Speculation: Could the Golden Bears beat some AHL teams?

[Chet Manley]

I was cheering for the Bears after half a period. So smart positionally/without the puck and showed how smaller players can be effective along the boards.(I'm 5'10"... perhaps living vicariously) Great game.

Just based on yesterday's game: they would have trouble beating AHL goalies with the velocity of their shots. Would also be a very small AHL team against players the same age.

 

[SK13]

If you rolled 82 games out, they might have 10 wins. Maybe.

The better question is how would they do in the ECHL.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I get that the Golden Bears did well against Yale and Dartmouth.

However I always wondered what would happen against a big time program like Boston College, Wisconsin or North Dakota.

 

[Replacement*]

Exactly this.

Think about how many of these Golden Bears players will even make it to the AHL after their University career is over. Not a lot.

Let's take Sean Ringrose as an example. Golden Bears leading scorer in 2013-14, couldn't even make the AHL the following year. He played in the EIHL (Britain) and Austria. Second-tier European leagues, and he didn't even do particularly well.

You can go down the list of standouts at the U of A who toiled in the ECHL or worse. Chad Klassen, Derek Ryan, Eric Hunter, Ian McDonald, etc. etc. And the goaltending is definitely not AHL calibre.

They'd probably win 15-20 out of 76 games.

This is odd logic. People get University degrees so they don't have to play out their lives being failed pro hockey players toiling in minor leagues chasing some false dream.

Ringrose in particular was talented enough to play where he chose. A lot of people that want to experience the world, and that have imagination, choose Europe to play in. I would too.

As per "he didn't even do particularly well in Dundee he was among the leading players on the club in Pts/game and in G/G.

 

[thadd]

Nope. They'd get blown out of the water. They played a bunch of Oilers who aren't used to playing together. If the Oilers had been playing together for 20+ games it would have been 12-0.

 

[Fourier]

Their advantage against Juniors is age and experience. That disappears against an AHL team. Then the skill differential comes into play. And for the most part it is significant. Only the very best CIS players would make an AHL team. But even then most of these players would be below average AHL'er.

 

[Replacement*]

I get that the Golden Bears did well against Yale and Dartmouth.

However I always wondered what would happen against a big time program like Boston College, Wisconsin or North Dakota.

Yale won it all in 2013. The Bears spanked them in 2014 and with the Bears playing without their #1 goalie. The Bears have beat big time NCAA programs before.

Stauffer for a long time has also suggested something odd about the NCAA teams never wanting to come here to play. The matches always occur in the US.

 

[NHLFAN82]

Yale won it all in 2013. The Bears spanked them in 2014 and with the Bears playing without their #1 goalie. The Bears have beat big time NCAA programs before.

Stauffer for a long time has also suggested something odd about the NCAA teams never wanting to come here to play. The matches always occur in the US.

What big time NCAA programs have they beat? I don't know much about the history.

The Yale players still playing in the Fall of 2014 would have been a freshman or sophomore on the title winning team. Not likely the reason they won the Frozen four.

Also note that this was the first game of the year for Yale. U of A had already played 9 games.

The Bears do have a 26-54-6 record against NCAA teams so lets not go on about how they would dominate the NCAA.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What big time NCAA programs have they beat? I don't know much about the history.

The Yale players still playing in the Fall of 2014 would have been a freshman or sophomore on the title winning team. Not likely the reason they won the Frozen four.

Also note that this was the first game of the year for Yale. U of A had already played 9 games.

The Bears do have a 26-54-6 record against NCAA teams so lets not go on about how they would dominate the NCAA.

Yes, that record probably doesn't represent the modern day. From the Article you're referencing.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7610/the_state_of_cis_part3_cis_vs_ncaa/

Going back to our CIS example of Alberta, the Golden Bears under coach Rob Daum actually have a very favorable record of 6-3 against NCAA opponents including some schools that are traditional very tough.

The Daum-led Golden Bears beat both St. Cloud (4-2) and North Dakota (2-1 OT) in 1996-97, the year the Fighting Sioux went on to become national champions. The following season Alberta swept both Alaska teams in two-goal victories. In 1999-2000 the Golden Bears downed Denver 5-4 before earning a split with Yale. Daum’s last two contests with NCAA teams came in October of 2001 and both were losses, one to Denver and the other to Colorado College.

Basically the U of A Golden Bears hockey team would be one of the best College Hockey teams in all of North America.

