OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VI (NO RIOT/PROTEST DISCUSSION)

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ponytrekker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
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Idk if you guys remember but my wife had Covid in late March-early April. Thankfully it was a relatively mild case and she recovered and got back to normal after a couple weeks. I went this past week for antibody testing because we just assumed I had it and was asymptomatic. My antibody test was negative. I have no idea how I didn't get it. This thing is supposed to be insanely contagious and I lived in a 1br apartment with someone who had it, being careful and washing hands a lot and stuff but still sharing a bed and spending all day within a few feet of each other mostly. I was pretty shocked.
This is pretty common. I know others who are in the same boat. I am no scientist but have the opinion that this thing is spread by the superspreader who walks around the office coughing with his mouth open. Hoping, hoping hoping that limited care while contagious will prevent. I.e., WEAR YOUR EFFING MASK.
 
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chosen

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Aug 2, 2005
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The answer to the question as to why the virus hasn't spiked in Georgia is that most people aren't availing themselves of the state being opened. Will try to find the graph that demonstrates this point.
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
34,597
11,595
Sweden
One of the most detailed interviews about testing and how we are likely to see second and third waves of infections that I have seen. I would always take sites like these with a HUGE grain of salt but the information is coming straight from a Cellular Neurobiologist. Very interesting.

Scroll down to the audio files

Medical Experts Say A Second Wave of COVID-19 Is Coming Fall 2020 — And Could Be Worse Mixed with Fall Flu Season. Mp3 Audio Interview with Prof. Jay Couey, Ph.D., Cellular Neurobiologist, Univ. of Pittsburgh.

I haven't listened yet, but I will.

Just one thing, many waves are sure to come (even if we get a vaccine, it is likely not 100%). But by many accounts it don't at all have to be as bad as this one or even the "normal" flu.

1. A lot of things point at that we will be able to protect the elders much better. In Sweden nursing homes are "cleared" of Covid on a regular basis. The second largest city, Malmö, has managed to keep it out of the nursing homes really well from Day 1. A big reason for the disasters we have seen in nursing homes have definitely been that they were "under-resourced" from Day 1. Most personell are assistant nurses and they have the lowest paid jobs by a wide margin in Stockholm, only compareable to iffy cleaning services. Average time of employment is low, and a huge portion of the personel work at a place for a few months, not years. A huuuge porition have subpar language skills, and many down right poor language skills/barely speaks Swedish. They have had accesss to little to none protective gear. Anonomyous surveys show that many went to work with mild flu symptoms long into the pandemic.

If the nursing homes are protected -- 50% of the battle is won. Its not about preventing covid from ever coming into a nursing home (to start with). Many places have had up towards 50 effin % of the elders infected, and you often hear numbers of how around 1/3 - 1/2 of the nursing homes had elders with Covid. If these numbers can be reduced to like 1/10 having odd cases -- which seems to be possible with more resources and clearer guidelines -- that alone has a huge impact.

2. By all accounts the effect of the virus is dying down all over the western world at about the same rate. Climate. We have a significant level of immunity. 10% is significant in itself. Reduced a R value from 1.5 t0 1.35.

This is the difference between 1,000 cases left alone with an R value of 1.5 and with a R value reduced with 10% to 1.35 -- over just two months (showing total cases, the number at the X axis is Covid's cycle, which is days x4, so 16 = 64 days):
upload_2020-5-22_12-54-52.png


More and more experts, with more and more support, are pointing out that even if the immunity headcount is low, in like NYC around 10%, and other places like 2-3%, it doesn't show the true picture. A coefficient must be applied, that is believed to be around 3. That alone has a really drastic impact on the above curve.

3. Our habits will change if not for good, for a long time going forward. Just take something as simple as going to work with a bad flu. Hands up anyone who ever popped like an aspirin to push down a fever to go to work? Despite having a bad cough or whatever. At my firm we all did it. I once got a bad pnemonia for working through a flu, it was really bad to be honest. I had a closing my last day at work, after it my collegues asked half jokingly how are you Ola? And I joked and said "think of Tom Hanks in Philadelphia, but worse". I ride a train into Stockholm. January-February you get a sympohny of coughing constantly before this thing.

