Rumor: Could the Islanders be in on Laine?

[Bones45]

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa big fella ,,,easy now as I believe you misunderstood my post completely = didn't you post this --->"Bailey for Laine straight up is the only acceptable deal." <------------- this is what I was referring to when I said "are you sure you want to overpay for him ". Bones you do not have the market cornered on disliking Josh Bailey my post was SARCASM

LOL.. so sorry -- completely missed that. And kudos to you! Good one!

 

[Merrrlin]

Just saw that - he mentions Flyers and I believe Flyers have the pieces to pull it off - Nolan Patrick ++

Yikes, that's a sketchy centrepeice for Laine, unless the +'s are Provorov, Ghost or Sanheim.

 

[crasherino]

In case anybody was wondering IB does not have us in on Laine.

He may very well have some sources around the league. But unless he has something coming from Winnipeg (unlikely that a NY-based bookie would have tight sources up there) or high up in house in the Islanders (NOBODY has that), I doubt he could have info on all the current discussions.

I'm not saying he doesn't have some legit info - he probably is connected to a number of agents/players, etc. that allows him to break certain news. But that doesn't mean has the entire picture where he can say that something ISN'T happening.

That being said, the Islanders may already know the asking price from WPG and they may have already decided that its a non-starter and nothing else of note needs to be discussed. You'd have to think that the Islanders - at some point in this saga - at least discussed the idea of Laine.

 

[CBG]

LOL.. so sorry -- completely missed that. And kudos to you! Good one!

No worries Bones ,,,,,,that is of course until we see Bailey on the first line along with the power play again

 

[SI]

Yikes, that's a sketchy centrepeice for Laine, unless the +'s are Provorov, Ghost or Sanheim.

Patrick, Ghost, and prospect or pick.

They need top 4 D and a 2C - maybe prospect is Rubtsov or the pick is a 2nd

 

[Hockey Crazy]

At least he could never grow that beard again...

 

[MJF]

Maybe the OP could change this thread title to SHOULD the Isles Be In on Laine?

Answer:
YES YES YES

 

[xIsle]

Patrick, Ghost, and prospect or pick.

They need top 4 D and a 2C - maybe prospect is Rubtsov or the pick is a 2nd

Patrick and Gostisbehere are a mediocre return in my opinion for Laine. I hope the Jets will never do that. Rubstov is also a frankly ordinary prospect. A nice skewer of shit! ... The Jets must demand Provorov or Sanheim. And Morgan Frost is a much more interesting prospect than Rubstov.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Patrick and Gostisbehere are a mediocre return in my opinion for Laine.

I dunno. That seems like a pretty nice deal, depending on how you much value Gost as a PP/scoring specialist.

 

[crasherino]

I dunno. That seems like a pretty nice deal, depending on how you much value Gost as a PP/scoring specialist.

That was my thought. They'd be getting back a less dynamic but very talented 20 year old Center in Patrick and a legit top 4 offensive minded defenseman plus whatever else they'd be picking up. That's a pretty good haul if you HAVE to trade a star. I guess Ghost is a pretty polarizing player though.

Laine is going to be the best player in any deal - that's a given. 2 young roster mainstays plus a pick/prospect is pretty good. I'm not sure that the Islanders could beat that package. Or would want to.

 

[Merrrlin]

Patrick and Gostisbehere are a mediocre return in my opinion for Laine. I hope the Jets will never do that. Rubstov is also a frankly ordinary prospect. A nice skewer of ****! ... The Jets must demand Provorov or Sanheim. And Morgan Frost is a much more interesting prospect than Rubstov.

You think that's mediocre? Some people in this thread wouldn't be willing to offer Pulock or Toews...

 

[MJF]

I dunno. That seems like a pretty nice deal, depending on how you much value Gost as a PP/scoring specialist.

It’s how little I value Nolan Patrick.

 

[xIsle]

I dunno. That seems like a pretty nice deal, depending on how you much value Gost as a PP/scoring specialist.

When I look at the Jets defense brigade, I find it already suspicious, not to say rather porous. I may underestimate it, but I don't think adding Gostibehere in this line-up will make things better for them. In my opinion, Provorov or Sanheim would be a better acquisition for them.

 

[xIsle]

You think that's mediocre? Some people in this thread wouldn't be willing to offer Pulock or Toews...

I know!... But I don't think it changes much the fact that the duo Patrick-Gostisbehere does not seem to me enough for a player like Laine.

