Injury Report: Copp broken cheek bone

[GMR]

You can still play golf with this injury. He’ll be fine in two weeks.

 

[Gniwder]

He is overpaid. But it isn't an issue - even when you put it in bold type.

LOL, if you think that's a good contract I want some of whatever it is that you're smoking today.

Fact of the matter is, he's getting slower and softer by the day. I'm not sure if he ever fully recovered from the core injury or if something else is bothering him. It's a contract that will look worse every year, just like Nielsen's. Copp will eventually get bought out or dumped. I'll remind you when it happens.

The initial pushback was not to defend SY. It was because the OP about this hopefully having been the last we see of Copp was callous. Also, pretty stupid, because there is almost zero chance this was Copp's last game,. The subsequent pushback was because the OP seems to have no idea what realistic alternatives there were to Copp, and no appreciation for what he does bring, even if it is obviously at too high a price. No one is defending SY by claiming it was a good signing.

Except Lazlo, lol.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

LOL, if you think that's a good contract I want some of whatever it is that you're smoking today.

Fact of the matter is, he's getting slower and softer by the day. I'm not sure if he ever fully recovered from the core injury or if something else is bothering him. It's a contract that will look worse every year, just like Nielsen's. Copp will eventually get bought out or dumped. I'll remind you when it happens.


Except Lazlo, lol.

I said he's overpaid. And I didn't call it a good contract. I've said repeatedly it's hardly the biggest problem with the roster. As in the quantity of bitching about him here versus his actual negative impact on the team is wildly out of proportion. And you are the champion on that front.

No need to remind me if Copp gets bought out. If your obsession continues until then I'll have long since had you on ignore.

 

[norrisnick]

The only problem with Copp and/or his contract is that we have two of them. One is fine, two is a bit excessive. Be nice if Veleno could have escaped the doghouse and progressed to 3C so one of the two Copps could have replaced Perron's immobile ass in the top 6...

 

[14ari13]

or none of them wanted to play in Detroit there is always that possibility. not every UFA wants to play in Detroit.

The players didn't want to come to Detroit these years as it was a bad team, so Yzerman had to overpay. The players wanted to come to Detroit (Hull, Hasek) when the team was good.

And if I understand it, players choose Florida because the taxes are lower and the weather is much better.

Yeah, and that's the issue. He'd rather pay mid salary to a bunch of mediocre players instead of getting an actual first line player.

Hronek + Kasper would have gotten the deal done if Stevie wanted him. We know they were talking because Hronek got dealt eventually. Admittedly hindsight trading at this point, but I wanted Horvat before he was dealt.

As for Copp, his contract IS the issue. If he was making $2M, nobody would care one way or the other.

It's really odd the same people who hated on Abby are defending Copp. Abby's a Michigan native and he was a career Wing as opposed to Copp who was a UFA signing. LFG didn;' get as much love either.

You wanna die on this stupid hill, be my guest. Copp sucks, his contract sucks worse. YOU CAN'T CHANGE REALITY.

I think you, and many other posters here, make a mistake when assessing the players on this team because all the players on this roster have to play above or far above their role.
Look for example Hronek and Chiarot. Hronek looks much better now on a good team. Chiarot looks far better this season than last one as the team improved.
You say Copp sucks, but so does DeBrincat. 1 goal in 20 games. Is it the coach or is it Copp and DeBrincat?

 

[Astyanax]

Look at the date, Copp and Trochek were UFA at the same time. there was quite a bit of debate on which one Stevie should target.

So yeah.... your response reads realgud, lol.

Not to mention that I didn't bring it up, I was responding to a post which should have been obvious since I quoted the person I responded to.

Besides, why worry about Trochek's contract being an issue 5 years from now when Copp's contract was an issue before the ink even dried?

But for the record, I never hated the signing. Hated the term and money; reduce either and it's fine. He does what he does fairly well. And as someone above reiterated, we are/were rebuilding, so you don't get to pick and choose.

 

[Dotter]

If Copp's contract blocks Yzerman from making improvements, then I'll criticize it. Until then it's just a placeholder. My only concern is it's probably 1-yr too long, but that's a nothing burger. Looking at capfriendly, it appears Yzerman has placed a timeline window.

 

[Henkka]

If Copp's contract blocks Yzerman from making improvements, then I'll criticize it. Until then it's just a placeholder. My only concern is it's probably 1-yr too long, but that's a nothing burger. Looking at capfriendly, it appears Yzerman has placed a timeline window.

