Could we pinpoint the beginning of the implosion?

[Embiid]

The Emminger trade, from what I recall, we played the Caps in the playoffs prior to that, and Eminger so impressed Holmgren by getting benched he just had to have him

It is true.....Holmgren said he was impressed with Eminger's play in the playoffs....hence why he thought it a bonus to get a young NHL ready D man with a right hand shot and playoff experience under his belt already. He was gloating....

It is these blunders that set franchises back a decade or more...

Again..this guy should not be an advisor!

 

[Embiid]

Btw...as far as Pronger....he already had a lot of miles on him before the eye injury terminated his career. If you recall, by the 2010 finals his knee was pretty gimpy and I think he had back problems. The leadership void was the biggest loss though since Richards was still not the best off ice leader and eventually became a druggie. His offseason training was also horrid ...never worked on his conditioning or honed his faceoff skills. By the 2010 finals he was pretty spent and Holmgren afterwards called him out by saying his conditioning needed to improve. Leino and Briere were carrying that series....Leighton, Richards, and Carter were laggards.

 

[JVR21]

You're leaving out a very important factor..

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

The Flyers have not only failed to develop the existing skills of these players, they outright ruined/are ruining many of them.

I did not leave this out! "Our scouting and/or development is some of the worst in the league."

 

[JXC]

I still get red-assed about this, and my friends give me a hard time about it... but they aren't Flyers fans.
Chi got a franchise-grade difference maker, we got the pigeon.

It was that lottery that convinced me that Philadelphia needs an exorcism.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It was that lottery that convinced me that Philadelphia needs an exorcism.

And then Howie went and sold all of our souls for a Super Bowl.

 

[deadhead]

And then Howie went and sold all of our souls for a Super Bowl.

And we'd do it again!

 

[sigma six]

It was that lottery that convinced me that Philadelphia needs an exorcism.

Right? And then that same player goes on to bounce us out of the Cup finals with the game-winner a couple of years later.

 

[eramosat]

there is no such thing as the beginning of the implosion. sports franchises go through cycles, naturally. this is a horrible, unnatural part of a cycle I wish they didn't have to go through.

but being acquired by a faceless cable conglomerate with more interest in about 3 dozen corporate goals than fielding a competitive and fan-worthy professional hockey team, with no internal expertise to meet that goal, nor the creation of any professional division or staff to develop that expertise internally would be kinda telling. in retrospect.

 

[Halladay]

No being able resign Biron and then Emery getting hurt. They win the cup with just average goaltending.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

There was no implosion. They're just a middling franchise.

 

[Gert B Frobe]

No being able resign Biron and then Emery getting hurt. They win the cup with just average goaltending.

Game 1 was a total shit show. Niemi was bad but Leighton was another level of bad. Flyers would have won that series in 6 with good goaltending. I recall watching that and thinking they just blew a huge opportunity.

 

[deadhead]

You're leaving out a very important factor..

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

The Flyers have not only failed to develop the existing skills of these players, they outright ruined/are ruining many of them.

This is a red herring. Their prospects haven't under performed relative to their draft position (other than the flops, and talent was the issue, or health).
Frost hasn't been stifled, he's struggling the way a #27 pick normally struggles at the beginning of his career.
TK is playing fine, especially for a #24 pick.
Sanheim is a solid 2nd pair D-man, good value at #17
Farabee is more than good enough for #14.
The one player who has faltered is Provorov, and in hindsight he may have been an overdraft based on his early physical development, i.e., he is the same player he was as a rookie (excusing this season, which I believe is probably an anomaly).

The point about two way players has some merit after the 1st rd, you're always looking at players with flaws, Flyers tended to put size and physicality over skill, at least until recently, so you get Ginning, Ratcliffe, Laberge, Allison, etc. in the 2nd rd. Bunnaman, Dove-McFalls, Vorobyev, Twarynski, St Ivany et al in the 3rd and 4th rounds. Fletcher at least went for York, Brink, Andrae, Tuomaala, Millman the last few years.

 

[themilosh]

The introduction of the salary cap; then Pronger’s injury; then the failed rebuild by Hextall; then the prospects not living up to their potential( I fault prospects, Flyers development and scouting, all); then Fletcher failing to right the ship; the players not caring after being in an apathetic organization, lame coaches, etc. Ultimately I point to the lockout though

Notice mtl in the same mess.. hey, havent both teams recycled the same coaches?

 

[Henry Miller]

Notice mtl in the same mess.. hey, havent both teams recycled the same coaches?

I wonder how much of the recycle coach carousel is due to GM’s being on a short leash. A GM usually gets two coaching hires in an ultra competitive field. I’d imagine many GM’s would be wary of gambling on a rookie coach.

 

[kudymen]

Lol I saw this on Twitter earlier today and immediately remembered this thread

 

[Beef Invictus]

The implosion and collapse into a shit singularity (shitularity) occurred the very moment Fletcher signed Hayes' friend Yandle with the promise that, no matter what and no matter how he played, he wouldn't face any accountability.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

When you really think about it it probably boils down to Lake Tahoe in all honesty.

 

[ajgoal]

I

When you really think about it it probably boils down to Lake Tahoe in all honesty.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it began when I started following hockey.

 

[deadhead]

While this season is a shit show, the problem isn't this season but the cycle of playoffs/no playoffs we've gone through since 2011-12.
And it all comes down to Snider/Holmgren not wanting to rebuild after the Carter-Richards trades.
Then firing Hextall b/c he lacked a "bias for action."

Next year with Ellis, Couts and Hayes back, maybe even Allison and Laczynski healthy, Brink and maybe a few other young players in the lineup, they probably will make the playoffs again.

The problem is they'll look at that potential team over the summer and think "gee, one or two moves and we're a contender again."
Which is what has produced this cycle of mediocrity.

What they should be thinking is after a TDL "massacre," and retaining money to move JVR, they'll have the cap room to make smart deals to add young talent, focus on building depth and drafting a couple top starters the next two years. They don't have to tear it down, they do need to refrain from making short-term moves that keep them mired in mediocrity.

If they can add a veteran on a bargain 2yr deal, sure, but neither a scrub nor an overpay. They're not going to be bad enough to pick in the top 10 again, so nothing wrong with moves to make the playoffs IF it doesn't hurt them in the long run. But no trading draft picks for over-30 veterans or rentals. No making a splash overpaying a "name" FA.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Signing Beezer over Cujo

 

[Fire Tortorella]

I still blame the Michael Leighton contract and him not disclosing his injury to the team.

I believe that used to be one of @Beef Invictus 's favorites as well.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I still blame the Michael Leighton contract and him not disclosing his injury to the team.

I believe that used to be one of @Beef Invictus 's favorites as well.

Still is! Set in motion a true chain of shit.

 

[Harhis]

(They essentially forced themselves into a rebuild on the fly while guys like Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, etc. were in their early to mid 20’s which in theory is when you should get the most value from a player from an on ice standpoint & a contract standpoint.

It's crazy to think they couldn't build anything around that core.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

When the imbeciles ran Bobrovsky out of town!