The Athletic Corey Pronman - Buffalo Has the Top Farm System and It Isn’t Really Close

[Dingo44]

The only problem is that the ranking is entirely due to a single player. The guy doing the rankings flat out said that without Dahlin we would be 10th or 11th. Not bad, but not exactly something to write home about.

The whole gist of the interview was that the only reason we were #1 was because of Dahlin and Mittelstadt. Considering they were both picked by the same guy, and the one wasn't even the consensus top available pick when taken, it absolutely does have bearing.

But who cares? That's my point. I don't care about "Well, what if we didn't draft Dahlin then where would be be?" or "Hey Mittelstadt was a no brainer with Murray guys" or "Without these guys we wouldn't be as good...". Yeah - and if Vancouver doesn't have Hughes and Pettersson then they're not at #2. Again, who cares?

Again, my point is, we HAVE these guys, we ARE #1, these are GREAT things, let's be happy and instead of overanalyzing and look for ways to take a side on responsibility or try to diminish what it means, just revel in the fact we have these guys and next year is gong to be a LOT of fun - and it's just the beginning!

Seriously - "What if the team didn't have their top two prospects - they wouldn't be ranked as high!" Um, you think???

 

[Icicle]

Seriously - "What if the team didn't have their top two prospects - they wouldn't be ranked as high!" Um, you think???

Ya, that's what happens when you spend #21OA on dunces. You don't have 'top' prospects.

 

[Dingo44]

Ya, that's what happens when you spend #21OA on dunces. You don't have 'top' prospects.

But we do. We have the top of the top. "Yeah, but..." Yeah but NOTHING. We do.

I can't stand "Yeah, but..." people. There is always a negative angle. And there are always a-holes who love to point them out. They're toxic.

 

[sabremike]

But who cares? That's my point. I don't care about "Well, what if we didn't draft Dahlin then where would be be?" or "Hey Mittelstadt was a no brainer with Murray guys" or "Without these guys we wouldn't be as good...". Yeah - and if Vancouver doesn't have Hughes and Pettersson then they're not at #2. Again, who cares?

Again, my point is, we HAVE these guys, we ARE #1, these are GREAT things, let's be happy and instead of overanalyzing and look for ways to take a side on responsibility or try to diminish what it means, just revel in the fact we have these guys and next year is gong to be a LOT of fun - and it's just the beginning!

Seriously - "What if the team didn't have their top two prospects - they wouldn't be ranked as high!" Um, you think???

I don't want to come off as a total Richard and that is in no way my intent but I really wish I could find it in me to be as optimistic as you. I'm not being a snarky jerk, I really mean that. I wish I could for once in almost a decade go into a season not expecting total pain and misery, I just want some joy out of being a fan of this team.

 

[Aladyyn]

But we do. We have the top of the top. "Yeah, but..." Yeah but NOTHING. We do.

I can't stand "Yeah, but..." people. There is always a negative angle. And there are always a-holes who love to point them out. They're toxic.

And guess what happens when you remove Svech and Nečas from Carolina's pool. Or Pettersson and Hughes from Canucks' pool. Or the top 2 prospects of literally any team. Why are we even talking about this?????

 

[Dingo44]

I don't want to come off as a total Richard and that is in no way my intent but I really wish I could find it in me to be as optimistic as you. I'm not being a snarky jerk, I really mean that. I wish I could for once in almost a decade go into a season not expecting total pain and misery, I just want some joy out of being a fan of this team.

If you can't get excited about Dahlin and Mittelstadt then you can't get excited for anyone. Pretty much anyone in the hockey business, from GMs, to coaches, to players, to executives, to writers, have been raving about both of them - and especially Dahlin.

I've seen them both play in person multiple times. I spoke to Mittelstadt. I spoke to Chris Drury about Mittelstadt who told me he's going to be a superstar for years. Not sure what else you can do, other than look inward and wonder how you got this way.

 

[sabremike]

And guess what happens when you remove Svech and Nečas from Carolina's pool. Or Pettersson and Hughes from Canucks' pool. Or the top 2 prospects of literally any team. Why are we even talking about this?????

It's not top 2 here, it's one guy. If you want to do a positive point you can point out that the one guy is so great and a borderline generational player that he singlehandedly made us have the top prospect pool in the league all by himself. That's pretty impressive.

 

[jc17]

It's not top 2 here, it's one guy. If you want to do a positive point you can point out that the one guy is so great and a borderline generational player that he singlehandedly made us have the top prospect pool in the league all by himself. That's pretty impressive.

Same principle still applies. If we're 10 or 11 without Dahlin, I imagine at least half the teams in the top 10 fall off with the loss of their top guy, so we're still probably top 5. Even top 10 isn't bad.