 

[leeroggy]

The Pro's and Con's of pursuing Laine:

Pro's as a player

Proven Goal Scorer
6' 5" RH RW
Was actually a plus player his first two years
Produced at every level coming up and made the NHL right away, and won't turn 22 until after the next regular season.
If his shooting percentage held steady to his 1st two years he would have scored well over 40 goals last year.
Even after a bad regular 2019 his playoff was 3G/1A in 6 games, pretty much his career regular season stats.

Con's as a player

Had a horrible time last year with consistency
Bad +/- last year
Will likely be expensive to sign
Shooting percentage fell off last year but number of shots on goal was the same as the previous year.
Questions on how well he plays defense but was it a one-year thing more than a trend? Lots of pure goal scorers have that reputation throughout NHL history.

On balance, it's hard to NOT want him, AS a player. Cost versus benefit is not as easy to calculate for us as for many other teams. He certainly fills a NEED, but at what cost? Will he be the next Mike Gartner? Tony McKegney? A consistent 30-goal scorer who rarely won anything? Brett Hull had that rep for awhile, so did Ovie. But finally they both won their Cups too. I don't need to remind everyone of why Mike Bossy fell to #15 in the draft.

Did his pending RFA (having witnessed the player he was compared EQUALLY to in Austin Matthews sign that monster deal) get into his head and did he start to 'squeeze the stick tighter' as the saying goes in the sport? Maybe so. That doesn't excuse sloppy defense. Paul Maurice was not exactly known for his player development at any of his NHL stops, has he? More of a high-control type like Hitchcock who doesn't always communicate very well. And he's NEVER been hired/appointed to coach a Canadian National team as head coach. I think you have to throw out some of last year in that context.

So it comes down to, 'how much do you pay him and how much do you need to trade for him'. That's the defining point more than 'do we want him playing for us?'.

Of all the proposals on this thread the one that might a) hurt the most to many of our fans and b) be the most attractive to Winnipeg, is the Pulock swap.

If Dobson shows well right away that makes this a little more attractive to consider. As a HOCKEY TRADE. It will hurt financially THIS YEAR but Pulock, if he continues his ascendancy to #1 RD, will cost probably at least $6 million per year, starting in 2020-21, and that might be low-balling it. And having Boychuck take up a LOT of cap space on the defense to be pretty much the 2nd/3rd liner that will likely not play all the games has to be factored in.

Of course, we have no idea what Winnipeg is asking anyhow. But if you are committed to Pulock as your #1 then Dobson SHOULD be looked at as a big time chip since he hasn't proven anything yet. If this was Laine for Dobson and Bailey (who also becomes expendable now that Eberle is also signed for a RW) you now cut $5 million out of our cap hit, depending on any other pieces.

It's not impossible to craft a deal but how much do you sign him for? The last few signings (today's Werenski deal was even more eye-opening than Gardner) have shown a trend down and maybe if we can do a similar thing where he gets 3 years and something like $7-8 million per while he's gaining flexibility in the future? I think you HAVE TO DO THIS if the cost is Bailey and Dobson.

So, that's my two cents.

 

[leeroggy]

Fair points from both of you. We are all not saying that he is a bad player and we are all especially saying that we desperately need his skillset.

It just seems like such a crazy price to pay. That's my main sticking point. Not that he wouldn't be a huge add, but that it's foolish from an asset management standpoint. I don't see us one move away (and question whether Laine is a last-move kind of guy), and I'm not sure if ultimately Laine is more of a lateral move if we have to mortgage a lot of our future. Maybe it's the current nature of RFA contracts? I'd be all over this if he would be looking at a bridge deal that RFAs were taking a few years ago. But to immediately spend that much on him AND lose young players that are a big part of our future is just too much for me.

I personally would rather build around a player like Pulock, who's been mentioned as a trade chip in this thread, than a player like Laine. I'm not saying they have equal value -- I'm talking generally. Looking at what historically has translated to winning NHL seasons as far as importance and what development arcs for someone like Pulock and his age and his position and his flaws versus someone like Laine and his age and his position and his flaws. Streaky one-dimensional wingers can flame out pretty hard. Pulock might not have a crazy high ceiling (though who knows, he still might), but he will be in the NHL for a long time. ****, we have a highly offensive one-dimesional winger in our system that can't even crack our damn line-up because he's an overall net negative. I'm not comparing Ho Sang to Laine directly, especially when the latter has proven much much more at the NHL level, but over the next 5 years I am confident that I will not be questioning whether Pulock is a net-negative for whatever team he's on.

A lot of people thought we were one player away when we took Bossy in his draft year and that he was the final piece, but it took the Goring trade to put us over the top. NONE of us know if we are one player or more away at this point. We finished FIFTH overall last year, how do any of know we aren't one player away like Laine from a legit Cup run? Another 40-goal scorer against Carolina might well have made the difference in the 1st 3 games and then it's a semifinal slot against Boston.

