is being a little bit too cautious offensively, which is not surprising given that he's come on to a new team in a new league and a smaller ice surface. He has a really good shot and should just be firing away whenever he gets the chance.
Bellemare is in a new league and shoved on fourth/third lines with the utter trash of our lineup (Rinaldo, Lecavalier, Umberger). How can you honestly expect him to produce or be more aggressive? Give me a ****ing a break. He's better then both Umberger and Lecavalier and when he's been given a shot he's looked good and useful. He's getting dicked over by Berube in terms of opportunity.
Give me a break on Gustafsson. Point with him and Akeson is that a coach is supposed to play the best players and get the best production out of them. How is making Akeson a healthy scratch or putting him on an otherwise useless fourth line efficient and productive? It's well known that he has skill but little to no physicality or capability of grinding or gooning it up. So either give him time in the AHL where he excels (and he can help our prospects compete) or give him actual opportunity offensively (say in place of Lecavalier on any given PP). How is benching Gustafsson game-in and game-out no matter how good he is or bad the competition is fair or efficient or productive? Gustafsson looked better then half our D last year and advanced stats said the same thing too. You can't say he was a marginal D because not only was he not given the chance to prove that, but both the eye test and stats (and common sense really) said otherwise albeit in limited samples.
That's the ****ing point. Where is the efficiency or productivity in any of that? How is that getting the best use of your players or being fair to them?
Give me a break on Gustafsson. Point with him and Akeson is that a coach is supposed to play the best players and get the best production out of them. How is making Akeson a healthy scratch or putting him on an otherwise useless fourth line efficient and productive? It's well known that he has skill but little to no physicality or capability of grinding or gooning it up. So either give him time in the AHL where he excels (and he can help our prospects compete) or give him actual opportunity offensively (say in place of Lecavalier on any given PP). How is benching Gustafsson game-in and game-out no matter how good he is or bad the competition is fair or efficient or productive? Gustafsson looked better then half our D last year and advanced stats said the same thing too. You can't say he was a marginal D because not only was he not given the chance to prove that, but both the eye test and stats (and common sense really) said otherwise albeit in limited samples.
That's the ****ing point. Where is the efficiency or productivity in any of that? How is that getting the best use of your players or being fair to them?
