Core 5 in games 6 & 7 (2019-2022)

[A1LeafNation]

Last 2 Playoff games of the season (includes games 4 and 5 in 2020 as it was best of 5)

Matthews GP8 3-4-7 -4
Marner GP8 0-4-4 -4
Tavares GP6 4-1-5 -1
Nylander GP8 2-4-6 1
Rielly GP8 2-0-2 -2

Majority of the minuses come from 2019, but it's clear these guys were even 5-on-5 at best until this year.

Looks like Rielly has struggled the most.

Should we expect more, especially from the 3 franchise level players?

Click to read more...

 

[thewave]

Last 2 Playoff games of the season (includes games 4 and 5 in 2020 as it was best of 5)

Matthews GP8 3-4-7 -4
Marner GP8 0-4-4 -4
Tavares GP7 4-1-5 -1
Nylander GP8 2-4-6 1
Rielly GP8 2-0-2 -2

Majority of the minuses come from 2019, but it's clear these guys were even 5-on-5 at best until this year.

Looks like Rielly has struggled the most.

Should we expect more, especially from the 3 franchise level players?

I would say Marner by those stats and in a big way.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Last 2 playoff games of the season, 2019-2022, Crosby

7 games played - 0 goals, 4 assists

Conclusion: Crosby is obviously garbage, and will never win in the playoffs

 

[A1LeafNation]

Last 2 playoff games of the season, 2019-2022, Crosby

7 games played - 0 goals, 4 assists

Conclusion: Crosby is obviously garbage, and will never win in the playoffs

Are you talking about 2006-2018 Crosby, or 2019-2022 Crosby being garbage?

He'd fit right in with this core based on your post...and he's not even making 11m.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Last 2 Playoff games of the season (includes games 4 and 5 in 2020 as it was best of 5)

Matthews GP8 3-4-7 -4
Marner GP8 0-4-4 -4
Tavares GP6 4-1-5 -1
Nylander GP8 2-4-6 1
Rielly GP8 2-0-2 -2

Majority of the minuses come from 2019, but it's clear these guys were even 5-on-5 at best until this year.

Looks like Rielly has struggled the most.

Should we expect more, especially from the 3 franchise level players?

I would say Marner is the largest disappointment by far. You are not winning many games when a guy like him is a massive liability and brings down the rest of the team.

The rest of the guys probably see a massive uptick if Marner started pulling his weight in those games. More attention taken off of the other three forwards (especially Matthews). More assists for Rielly.

 

[ER89]

Last 2 playoff games of the season, 2019-2022, Crosby

7 games played - 0 goals, 4 assists

Conclusion: Crosby is obviously garbage, and will never win in the playoffs

Yeah now do cup wins or Conn smythes.

Last 2 playoff games of the season, 2019-2022, Crosby

7 games played - 0 goals, 4 assists

Conclusion: Crosby is obviously garbage, and will never win in the playoffs

Yeah now do cup wins or Conn smythes.

Also why don't we compare Crosby at the same ages of Mitch and Matthews at least.

 

[mclaren55]

Last 2 playoff games of the season, 2019-2022, Crosby

7 games played - 0 goals, 4 assists

Conclusion: Crosby is obviously garbage, and will never win in the playoffs

What a bullshit argument, as usual from you.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Game 4 against BJs was such an odd game that should not be taken into account. As they got all their points while pulling their goalie for 6 mins and in OT.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah now do cup wins or Conn smythes.

He has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.

What a bullshit argument

You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??

 

[hamzarocks]

He has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.

You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??

The leafs have no good samples

The entire JT era has been an L.

Three years left to win something

 

[Dekes For Days]

Three years left to win something

At least a decade.

 

[hamzarocks]

At least a decade.

3 years left to win something

JTs already a 57 pt player in the playoffs

In 3 years he'll be what a 25 pt player?

 

[Dekes For Days]

3 years left to win something

We'll be a competitive team for at least a decade more. At least as long as we don't make counterproductive moves based on cherry picking small samples from small samples from small samples with no context.

 

[hamzarocks]

We'll be a competitive team for at least a decade more.

Naw can't say this with any conviction

2 years from now we'll know how we stand

34 and 88 need to be kept or replaced with similar/better core players

Hopefully we'll win a series or two in the next 2 years

 

[Dekes For Days]

Naw can't say this with any conviction

We can say it with very good certainty. Matthews/Marner aren't going anywhere.

 

[PromisedLand]

Last 2 Playoff games of the season (includes games 4 and 5 in 2020 as it was best of 5)

Matthews GP8 3-4-7 -4
Marner GP8 0-4-4 -4
Tavares GP6 4-1-5 -1
Nylander GP8 2-4-6 1
Rielly GP8 2-0-2 -2

Majority of the minuses come from 2019, but it's clear these guys were even 5-on-5 at best until this year.

Looks like Rielly has struggled the most.

Should we expect more, especially from the 3 franchise level players?

just to provide some context

against habs Game 7: Marner tries to make fancy moves, gives the puck away at the opposition blue line, they transition to score a goal in Game 7. 1-0 habs


This season:
Game 6 OT against tampa. Marner makes a hailmary pass from toronto d-zone that gets intercepted; tampa transitions, Point walks in with Holl just watching him like a freakin Pylon and scores the OT winner

Games 6 and 7 this season -> Mathtews is working his tail off near the boards, laying body, taking hits to make a play, keeping the puck in opposition zone.