 

[leeroggy]

One other thing to think about with Laine . . if WE had drafted him and the three years were played under Capuano & Weight would we be calling him a flawed player or would we be pointing the finger at the coaches? Pretty simple to answer that question.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Yeah, who needs a 40 goal scorer, amirite?

If I correctly counted (and I believe I did) from Dec to the end of last season he played in 58 games. He scored 9 goals.

His shooting percentage has always been ridiculously high and we all knew he'd come down to Earth.

He's a good player, but if you want to give up 4 1st rounders, overpay for him, AND lose Barzal, Pulock, or Toews for him...I'd say you're severely overvaluing him.

We have to look at the big picture and thank god we have a GM and coach willing to do that.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Pros: We get a streaky ~35 goal scorer.

Cons: We lose 4 1st rounders, overpay said player (or Winnipeg easily matches), takes cap space away from Barzal, Pulock, and Toews.

Can anybody name an offer sheet where the player switched teams and it actually worked out for that team? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

[crasherino]

If I correctly counted (and I believe I did) from Dec to the end of last season he played in 58 games. He scored 9 goals.

His shooting percentage has always been ridiculously high and we all knew he'd come down to Earth.

He's a good player, but if you want to give up 4 1st rounders, overpay for him, AND lose Barzal, Pulock, or Toews for him...I'd say you're severely overvaluing him.

We have to look at the big picture and thank god we have a GM and coach willing to do that.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one is looking to give up 4 first rounders AND Barzal/Pulock. I've seen some strawmen in my time, but this one might take the cake.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

It’s how little I value Nolan Patrick.

I get that. Maybe the Jets feel the same way. But, a 20 year old #2 overall center with tremendous upside is pretty good value in general.

 

[The Real JT]

A lot of people thought we were one player away when we took Bossy in his draft year and that he was the final piece, but it took the Goring trade to put us over the top. NONE of us know if we are one player or more away at this point. We finished FIFTH overall last year, how do any of know we aren't one player away like Laine from a legit Cup run? Another 40-goal scorer against Carolina might well have made the difference in the 1st 3 games and then it's a semifinal slot against Boston.

The Isles took a huge unexpected step forward last year. Let's be serious, they overachieved based on their talent. The planets would have had to align perfectly for them to win the Cup. I like your optimism and like you, I let my my mind wander there after the first round sweep of the Pens.

We weren't really close against the Canes. Even if we beat the Canes with more offense, we still wouldn't have gotten past the Bruins. They manhandled us all year and frankly we matched up terribly against them. Still a great season for the Isles nonetheless.

I'd love to get Laine and I'm not far off from where you are on trading Pulock + prospects/picks(s) in a deal for him. I completely agree that not having to pay Pulock a lucrative RFA contract is the key to making this work. Let's also not forget that if we added Laine and alternatively gave up Dobson rather than Pulock, our expansion draft protection list would be adversely affected.

 

[QuadDeuces]

IMO, the only things that shouldn't be on the table for Laine are Barzal, Pulock, and Toews.

 

[duster19]

IMO, the only things that shouldn't be on the table for Laine are Barzal, Pulock, and Toews.

Totally agree. Maybe Sorokin as well.

We aren’t getting Laine though.

This offseason reminds me of the ‘we need goaltending’ years when everyone knew we needed goaltending yet we did nothing....and then surprisingly our goalies ended up sucking.

 

[dlawong]

I think Isles may be holding cap space for potentially going after a big UFA center or top pairing D next summer. They also need money to resign Barzal & Pulock. A trade definitely is going to happen next season to make room for this. Go google & find out who may be available and think about this. Now Isles will have a new permanent rink ready in 2 years with a very good coach & a well known GM, I think signing an UFA will be easier next summer. They will have to make some roster moves or none of this will happen. Of course if you can land an UFA without give up too much future asset like Rag did, then that will be the best way to go.

By the way even Laine did not get Jets into the Stanley cup final so not sure just landing him will get Isles there, considering all the other top talents Jets already had on that team. He will help Isles make the playoff but will not be good enough to bring the SC home. Also he will eat up a lot of cap space and limit Isles negotiating room with both Barzal & Pulock & will cost Isles their cost controlled D depth.

Also please note that in most cases, elite centers, D and a hot G peaking at the right time is the recipe for SC. Wingers can help but they are rarely the key. Chicago and 2018 Caps may be the only exceptions. There is just too much responsibility lies with the C. For the wingers unless they can pop in goals like popcorn on PP, they are not enough to get you the SC by themselves. Also a strong bottom 2 line gritty performance can be the difference between two top contending teams with equally deadly top 6.