These things will just not be accepted anymore. I herd one expert make this comparison: You have a colleague who shows up to work, sits at his desk, and then all of a sudden starts running to the bathroom, and then comes out saying 'darn I cannot shake the stomach flu I got, I am puking all the time' before going back to work along with the rest of us. How many would accept that? Everyone would go 'wtf go home, now!!!!!'. This is supposedly -- exactly -- how people in Japan would feel if someone showed up for work with a bad cough. I cannot imagine -- not even remotely -- going to work with a fever and a bad cough in February 2021, 2022, 2023 and probably for a good number of years. Forever? Who knows. But it will be different.

Even if it might be theoretically possible for an asymptomatic person infected with Covid to pass it on, and especially for people with mild symptoms, its of course those who get a severe infection that is most infectious by far.

Stuff like this will have a huuuuge impact too. Add on masks and what not.

4. A study by JP Morgan has gone viral. They are pointing at this -- and claiming that the current situation in the US with wide ongoing full scale lock-outs is purely a result of the political climate and they are showing how most lockdowns still ongoing are doing much more damage than good -- looking at covid cases alone.



Its a good read!

I wouldn't trust anything JP Morgan says, but they are putting their money where their mouths are and there is little I would trust more when it comes to an analysis of reality than those made by the world's investors. Nobody has a bigger completely unbiased incentive to be right in this regard then them.

The stock market are surely pushing some unmotivated surges shortly thereafter followed by big downfalls, because trades benefit on the volatility. But they are counting on this thing being over already. If they are wrong, it will cost them a tremendous amount of money. They have the most resources and have snatched up the top experts a long time ago. If they believed that a second wave was coming soon, this summer already or in the fall, the stock market wouldn't look like it does right now. Not even remotely.

The current full scale lockdowns are 100% driven by politics.
 
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ponytrekker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
1,316
293
I haven't listened yet, but I will.

3. Our habits will change if not for good, for a long time going forward. Just take something as simple as going to work with a bad flu. Hands up anyone who ever popped like an aspirin to push down a fever to go to work? Despite having a bad cough or whatever. At my firm we all did it. I once got a bad pnemonia for working through a flu, it was really bad to be honest. I had a closing my last day at work, after it my collegues asked half jokingly how are you Ola? And I joked and said "think of Tom Hanks in Philadelphia, but worse". I ride a train into Stockholm. January-February you get a sympohny of coughing constantly before this thing.
In New York, you are going to see a dramatic decline in public petri . . . I mean transportation ridership. While before I would take a 10 minute train ride to avoid a 35 minute walk, that aint gonna happen no more.

These things will just not be accepted anymore. I herd one expert make this comparison: You have a colleague who shows up to work, sits at his desk, and then all of a sudden starts running to the bathroom, and then comes out saying 'darn I cannot shake the stomach flu I got, I am puking all the time' before going back to work along with the rest of us. How many would accept that? Everyone would go 'wtf go home, now!!!!!'. This is supposedly -- exactly -- how people in Japan would feel if someone showed up for work with a bad cough. I cannot imagine -- not even remotely -- going to work with a fever and a bad cough in February 2021, 2022, 2023 and probably for a good number of years. Forever? Who knows. But it will be different.

Even if it might be theoretically possible for an asymptomatic person infected with Covid to pass it on, and especially for people with mild symptoms, its of course those who get a severe infection that is most infectious by far.

Stuff like this will have a huuuuge impact too. Add on masks and what not.
You underestimate stupidity. Even though my office is closed, there are people bragging about being in the office.
 

chosen

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Aug 2, 2005
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This is still my favorite one:

“Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if you're a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it's true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that's why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we're a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it's not as important as these lives are nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?, but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it's four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven't figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it's gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us”.
 

Leonardo87

New York Rangers, Anaheim Ducks, and TMNT fan.
Sponsor
Dec 8, 2013
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Universal Orlando is re-opening June 5th. Florida is way ahead of us. Gonna be limited capacity and have to wear a face covering when around people and get temperature Taken before entering.