We don't really have anyone like Copp on the prospect pipeline, as NHL ready, until Copp is gone. So he is not really a problem. Next 3 years is nothing for a 29-year old.

So he will be fine for this short era. Kasper could take his role or Danielson, but those will most probably be inserted in as wingers, and they will learn everything from Copp how to play this critical position. And then, after mentoring years, Copp is gone and kids are ready to take the torch.

Without this mentoring period, as together, those kids would become worse NHL products. It's part of the plan.

 

[Hen Kolland]

As for Copp, his contract IS the issue. If he was making $2M, nobody would care one way or the other.

It's really odd the same people who hated on Abby are defending Copp. Abby's a Michigan native and he was a career Wing as opposed to Copp who was a UFA signing. LFG didn;' get as much love either.

You wanna die on this stupid hill, be my guest. Copp sucks, his contract sucks worse. YOU CAN'T CHANGE REALITY.

Here's a thought exercise that I would like you to participate in, because I'm pretty confident you can't contextualize a response that will make any sense.

Complete this sentence: "I believe that Copp's contract sucks because.... "

And the answers I won't accept as valid answers are "because he is overpaid" or "because there are other players who do the same for less". I want some critical thought as to why it sucks to us as an organization. Are we actively shopping him and can't find a buyer? Is he forcing us over the cap? Can we not add talent to the roster because of his contract? Is he so bad that he doesn't warrant being on an NHL roster? Be careful, because you already said that he would be fine if he was on a smaller contract.

The only thing that I can discern by reading through the comments of people complaining about Copp's contract is that they (you) believe he is overpaid relative to what other teams pay their 3rd line centers, not because it has actually created an issue.

We have $24+ million in salaries and dead cap clearing at the end of this season, and another $15+ million the following year. Yeah, we have to spend some of that money to renew Seider and Raymond, budget for Edvinsson, and debate bringing back names like Kane, Perron, Lyon, etc. but we also stand to promote players at some point like Berggren, Kasper, Mazur, Danielson, Cossa, Wallinder, Johansson, ASP on ELC deals.

Like, we don't have a cap structure issue at all, even if Copp is mildly overpaid. And for the record, saying he should make $2 million really drives the nail home on exactly how little your "REALITY" can be trusted. Look at the names of centers in the ballpark of $2 million. Nick Bjugstad having a career year with 45 points at age 30, Frederick Gaudreau, Noel Acciari, Morgan Geekie, Tyson Jost, Nico Sturm, Sean Monahan on a one year deal having a career renaissance, Teddy Blueger.

With the exception of the gamble on Monahan, I am taking Copp at center over all of these players. Maybe Geekie based on age, but again, a player kind of having a career year.

The going rate for a reliable/quality third line center in their prime age range on the UFA market is not going to be $2 million. It shouldn't be $5 million either, but we obviously bought a player who hasn't been what we thought he could be. The good news is that we didn't pin all of our hopes on him being that player and we have continued to add pieces. The ultimate problem is you can't add the type of talent we need without a lucky gamble in draft/develop or with a trade for a proven asset.

 

[GMR]

The players didn't want to come to Detroit these years as it was a bad team, so Yzerman had to overpay. The players wanted to come to Detroit (Hull, Hasek) when the team was good.

And if I understand it, players choose Florida because the taxes are lower and the weather is much better.


I think you, and many other posters here, make a mistake when assessing the players on this team because all the players on this roster have to play above or far above their role.
Look for example Hronek and Chiarot. Hronek looks much better now on a good team. Chiarot looks far better this season than last one as the team improved.
You say Copp sucks, but so does DeBrincat. 1 goal in 20 games. Is it the coach or is it Copp and DeBrincat?

I thought the Michigan boys all grew up dreaming of playing for Detroit?

I have my suspicions. Unless these players are pushing 40, they grew up rooting for the mediocre to bad Detroit teams. These guys are coming here for the money, and not to be just like their heroes Legwand, Weiss, and Cleary.

 

[Gniwder]

Here's a thought exercise that I would like you to participate in, because I'm pretty confident you can't contextualize a response that will make any sense.

Complete this sentence: "I believe that Copp's contract sucks because.... "

And the answers I won't accept as valid answers are "because he is overpaid" or "because there are other players who do the same for less". I want some critical thought as to why it sucks to us as an organization. Are we actively shopping him and can't find a buyer? Is he forcing us over the cap? Can we not add talent to the roster because of his contract? Is he so bad that he doesn't warrant being on an NHL roster? Be careful, because you already said that he would be fine if he was on a smaller contract.

