OT: Covid-19 (Part 50) You Better Watch Out

[canucklover123]

my buddy in Ny said basically everyone has it right now after that big santa event last weekend I believe

 

[Treb]

Requires 4 does within 18 months to MAYBE help with a variant is great?

Targeting a single protein was dumb from the start.

Because natural immunity and inactivated virus vaccine are doing so much better... oh wait they are not.

 

[canucklover123]

Not gunna lie, I have both vaccines and the booster but I can see how people will become more and more unwilling to put vaccines in their body, especially when no one has any idea what will come next.

Myself, I am getting skeptical and uneasy at the though of getting more vaccines down the line

 

[SOLR]

Because natural immunity and inactivated virus vaccine are doing so much better... oh wait they are not.

That's not really refuting his argument, you can do better.

@MasterD: It's probably true that targeting more proteins would have been better, but the drawback would have been time to market - and that's a huge drawback (remember that we did well in 2 waves with the current vaccines). I think the failure here is a policy-government one, they should have forced pharma in the formulation of a wider vaccine in parallel to the first to market and ahead of the multivalent ones that are coming. The mass production start of that v2. should have been this summer. Instead, pharma sold a "mass production efficiency" and a purely targeted approach (best approach to produce more overall shots). I'm not blaming that sell in hindsight, it was a very difficult problem.

 

[SOLR]

I am, but nothing about Israel.
It's been almost two years that I've been trying to land a good position back in my industry, but now that's yet again taken a step back.
I had to recycle myself working sales in the car industry, which I strongly dislike, and that field is also going through unprecedent times with global inventory shortages due to supply chain issues and microchips...so there's not much to sell and well...you get paid less than min wage if you don't sell.

Life has been a real challenge and now it feels like I'm going back yet again. It's like I'm in quicksand.

Remote work software sales.

 

[Tyson]

Not gunna lie, I have both vaccines and the booster but I can see how people will become more and more unwilling to put vaccines in their body, especially when no one has any idea what will come next.

Myself, I am getting skeptical and uneasy at the though of getting more vaccines down the line

Yep I am done with needles.
Maybe therapeutics should be pushed harder. There are solutions that could be introduced that aren't.

 

[SOLR]

Yep I am done with needles.
Maybe therapeutics should be pushed harder. There are solutions that could be introduced that aren't.

I'm the solutions guy and I approve of this message (but don't be done with needles, that's just being discriminatory of a class of solution, there will be much better needles coming).

I think the most important class of solutions that needs to be used a lot more is at the "early symptom" stage.

 

[Treb]

That's not really refuting his argument, you can do better.

@MasterD: It's probably true that targeting more proteins would have been better, but the drawback would have been time to market - and that's a huge drawback (remember that we did well in 2 waves with the current vaccines). I think the failure here is a policy-government one, they should have forced pharma in the formulation of a wider vaccine in parallel to the first to market and ahead of the multivalent ones that are coming. The mass production start of that v2. should have been this summer. Instead, pharma sold a "mass production efficiency" and a purely targeted approach (best approach to produce more overall shots). I'm not blaming that sell in hindsight, it was a very difficult problem.

Vaccine targeting multiple proteins (and natural immunity who targets multiple proteins) are not faring better than vaccines targeting a single protein.

I don't see how this doesn't refute his point.

Edit: Also what are you going on about it would have taken more time to make it to the market? Including 2 protein in a mRNA vaccine is not hard at all. Moderna has a 5 protein vaccine in the work (SARS-2, 3*Flu, RSV)

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

not really

last year we had nothing except grocery store and essential services.

Legault will make his announcement tomorrow... It will most likely be the same...

 

[SOLR]

Vaccine targeting multiple proteins (and natural immunity who targets multiple proteins) are not faring better than vaccines targeting a single protein.

I don't see how this doesn't refute his point.

There are no MRNAs targeting multiple proteins. The killed virus Chinese vaccines have others issues. There is a logical gap between these 2 solutions, that's how it doesn't refute his point.

Natural immunity has many degrees and they are not easy to measure at the scale of a population.

 

[Treb]

There are no MRNAs targeting multiple proteins. The killed virus Chinese vaccines have others issues. There is a logical gap between these 2 solutions, that's how it doesn't refute his point.

I'm still failing to see how it would change anything to include another protein. It would have failed against Omicron nonetheless.

There's a reason why everyone is doing spike vaccines.

 

[MasterD]

I'm still failing to see how it would change anything to include another protein. It would have failed against Omicron nonetheless.

There's a reason why everyone is doing spike vaccines.

Not if one of the viruses' proteins isn't hit with a mutation.

 

[Deebs]

US Army Creates Single Vaccine Effective Against All COVID & SARS Variants, Researchers Say

 

[covfefe]

Now compare it to decades of revenue for chronic medication.

Also, having 3-4 recurring vaccines (like the quoted post was saying) would require to quadruple their installations to follow the demand. One vaccine is way better.

Apologies, I had a busy day and couldn't give your post the measured response it deserves.

First, let's acknowledge that you're more knowledgeable than I am in terms of how these vaccines work by a million lightyears.