 

[sabremike]

If you can't get excited about Dahlin and Mittelstadt then you can't get excited for anyone. Pretty much anyone in the hockey business, from GMs, to coaches, to players, to executives, to writers, have been raving about both of them - and especially Dahlin.

I've seen them both play in person multiple times. I spoke to Mittelstadt. I spoke to Chris Drury about Mittelstadt who told me he's going to be a superstar for years. Not sure what else you can do, other than look inward and wonder how you got this way.

Ed Johnson and Peter Karmanos. That's pretty much how I got this way.

 

[1972]

It’s always the no name guys drafted after the third round and very rarely they concencus “steals” at the time of the draft. I love when a team takes a guy no one knows early, that means they really want that player.

 

[cramdizzl]

Thats not how Pronman works though, he is looking at NHL ceiling, not what they've already accomplished. He's always done it this way, I like the guy and usually agree with many of his takes, nobody is 100% though, and he sticks to his guns and doesn't always follow the crowd.

No different than the way the prospect polls work here. Some people value likelihood more than ceiling, some people do a combination of both, and some people rank on pure potential.

Clearly he values potential a lot, I just think its to an excessive degree. Lets say Laaksonen's ceiling is a top-4 puck mover, and Olofsson's is a 25-goal sniper. Olofsson has shown he's a lot closer and more likely to hit that potential, given what he's already accomplished, than Laaksonen who has barely taken off the training wheels.

 

[Fezzy126]

I think people around here think too much about how we got guys or who deserves credit for which player, instead of appreciating the fact these guys are all in our system and multiple outsiders taking independent looks at every team have rated our futures #1 in the league.

Can't agree enough with this ^^^. Every GM has a team of people working on pro scouting, amateur scouting, contracts, etc. During the draft, the GM is responsible for the bigger picture, but he is basically a moderator for his team. Every post draft 'behind the scenes' special shows how the operation is run.

I've never really understood the rush to credit or bash a GM for drafts, it's his team that deserves the credit. And in our case, until very recently most of those scouting teams have been the same dudes regardless of the GM...

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I think people around here think too much about how we got guys or who deserves credit for which player, instead of appreciating the fact these guys are all in our system and multiple outsiders taking independent looks at every team have rated our futures #1 in the league.

Exaclty. It's ridiculous people saying well what if Dahlin wasn't there? But he is. Or who scouts or whatever. Botts drafted most of these guys and we are first and have 3 1sts next year. Enjoy it instead of looking for fault.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

While I like the picks Botts has made, for the most part, it is still way to early to be preaching about his “solid drafting ability”. The majority of them won’t pan out that’s just the way it is but if we get a couple solid roster players past his first round then we can talk about his drafting ability. As it stands it is yet to be seen.

I disagree and the last two drafts have been home runs. Whether the player pans out is another thing but the guys he has drafted are great and always value there. Murray was a disaster with guys like Cornel and karabacek passing on Barbashev and trading away firsts rounds to everyone. Botts so far gets a solid A from me.

 

[Team Cozens]

I really wanted Berggren at #32 this year and Botts had all night to decide. Samuelsson could turn out to be a great pick but that’s the one I’m going to watch play out over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Mitts was at #6 in Bob's final rankings, and we got him at #8. But Vilardi was #5 and he was still on the board when we picked, so it's not as if the pick was obvious if we were going with a forward. The buck stops with the GM, so he certainly gets credit for the pick - I doubt he was overly deferential with the first top-10 pick of his first job as GM (he probably was moreso later in the draft, e.g., Laaksonen).

I'm happy with the pick. That was a good draft for forwards. It'll be fun to watch the hypothetical redraft threads and the arguments for and against guys like Pettersson, Vilardi, Glass, Necas, Thomas, et al.

Yes, Vilardi fell too and it’s yet to be seen if Botts picked the better player out of the two. I would’ve been happy with either.

Congrats to Botts for not screwing the pick up. He picked one of two players who fell, two players almost any of us would’ve picked from.

I’m still very high on Vilardi — he’s almost a full year younger that Casey and has been injured most of his D+1 season. Any of the guys you listed could easily turn out to be the best of the bunch. I’m just glad we got what looks to be a great player.

 

[Dingo44]

Yes, Vilardi fell too and it’s yet to be seen if Botts picked the better player out of the two. I would’ve been happy with either.

Congrats to Botts for not screwing the pick up. He picked one of two players who fell, two players almost any of us would’ve picked from.

I’m still very high on Vilardi — he’s almost a full year younger that Casey and has been injured most of his D+1 season. Any of the guys you listed could easily turn out to be the best of the bunch. I’m just glad we got what looks to be a great player.