 

[Replacement*]

Yes, that record probably doesn't represent the modern day. From the Article you're referencing.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7610/the_state_of_cis_part3_cis_vs_ncaa/



Basically the U of A Golden Bears hockey team would be one of the best College Hockey teams in all of North America.

Thanks Jimmi.

Again to add that all of the interlocking games are road games. The NCAA teams consider themselves above coming to Clare Drake arena for some reason. One can only think the Bears would do even better in home tilts.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Informal poll:

Just how good is this team?

I'm getting lit up in the prospects forum by Flame and Leaf fans for saying that the Golden Bears could very probably beat some of the teams in the AHL.

No chance. They are the leftovers. The players who never got or couldnt get minor league contracts or elc's. Still very good players, but the ahl players are better.

 

[Replacement*]

Nope. They'd get blown out of the water. They played a bunch of Oilers who aren't used to playing together. If the Oilers had been playing together for 20+ games it would have been 12-0.

Silly post. The Bears have a mostly revamped D with 3 star D graduating last season.

The Oilers had multiple players playing their second year in "Oiler rookies" tournaments and have had a couple weeks together and with it being their 4th GP.

It was the first Bears 3rd game of the season.

The Oilers rookies team also has the benefit of a stacked lineup with McDavid and with last years first rounders Nurse, and Drai included. As rookie squads go this was an allstar club that could put out a WC PP.

Kudos to the bears for hanging close in this one for 50mins.

 

[NHLFAN82]

Yes, that record probably doesn't represent the modern day. From the Article you're referencing.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7610/the_state_of_cis_part3_cis_vs_ncaa/



Basically the U of A Golden Bears hockey team would be one of the best College Hockey teams in all of North America.

Thanks for the article. I got the record from an article on the U of A website.

So you are saying because of a 2-1 OT victory in 1996 against the eventual champion the Golden Bears would be one of the best college teams?

NCAA hockey is growing - in 1999 20% of players in the NHL played NCAA. Now it is 31%. Quality of players is going up.

 

[NHLFAN82]

Thanks Jimmi.

Again to add that all of the interlocking games are road games. The NCAA teams consider themselves above coming to Clare Drake arena for some reason. One can only think the Bears would do even better in home tilts.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/7610/the_state_of_cis_part3_cis_vs_ncaa/

It begs the questions as to why the CIS schools are the ones doing all the traveling. The answer is two-fold; cost and NCAA regulations. The host team of these international exhibitions must cover the travel expenses of the visiting squad and the NCAA schools have vastly deeper wallets compared to their CIS cousins. Then considering the “single international opponent†rule that Guy Gadownsky mentioned earlier, it becomes clear why the American schools don’t come north.

 

[NHLFAN82]

Silly post. The Bears have a mostly revamped D with 3 star D graduating last season.

The Oilers had multiple players playing their second year in "Oiler rookies" tournaments and have had a couple weeks together and with it being their 4th GP.

It was the first Bears 3rd game of the season.

The Oilers rookies team also has the benefit of a stacked lineup with McDavid and with last years first rounders Nurse, and Drai included. As rookie squads go this was an allstar club that could put out a WC PP.

Kudos to the bears for hanging close in this one for 50mins.

Yet you don't give Yale the same benefit.

U of A had played 9 games before they played Yale. It was Yale's first game.

You also try to beef up the win by stating that Yale won the title 2 rosters ago.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Thanks for the article. I got the record from an article on the U of A website.

So you are saying because of a 2-1 OT victory in 1996 against the eventual champion the Golden Bears would be one of the best college teams?

NCAA hockey is growing - in 1999 20% of players in the NHL played NCAA. Now it is 31%. Quality of players is going up.

The NCAA will have higher end individual players, (Eichel, Hanifin, etc), the CIS teams (the U of A for example) will likely have better teams on the whole. They're older and more experienced former CHL players, so they are used to playing at a level as high as the NCAA, they are very good players from that league, and they are older (Instead of 18-23, 22-27) which tends to have more developed talents.

 

[Replacement*]

Yet you don't give Yale the same benefit.

U of A had played 9 games before they played Yale. It was Yale's first game.

You also try to beef up the win by stating that Yale won the title 2 rosters ago.

What is your point. The questioning you yourself posed was whether Golden Bears had beat top rank NCAA clubs.

Denver, St Cloud, Yale, North Dakota etc not good enough for you?