I hope things work out, this will be a huge test. Since it will be similar situations like going to a concert or game, which has large amounts of people.
 
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chosen

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This is pretty common. I know others who are in the same boat. I am no scientist but have the opinion that this thing is spread by the superspreader who walks around the office coughing with his mouth open. Hoping, hoping hoping that limited care while contagious will prevent. I.e., WEAR YOUR EFFING MASK.

Considering that the antibody test is about 50% accurate, you can also flip a coin to see if you have antibodies.
 

Chaels Arms

Formerly Lias Andersson
Aug 26, 2010
7,303
6,888
New York City
Non-essential gatherings of up to 10 people now permitted under a new order by the governor.

Not much of the "lockdown" left at this point other than the parts killing businesses.
 
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chosen

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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I haven't listened yet, but I will.

Just one thing, many waves are sure to come (even if we get a vaccine, it is likely not 100%). But by many accounts it don't at all have to be as bad as this one or even the "normal" flu.

1. A lot of things point at that we will be able to protect the elders much better. In Sweden nursing homes are "cleared" of Covid on a regular basis. The second largest city, Malmö, has managed to keep it out of the nursing homes really well from Day 1. A big reason for the disasters we have seen in nursing homes have definitely been that they were "under-resourced" from Day 1. Most personell are assistant nurses and they have the lowest paid jobs by a wide margin in Stockholm, only compareable to iffy cleaning services. Average time of employment is low, and a huge portion of the personel work at a place for a few months, not years. A huuuge porition have subpar language skills, and many down right poor language skills/barely speaks Swedish. They have had accesss to little to none protective gear. Anonomyous surveys show that many went to work with mild flu symptoms long into the pandemic.

If the nursing homes are protected -- 50% of the battle is won. Its not about preventing covid from ever coming into a nursing home (to start with). Many places have had up towards 50 effin % of the elders infected, and you often hear numbers of how around 1/3 - 1/2 of the nursing homes had elders with Covid. If these numbers can be reduced to like 1/10 having odd cases -- which seems to be possible with more resources and clearer guidelines -- that alone has a huge impact.

2. By all accounts the effect of the virus is dying down all over the western world at about the same rate. Climate. We have a significant level of immunity. 10% is significant in itself. Reduced a R value from 1.5 t0 1.35.

This is the difference between 1,000 cases left alone with an R value of 1.5 and with a R value reduced with 10% to 1.35 -- over just two months (showing total cases, the number at the X axis is Covid's cycle, which is days x4, so 16 = 64 days):
View attachment 347050

More and more experts, with more and more support, are pointing out that even if the immunity headcount is low, in like NYC around 10%, and other places like 2-3%, it doesn't show the true picture. A coefficient must be applied, that is believed to be around 3. That alone has a really drastic impact on the above curve.

3. Our habits will change if not for good, for a long time going forward. Just take something as simple as going to work with a bad flu. Hands up anyone who ever popped like an aspirin to push down a fever to go to work? Despite having a bad cough or whatever. At my firm we all did it. I once got a bad pnemonia for working through a flu, it was really bad to be honest. I had a closing my last day at work, after it my collegues asked half jokingly how are you Ola? And I joked and said "think of Tom Hanks in Philadelphia, but worse". I ride a train into Stockholm. January-February you get a sympohny of coughing constantly before this thing.

These things will just not be accepted anymore. I herd one expert make this comparison: You have a colleague who shows up to work, sits at his desk, and then all of a sudden starts running to the bathroom, and then comes out saying 'darn I cannot shake the stomach flu I got, I am puking all the time' before going back to work along with the rest of us. How many would accept that? Everyone would go 'wtf go home, now!!!!!'. This is supposedly -- exactly -- how people in Japan would feel if someone showed up for work with a bad cough. I cannot imagine -- not even remotely -- going to work with a fever and a bad cough in February 2021, 2022, 2023 and probably for a good number of years. Forever? Who knows. But it will be different.