The only thing that I can discern by reading through the comments of people complaining about Copp's contract is that they (you) believe he is overpaid relative to what other teams pay their 3rd line centers, not because it has actually created an issue.

We have $24+ million in salaries and dead cap clearing at the end of this season, and another $15+ million the following year. Yeah, we have to spend some of that money to renew Seider and Raymond, budget for Edvinsson, and debate bringing back names like Kane, Perron, Lyon, etc. but we also stand to promote players at some point like Berggren, Kasper, Mazur, Danielson, Cossa, Wallinder, Johansson, ASP on ELC deals.

Like, we don't have a cap structure issue at all, even if Copp is mildly overpaid. And for the record, saying he should make $2 million really drives the nail home on exactly how little your "REALITY" can be trusted. Look at the names of centers in the ballpark of $2 million. Nick Bjugstad having a career year with 45 points at age 30, Frederick Gaudreau, Noel Acciari, Morgan Geekie, Tyson Jost, Nico Sturm, Sean Monahan on a one year deal having a career renaissance, Teddy Blueger.

With the exception of the gamble on Monahan, I am taking Copp at center over all of these players. Maybe Geekie based on age, but again, a player kind of having a career year.

The going rate for a reliable/quality third line center in their prime age range on the UFA market is not going to be $2 million. It shouldn't be $5 million either, but we obviously bought a player who hasn't been what we thought he could be. The good news is that we didn't pin all of our hopes on him being that player and we have continued to add pieces. The ultimate problem is you can't add the type of talent we need without a lucky gamble in draft/develop or with a trade for a proven asset.

How about I start with "Copp sucks because":
- He's noticeably slower than before this contract, and he seems to be getting slower every game like Perron
- He's one of the softest players on the team
- He can't shoot worth a crap
- He has no puck skills aside from cycling the puck. I will admit he cycles well.
- He's completely useless on the PP
- He plays into Lalonde's dump and not chase scheme. (Some of that is definitely on the coach)

League average for 3C is around $3 - 3.5M (ballpark), aside from being overpaid, the issue is that he's slow and soft. The problem with the team is that the team as a whole is too slow and too soft, so Copp contributes to that. A bottom 6 forward needs to be fast and/or physical, and Copp is neither. This contract will be Stevie's Nielsen.

If Copp wasn't from Ann Arbor, everyone would hate this contract. I bet Holl wishes he was from AA, so that he can get some of this absurd love. I don't see him getting traded this summer, but I'll bet my car that he won't finish his contract in Detroit.

 

[Hen Kolland]

How about I start with "Copp sucks because":
- He's noticeably slower than before this contract, and he seems to be getting slower every game like Perron
- He's one of the softest players on the team
- He can't shoot worth a crap
- He has no puck skills aside from cycling the puck. I will admit he cycles well.
- He's completely useless on the PP
- He plays into Lalonde's dump and not chase scheme. (Some of that is definitely on the coach)

League average for 3C is around $3 - 3.5M (ballpark), aside from being overpaid, the issue is that he's slow and soft. The problem with the team is that the team as a whole is too slow and too soft, so Copp contributes to that. A bottom 6 forward needs to be fast and/or physical, and Copp is neither. This contract will be Stevie's Nielsen.

If Copp wasn't from Ann Arbor, everyone would hate this contract. I bet Holl wishes he was from AA, so that he can get some of this absurd love. I don't see him getting traded this summer, but I'll bet my car that he won't finish his contract in Detroit.

You just said that everyone hated Abdelkader and his contract but love Copp because he is from Ann Arbor. But Abdelkader is from Muskegon, grew up a Wings fan, and went to Michigan State before coming up through the Wings organization. So it can't be because of where he comes from...

I didn't ask for an explanation on why you dislike Copp the hockey player; I know why, this isn't a new grievance and I have read your comments before.

As for the contract, I get the sense that the organization still wants him around, he isn't blocking anyone (others would be discarded before Copp), he isn't stopping us from adding players that we want (mainly because nobody worthwhile hits UFA now). So again, it just seems like the contract sucking is more based off of relative comparison, which doesn't matter when the playing field isn't perfectly comparable. Like the Wings as constructed can afford to overpay a 3C by a million and a half, you know who can't Toronto or Edmonton.

I won't tell you that you are wrong to dislike him as a player, but the argument over the bad contract continues to be irrelevant until he puts us in a difficult spot. And at that point, it still isn't an issue with Copp as much as it should be with our pro scouts and Yzerman for drafting the contract terms.