Your question was answered.

now you bring a bunch of circumstantial well and what if posturing?

 

[NHLFAN82]

What is your point. The questioning you yourself posed was whether Golden Bears had beat top rank NCAA clubs.

Denver, St Cloud, Yale, North Dakota etc not good enough for you?

Your question was answered.

now you bring a bunch of circumstantial well and what if posturing?

Circumstances matter. If they do not, why would you go on about how the Oiler rookies had played together and the Bears had not? Same thing.

 

[NHLFAN82]

The NCAA will have higher end individual players, (Eichel, Hanifin, etc), the CIS teams (the U of A for example) will likely have better teams on the whole. They're older and more experienced former CHL players, so they are used to playing at a level as high as the NCAA, they are very good players from that league, and they are older (Instead of 18-23, 22-27) which tends to have more developed talents.

Fair enough thanks. So it is basically a waste of time trying to compare the leagues. Apples and oranges.

 

[Replacement*]

Circumstances matter. If they do not, why would you go on about how the Oiler rookies had played together and the Bears had not? Same thing.

So your question was answered and you still doubt just the same. Sounds like your mind is made up despite as you even state knowing very little about this.

I only cited the GP due to the erroneous logic that the Bears would be beat 12-0 had the Oilers had more experience together. Not that that post by the other poster was even an honest conclusion.

We're done here.

 

[McOvechking]

A well structured, well coached team of near-NHL hockey players?

I don't understand people saying "they wouldn't stand a chance at winning a single game"

They would compete most nights for sure.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

A well structured, well coached team of near-NHL hockey players?

I don't understand people saying "they wouldn't stand a chance at winning a single game"

They would compete most nights for sure.

The Golden Bears? They do this against Rookies, but AHL Vets and higher end NHL prospects there would beat them on a regular basis. They would compete and would win, but they would be a bottom feeder type team in the AHL.

 

[Replacement*]

The Golden Bears? They do this against Rookies, but AHL Vets and higher end NHL prospects there would beat them on a regular basis. They would compete and would win, but they would be a bottom feeder type team in the AHL.

Its not a given because the Bears structure and coaching and buy in would invariably be as good or better. As it always has been. people forget as well that such coaches as Arbour, Hitchcock, Babcock etc have quoted Clare Drake as a mentor and leader in devising defensive and puck support strategy.

The bears play a ingrained system of hockey that is translated to each new batch of recruits and has been for decades.

That's an advantage that makes the sum better than its constituent parts. Not that the parts are bad either. In many cases very little separates.

Ask yourself why a player like Ringrose, who has been successful for years and has produced and finished goals for years was never drafted. Its often a very fine margin.

 

[grego]

I don't live in Edmonton, and have never seen them play so I can't speak to that part of it.

But if they are well coached and managed and are capable of retaining a strong roster with good development it goes a long way. They may not do as horribly as people claim.


Proper coaching and management goes a long way. Do I need to cite examples on the Oilers board as to what happens with bad coaching and management. I am quite certain there are some very badly run teams in the AHL if you had the time to go through the ranks of the league. So even if some of those teams had more talent, it doesn't really matter as much if they have poor systems and coaching. It is not just about pure talent alone

 

[Replacement*]

I don't live in Edmonton, and have never seen them play so I can't speak to that part of it.

But if they are well coached and managed and are capable of retaining a strong roster with good development it goes a long way. They may not do as horribly as people claim.


Proper coaching and management goes a long way. Do I need to cite examples on the Oilers board as to what happens with bad coaching and management. I am quite certain there are some very badly run teams in the AHL if you had the time to go through the ranks of the league. So even if some of those teams had more talent, it doesn't really matter as much if they have poor systems and coaching. It is not just about pure talent alone

Its been an interesting discussion. One of the things that gets lost is the Oil had a LOADED rookie lineup for this one and with this lineup, if we played it in more than one game, none of the Jets, Flames, Nucks rooks would come close to competing.

Fact of the matter is the Oilers played their best intensity game against the Bears, McDavid definitely played better than his first game. Drai played his best game, and the Bears still stuck around and did better than NHL rookie squads did against this lineup.

This was no typical Bears vs Oilers Rookies tilt. This was multiple first rounders in the Oilers lineup and the best draft since Crosby.

If the Bears can hang with that and beat some NCAA premier clubs they can beat some AHL clubs.