Marner and Bunting are so effing weak that as soon as the puck goes to them the puck is out of tampa zone.


Nylander:
This dude is an enigma. He freakin' drives the net with no fear in one game and gets decimated; then the next game he just floats near the board not caring about going after the puck. I don't know whats going on in his head.

Tavares: too slow (skating, decision making) -> 11 AAV btw

Rielly: Mo gets talked about a lot, but quite frankly he plays relatively well. His point totals are not showing up because forwards are not getting their job done right. The only thing you can call on Rielly is that his point shot is non-existent and Leafs' PP becomes way to predictable in the playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

We can say it with very good certainty. Matthews/Marner aren't going anywhere.

Once again we don't know that.

We should wait and see how the next 2 years go before giving a 10 year forecast

 

[Dekes For Days]

Once again we don't know that.

We pretty much do know that.

We should wait and see how the next 2 years go before giving a 10 year forecast

You're the one that started claiming competitive timelines. The best estimate for our competitive timeline is at least another decade.

 

[hamzarocks]

We pretty much do know that.

You're the one that started claiming competitive timelines. The best estimate for our competitive timeline is at least another decade.

I said we've failed so far in the 4 years we've had JT.

Then said we've got 3 attempts left with JT on his deal.

Another decade is not the best estimate it's the most optimistic one. Assuming our prospects all hit, our core re-signs and we can get some cheaper options to replace the supporting players.

A retool is on the horizon if the next 2 years don't see any change in the teams playoffs fortunes

 

[TimeZone]

Marner has been nothing short of pathetic.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Then said we've got 3 attempts left with JT on his deal.

You said we had "3 years left to win something". That's setting a competitive timeline. The more accurate competitive timeline is another decade, not 3 years. Our competitive timeline is far, far, far more dependent on Matthews/Marner - who are extremely likely to re-sign and be excellent players for another decade - than Tavares.

 

[hamzarocks]

You said we had "3 years left to win something". That's setting a competitive timeline. The more accurate competitive timeline is another decade, not 3 years. Our competitive timeline is far, far, far more dependent on Matthews/Marner - who are extremely likely to re-sign and be excellent players for another decade - than Tavares.

I said three years left to win something after referring to the failures of the JT era/4 years so far.

MM and AM even if they stick around will need high quality support. Well need our other core guys to be able to produce at their expected level to win

JT has failed to do so. In 3 years he's a UFA and it's a reset to the org in terms of the structure of our core changing

10 years is once again an optimistic timeline. We're 1 1st round loss away from a likely change in managment at which point the core and direction fo the team will be reassessed.

The potential for a retool and major changes are much closer and apparent than you'd care to admin

Pressure is super high on toronto to win something for once. Need to give reason for players to want to play in Toronto. Need to give reasons to the 2 core guys that toronto is a team capable of winning now and moving forward.

Right now a lot of uncertainty and questions linger.

 

[Dekes For Days]

MM and AM even if they stick around will need high quality support.

And there's no reason to think they won't have it.

10 years is once again an optimistic timeline.

No, it's the most realistic estimation, as long as we don't start making bad, counterproductive moves based on, for example, cherry picking small samples from small samples from small samples with no context. We have until Matthews/Marner start declining, which is likely to happen in their mid-30s.

 

[hamzarocks]

And there's no reason to think they won't have it.

No, it's the most realistic estimation, as long as we don't start making bad, counterproductive moves based on, for example, cherry picking small samples from small samples from small samples with no context. We have until Matthews/Marner start declining, which is likely to happen in their mid-30s.

We looked at the only samples available under the big 4 era. 2019 to 2022 in the playoffs which are where success is determined, not in the regular season. Yeah, we looked at games 5-7, but that makes sense as the core has failed to close teams out and has seen both their GF and GA fall/rise (worsen) in games 5 to 7 (or 3-5 for CBJ) vs the first 4 games of the series.

If we look at their total playoff productions as leafs from 2019, none of them are performing up to par.

Matthews has 26 pts in 26 games
Marner has 20 pts in 26 games
Nylander has 22 pts in 26 games (closest one living up to his contract)
JT has 14 pts in 20 games

The core four have underwhelmed and underdelivered in the playoffs. They have led us to 4 straight 1st round exits, by not being good enough.

Every question sent their way is deserved and they should be called out for their failures. Crosby btw has also failed from 2019 to 2022 and hasn't been good enough. He got his cups and amazing playoff runs so the pressure isn't as high in Pittsburgh.

Toronto has 2 years to contend, then they will need to reassess if this is a core worth keeping, and the same for the core if this is an organization worth staying in long-term.

 

[mclaren55]

He has zero Cups or Conn Smythes during that time.

You mean it's not great to cherry pick small samples out of small samples out of small samples with no context to draw conclusions about players??

You’re so disingenuous it’s laughable. The arrogance that drips from your posts exposes your insecurities.

Pull AM and MM career stats in elimination games and stack that against Crosby’s. You still want to go down that road?