 

[acetehubernoob]

You just said that everyone hated Abdelkader and his contract but love Copp because he is from Ann Arbor. But Abdelkader is from Muskegon, grew up a Wings fan, and went to Michigan State before coming up through the Wings organization. So it can't be because of where he comes from...

I didn't ask for an explanation on why you dislike Copp the hockey player; I know why, this isn't a new grievance and I have read your comments before.

As for the contract, I get the sense that the organization still wants him around, he isn't blocking anyone (others would be discarded before Copp), he isn't stopping us from adding players that we want (mainly because nobody worthwhile hits UFA now). So again, it just seems like the contract sucking is more based off of relative comparison, which doesn't matter when the playing field isn't perfectly comparable. Like the Wings as constructed can afford to overpay a 3C by a million and a half, you know who can't Toronto or Edmonton.

I won't tell you that you are wrong to dislike him as a player, but the argument over the bad contract continues to be irrelevant until he puts us in a difficult spot. And at that point, it still isn't an issue with Copp as much as it should be with our pro scouts and Yzerman for drafting the contract terms.

the issue with this forum is theres way too many "casual" type fans that seem to think that if a player isnt scoring ppg then they deserve less than a million. also lots of people here that dont seem to get that you need role players to have a successful team. would a forward group of 12 kanes be good? theyd generate a lot of offence but who is shutting down the oppositions top line? copp is a totally servicable 3c that can move up to 2c for a couple of games and not look wildly out of place. sure he is sightly overpaid but my god do you guys not realise how much the cap is set to jump over the next couple years? reading through this tread was good tho, just added another to my ignore list (not you hen kolland)

 

[14ari13]

I thought the Michigan boys all grew up dreaming of playing for Detroit?

I have my suspicions. Unless these players are pushing 40, they grew up rooting for the mediocre to bad Detroit teams. These guys are coming here for the money, and not to be just like their heroes Legwand, Weiss, and Cleary.

That explains everything. I had no idea he was a Michigan boy. I won't say a single bad word about the local guy.

But to be honest, I think it is a good idea Yzerman brings local boys.
I take back all the criticism. DeBrincat is great, Lalonde sucks.

But to be completely honest I think this is much more Lalonde than DeBrincat. DeBrincat struggles to score, the smart coach takes him off PP1. Lalonde is insane.

 

[GMR]

the issue with this forum is theres way too many "casual" type fans that seem to think that if a player isnt scoring ppg then they deserve less than a million. also lots of people here that dont seem to get that you need role players to have a successful team. would a forward group of 12 kanes be good? theyd generate a lot of offence but who is shutting down the oppositions top line? copp is a totally servicable 3c that can move up to 2c for a couple of games and not look wildly out of place. sure he is sightly overpaid but my god do you guys not realise how much the cap is set to jump over the next couple years? reading through this tread was good tho, just added another to my ignore list (not you hen kolland)

The issue with this forum is that we're rooting for a team that's missed the playoffs since 2016.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Why does Stevie get a free pass for signing Copp while Kenny gets criticized for Nielsen and Weiss? Kenny was in a worse situation with a declining team and crappy facilities.

Copp's contract is nowhere near the disaster that Nielsen's was and the even worse Weiss signing. The five-year deal Copp signed at a lower percentage Cap hit than Nielsen will end at an age when Nielsen still had five years remaining on his. Nielsen was not only immediately less than expected, he was done as even a semi-useful player with three years remaining and back in Denmark for the last year of his original deal. The heat Holland got for Nielsen was after other long-term bad deals for Abby (seven-year extension lol) and Weiss, 29 points in 78 total GP on a five-year deal that was iffy even before the subsequent core injury because of medical red flags for multiple wrist surgeries. There was no evidence the last of them, at the end of his last Florida season when he had one goal and four points in 17GP, had done anything to repair the wear-and-tear damage (tendon deterioration IIRC) that had almost eliminated his ability to shoot. Somehow, Kenny's crack team of pro scouts figured not being able to shoot was no big deal.

 

[GMR]

Can't he wear a cage and play with a broken cheek bone?

 

[Gniwder]

Copp's contract is nowhere near the disaster that Nielsen's was and the even worse Weiss signing. The five-year deal Copp signed at a lower percentage Cap hit than Nielsen will end at an age when Nielsen still had five years remaining on his. Nielsen was not only immediately less than expected, he was done as even a semi-useful player with three years remaining and back in Denmark for the last year of his original deal. The heat Holland got for Nielsen was after other long-term bad deals for Abby (seven-year extension lol) and Weiss, 29 points in 78 total GP on a five-year deal that was iffy even before the subsequent core injury because of medical red flags for multiple wrist surgeries. There was no evidence the last of them, at the end of his last Florida season when he had one goal and four points in 17GP, had done anything to repair the wear-and-tear damage (tendon deterioration IIRC) that had almost eliminated his ability to shoot. Somehow, Kenny's crack team of pro scouts figured not being able to shoot was no big deal.