I watched a bunch of Vilardi with the Spitfires and he's a great player - but I've also seen Mitts and he's just on another dynamic level. Vilardi is great but I'm very happy we took Mitts instead.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Botterill should be applauded for not screwing up the 2017 draft...or is 2016 forgotten already? You know the draft where we picked at the same exact spot in a much better draft and picked...a boom bust perimeter winger. Over Sergachev. The 8th overall pick should be a star player for you. An impact player. That's the difference between Murray and Botts. Botts can hit a home run at #8. Murray got us Nylander over Sergachev. It's not just about getting a good prospect when you pick...its about getting the best prospect when you pick. Which is what Botts has done and Murray didnt.

Even if Dahlin and Mitts graduate, the likely 3 top 20 picks this year will help stem the loss. After the 2020 draft this is still a top 5/10 prospect pool.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I watched a bunch of Vilardi with the Spitfires and he's a great player - but I've also seen Mitts and he's just on another dynamic level. Vilardi is great but I'm very happy we took Mitts instead.

He was injured most of the season. So he obviously was not 100% when he came back, and still played amazingly when he did. Hard to judge at this point.

Right now I’d put my money on Mitts being the better player, but that could easily change. Casey has had a lot more opportunity to prove himself. Vilardi still has another season before he’s Casey’s age.

 

[5 Minute Major]

If you can't get excited about Dahlin and Mittelstadt then you can't get excited for anyone. Pretty much anyone in the hockey business, from GMs, to coaches, to players, to executives, to writers, have been raving about both of them - and especially Dahlin.

I've seen them both play in person multiple times. I spoke to Mittelstadt. I spoke to Chris Drury about Mittelstadt who told me he's going to be a superstar for years. Not sure what else you can do, other than look inward and wonder how you got this way.

I’m with you my friend.

Today was a cool day out.....tomorrow the calendar flips to September. I’m getting excited about some Sabres hockey! Not only excited but optimistic!

Some freaking young, awesome players are about to take the ice for our team....and I’ve heard this Thompson kid is nobody to sleep on.

I feel a fun year is ahead of us!

 

[Sabre the Win]

Murray found Guhle in the 2nd round and Olofsson in the 7th. Asplund in the 2nd, he also found Borgen in the 4th and Pu in the 3rd who eventually got us Skinner. Eichel was a no brainer and Reinhart is solid but Draistle was picked after and at least he got the right Sam.

Nylander still has question marks but I haven't wrote him off just quite yet but Sergachev seemed to be the no brainer there even though Montreal got rid of him (Who messed up more?)

This post isn't to say Murray is better at drafting or as a GM but this whole Botterill can do no wrong and is turning this team around schtick is fine and all but Murray does deserve some credit to who we have coming up in the pipeline to insulate our core.

Brighter days seem to be ahead of us.

 

[Club]

If you remove every team's prospect we're probably still top 5.

I don't get what you mean

 

[SabreOil]

8-31: Corey Pronman from The Athletic with The Instigators (16:08)

Oh man that was frustrating to listen to. Do your radio hosts constantly interrupt their guests and then talk over each other repeatedly? I could hear one of them breathing the entire time too. Don't sit so close to the mic!

 

[Goathead]

Botterill should be applauded for not screwing up the 2017 draft...or is 2016 forgotten already? You know the draft where we picked at the same exact spot in a much better draft and picked...a boom bust perimeter winger. Over Sergachev. The 8th overall pick should be a star player for you. An impact player. That's the difference between Murray and Botts. Botts can hit a home run at #8.

Why anyone should be applauding a GM for a draft, in which the total NHL games played between all picks is 6 games, is beyond me. Bottom line is it’s still too early. Mitts was a fairly easy selection and after that no one else is close to sniffing the NHL. Mitts seems like a fairly safe bet to make it but if he is the only one from this draft to do so I would call it a disappointment.

The 3 first rounders next year will be huge though, especially the STL and SJS ones as they will most likely be late firsts. I would call a draft successful if you get two NHLers out of it and next year our chances of that are much higher. Hitting on top 10 picks is much easier then 11-31 and the rounds that follow. I’ll applaud him when he starts hitting on those.

 

[ZZamboni]

Oh man that was frustrating to listen to. Do your radio hosts constantly interrupt their guests and then talk over each other repeatedly? I could hear one of them breathing the entire time too. Don't sit so close to the mic!

They’re not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
They’re not playing with a full deck.
They don’t have both oars in the water.
The elevator doesn’t go to the top floor with those guys.
They’re a few fries short of a happy meal.