Even if it might be theoretically possible for an asymptomatic person infected with Covid to pass it on, and especially for people with mild symptoms, its of course those who get a severe infection that is most infectious by far.

Stuff like this will have a huuuuge impact too. Add on masks and what not.

4. A study by JP Morgan has gone viral. They are pointing at this -- and claiming that the current situation in the US with wide ongoing full scale lock-outs is purely a result of the political climate and they are showing how most lockdowns still ongoing are doing much more damage than good -- looking at covid cases alone.



Its a good read!

I wouldn't trust anything JP Morgan says, but they are putting their money where their mouths are and there is little I would trust more when it comes to an analysis of reality than those made by the world's investors. Nobody has a bigger completely unbiased incentive to be right in this regard then them.

The stock market are surely pushing some unmotivated surges shortly thereafter followed by big downfalls, because trades benefit on the volatility. But they are counting on this thing being over already. If they are wrong, it will cost them a tremendous amount of money. They have the most resources and have snatched up the top experts a long time ago. If they believed that a second wave was coming soon, this summer already or in the fall, the stock market wouldn't look like it does right now. Not even remotely.

The current full scale lockdowns are 100% driven by politics.


1. The lockdowns are driven by fear, not politics.

2. The stock market is staying high primarily because a handful of stocks represent an enormous chunk of the market. Alphabet, Amazon, Apple etc,. and those companies are doing just fine.
 

eco's bones

Registered User
Jul 21, 2005
26,129
12,530
Elmira NY
I don't think there's any question that shutting things down and taking measures to contain the spread were the right thing to do. If we had done nothing we would have multiplied the cases and deaths. How much is guesswork but for now things have slowed considerably. The questions are how fast to open everything up and I think slowly and methodically and whether there will be another wave or whether it will return in the fall. Shutting down also allowed the state to catch its breath and enabled us time and space to come up with strategies on how to go forward and effectively battle against this virus and put out the fires that pop up until there is a vaccine.

As for masks---it's really not a big deal and people should continue wearing them in public places. Any one of us could be an asymptomatic carrier and not know. When other people look at us at least some of them will be thinking exactly that and whatever anyone's particular feelings on that people should be considerate of others fears especially when there is a lot of evidence to back those fears up keeping in mind as well the fear that people might spread it to those closest to them. If a store clerk worries at the end of the day that because of this or that unmasked bozo she's had to deal with that she might bring it back to her family that's a pretty legitimate fear.
 

chosen

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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I don't think there's any question that shutting things down and taking measures to contain the spread were the right thing to do. If we had done nothing we would have multiplied the cases and deaths. How much is guesswork but for now things have slowed considerably. The questions are how fast to open everything up and I think slowly and methodically and whether there will be another wave or whether it will return in the fall. Shutting down also allowed the state to catch its breath and enabled us time and space to come up with strategies on how to go forward and effectively battle against this virus and put out the fires that pop up until there is a vaccine.

As for masks---it's really not a big deal and people should continue wearing them in public places. Any one of us could be an asymptomatic carrier and not know. When other people look at us at least some of them will be thinking exactly that and whatever anyone's particular feelings on that people should be considerate of others fears especially when there is a lot of evidence to back those fears up keeping in mind as well the fear that people might spread it to those closest to them. If a store clerk worries at the end of the day that because of this or that unmasked bozo she's had to deal with that she might bring it back to her family that's a pretty legitimate fear.

All true, but some are stupid and selfish. That's only going to get worse until the fall. Then most everyone will wonder why it was such a big deal to wear a mask.
 

Leonardo87

New York Rangers, Anaheim Ducks, and TMNT fan.
Sponsor
Dec 8, 2013
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Looks like mid-Hudson will re-open to Phase 1 on Tuesday. They need to get these tracers trained over the weekend.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
143,091
114,389
NYC
I'm not in the mood to get a mod warning, so I will refrain and continue to make only light posts. Get it? Light posts?
I got this one.

I don't wear a mask to make sure these people don't get COVID. I wear a mask to make sure COVID doesn't have the indignity of having to infect these losers.
 
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