It's actually a bigger issue because the team is trying to win. You can say that Abby and Nielsen contracts weren't a big deal because the team was gonna suck and tank anyways. They both really helped the tank. Copp is $5.6M of dead cap space. Take that money and Holl's contract, and you can buy a pretty decent player in free agency.

He's also the most boring full time forward to watch on this team, barely edging out Joey and Fish.

Plus nobody has addressed the fact that his play is declining. I can't possibly be the only person who's noticed the drop off in skating. It's almost as obvious as Perron.

 

[heyfolks]

Is there a video of the high stick?

Edit: nm

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

It's actually a bigger issue because the team is trying to win. You can say that Abby and Nielsen contracts weren't a big deal because the team was gonna suck and tank anyways. They both really helped the tank. Copp is $5.6M of dead cap space. Take that money and Holl's contract, and you can buy a pretty decent player in free agency.

That's the problem right there, in bold face. Kenny was trying to win. And both of those contracts ended up being more damaging than Copp's, but we'll see.

I remember Copp's skating to start last season was bad because of surgery? Short off-season? It never improved all that much and to me it's about the same as last year. The more frustrating issue IMO is he just won't use his big body.

 

[norrisnick]

It's actually a bigger issue because the team is trying to win. You can say that Abby and Nielsen contracts weren't a big deal because the team was gonna suck and tank anyways. They both really helped the tank. Copp is $5.6M of dead cap space. Take that money and Holl's contract, and you can buy a pretty decent player in free agency.

He's also the most boring full time forward to watch on this team, barely edging out Joey and Fish.

Plus nobody has addressed the fact that his play is declining. I can't possibly be the only person who's noticed the drop off in skating. It's almost as obvious as Perron.

Who is the last $8.5M player to hit UFA? Gaudreau? I honestly prefer Copp's deal...

 

[Gniwder]

Who is the last $8.5M player to hit UFA? Gaudreau? I honestly prefer Copp's deal...

Over $8.5 you're right, but if you have $8.5M you can sign players for less. Though I gotta say, there haven't been a whole lot of attractive UFAs the past couple of summers. Just goes to show you gotta trade to get guys like Horvat or Hanifin. (Not that I wanted Hanifin, he just signed a contract.).

 

[lhsgolf19]

this is good to see

 

[heyfolks]

How about I start with "Copp sucks because":
- He's noticeably slower than before this contract, and he seems to be getting slower every game like Perron
- He's one of the softest players on the team
- He can't shoot worth a crap
- He has no puck skills aside from cycling the puck. I will admit he cycles well.
- He's completely useless on the PP
- He plays into Lalonde's dump and not chase scheme. (Some of that is definitely on the coach)

League average for 3C is around $3 - 3.5M (ballpark), aside from being overpaid, the issue is that he's slow and soft. The problem with the team is that the team as a whole is too slow and too soft, so Copp contributes to that. A bottom 6 forward needs to be fast and/or physical, and Copp is neither. This contract will be Stevie's Nielsen.

If Copp wasn't from Ann Arbor, everyone would hate this contract. I bet Holl wishes he was from AA, so that he can get some of this absurd love. I don't see him getting traded this summer, but I'll bet my car that he won't finish his contract in Detroit.

What are the terms of said bet? What kind of car, condition, color, extras, etc. What do I need to put up?


don't get me wrong, I like Copp less than any on this board BUT with the right structure, this may be a bet I take. Does finishing his career in GR count as with the organization? If bought out an no NHL team picks him up and he retires he will have technically finished his career in Detroit. That's a win for me. LTIR..... win for me.

 

[Gniwder]

What are the terms of said bet? What kind of car, condition, color, extras, etc. What do I need to put up?


don't get me wrong, I like Copp less than any on this board BUT with the right structure, this may be a bet I take. Does finishing his career in GR count as with the organization? If bought out an no NHL team picks him up and he retires he will have technically finished his career in Detroit. That's a win for me. LTIR..... win for me.

No it doesn't count if he's bought out. Let me re-phrase that because my intent wasn't clear. He won't finish his contract in Detroit. GR and buyout doesn't count.