With that said, I think that we need to focus on the crux of the argument. And continuing care isn't it: you said that vaccines aren't a honeypot. I disagree with that assessment and think it's clear that times have changed. Whether right or wrong, participants in the public markets like Pfizer are incentivized to perform on a short-term basis. Thus, 3-4 recurring vaccines with an otherwise mitigated cost basis will always represent a better outcome for Pfizer than 1 omni-vax. 3-4 periods to book revs vs. 1 - this is an easier decision for all PM's and PM's rule the world.

So I don't think we can navigate around the fact that this has been a historic windfall for Pfizer + Moderna. The ledger shows that short-term movements like these can set pharmaceutical providers up for many moons. These scenarios allow them to acquire IP for low multiples, which is the name of the game.

If you don't believe me, look at what the Baker Bros are doing here...betting offshoots!

In any event, the #'s I posted are staggering. In a year where most of the constituents in IBB are significantly down. Something like 200+ are down YTD.

So, your post said vaccines aren't a honeypot and I disagree. This is the most profitable YOY pharma product ever created.

We can roll into why AbbVie is fighting a biosimilar Humira on another day, and I'd again like to mention that I absolutely respect your knowledge on this topic. But I was trained to read balance sheets and follow flows and the proof is in the pudding. This is a wildly profitable scenario for both of Pfizer + Moderna, likely the key contributor to them racing this thing out. PV vs. FV is a key consideration for any capital allocator and PV always wins.

It's also because of what you said in a roundabout way - diabetes is profitable, heart disease is profitable, arthritis is profitable, etc...can't kill off your constituents and eat cake too.

None of this is to mention the revs associated w/ testing which are presently tremendous...

pro vaccine. please, anti-vax people, don't like this post

 

[PavelBrendl]

Back in the shit again eh, guys?
A boatload of new trainees all got Covid and I had one working with my crew yesterday. Just in time to f*** up the holidays.

Merry/happy whatever, fellas!

 

[solidaritypucks]

Yep I am done with needles.
Maybe therapeutics should be pushed harder. There are solutions that could be introduced that aren't.

Therapeutic treatment options were smeared, censored and dragged through the mud in a strategic fashion by various corporate and political organizations. The most blatant example being when the 2015 noble-prize winning drug for Physiology or Medicine with billions of human doses administered was declared a horse de-wormer and banned from treatment virtually overnight.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Does anyone think there’s a chance we can get COVID Omicron by taking the metro?

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Does anyone think there’s a chance we can get COVID Omicron by taking the metro?

There's always a chance

 

[AlexGretzchenvid]

Mmmmm covid....


So guys....

MSN reported that Pfizer claims that a 3rd dose has "total" protection against Omicaron...

Yet reports in the same article that Omicron is still very unkown..


If you guys don't wake up sooner than later..


We will be living in a society where Blue is Black and red is green because your told so.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Mmmmm covid....


So guys....

MSN reported that Pfizer claims that a 3rd dose has "total" protection against Omicaron...

Yet reports in the same article that Omicron is still very unkown..


If you guys don't wake up sooner than later..


We will be living in a society where Blue is Black and red is green because your told so.

you need to work on your run-on sentences my dude

 

[cajmonkey]

Like NHL games, my families Christmas has been postponed until at least January 7th. Nephew and sister-in-law in Montreal both got sick and tested positive for COVID last week. Nephew was hit much harder than SIL who had 2 shots + her booster. Then one of my nephews in Ottawa had 2 high risk contacts last week at school so they are in isolation until the 27th. Fun times!!

Sucks that your Christmas plans were postponed due to family members getting sick. I hope they get well soon.

Fortunately for most, Christmas will still be celebrated. The government can't cancel it.

 

[Tyson]

Therapeutic treatment options were smeared, censored and dragged through the mud in a strategic fashion by various corporate and political organizations. The most blatant example being when the 2015 noble-prize winning drug for Physiology or Medicine with billions of human doses administered was declared a horse de-wormer and banned from treatment virtually overnight.

It it has no intention of slowing down.
Sadly, many people have died because they weren't allowed to use products that big pharma couldn't capitalize on.
Since when does a pharmacist have the right to over ride a doctor?

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Sucks that your Christmas plans were postponed due to family members getting sick. I hope they get well soon.

Fortunately for most, Christmas will still be celebrated. The government can't cancel it.

They can't cancel christmas, but they definitely can put unbearable conditions to celebrate it, at least that's what I think Quebec PM (Legault) will do today at 1PM.

 

[cajmonkey]

They can't cancel christmas, but they definitely can put unbearable conditions to celebrate it, at least that's what I think Quebec PM (Legault) will do today at 1PM.

He can put all the conditions he wants. As I tell my kids "Always look both ways when crossing the street as lights/stop signs don't make cars magically stop".

 

[SOLR]

I'm still failing to see how it would change anything to include another protein. It would have failed against Omicron nonetheless.

There's a reason why everyone is doing spike vaccines.

Really? most of the mutations are on the spike. Targeting say 2 more proteins would have made sure a lot more mutations were necessary for escape.

See, you had an answer with more context. Can you say more about that reason to target the spike vs. another surface protein?