Continental Airlines looking to cut wages by 500 million to survive - sound familiar?

[ColinM]

My logic is flawed? How. Explain it to me. Where does all this money come from that makes Tampa a BIG market team? Tell me about the economy and where the corporate sponsorship deals come from? Tell me what the corporate support is and why the Lightning will get support over other more attractive propositions. Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

You think that because some blue hair retires in Florida that he's going to run right out and buy season tickets to the local team? Keep dreaming. He may buy tickets when HIS team comes into town, but that's about it. You don't have a clue buddy. I lived in Tampa. I know several of the Lightning front office. My company had a sponsorship agreement with the Lightning. I know the business climate in Tampa and where the dollars go. Hockey is so far down on the pecking list it isn't even funny. But go ahead, tell me logic is flawed and educate me why. I'm waiting.

It's quite simple actually. Tampa used to be a losing hockey team and now they are the Stanley Cup Champions. This on-ice success means that demand for tickets will increase which means that the owners will be able to sell their tickets for more money and thus increase their revenue. It works that way in just about any legitimate NHL market. This was true in Vancouver and as another poster mentioned this was true after Florida made a run to the Stanley Cup Finals.

It's likely true that the Lightning will never be as important to Tampa Bay as the Bucaneers are but that doesn't mean that the Lightning can't be successful. The Cowboys are the kings of Dallas but the Stars were still successful. In each case fans and corporate sponsors want to see their team win and were willing to jump on the bandwagon. We've already seen the Lightning put over 20 000 fans into their rink during the playoffs and if it wasn't for the lockout they would be riding that momentum.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

It's quite simple actually. Tampa used to be a losing hockey team and now they are the Stanley Cup Champions. This on-ice success means that demand for tickets will increase which means that the owners will be able to sell their tickets for more money and thus increase their revenue. It works that way in just about any legitimate NHL market. This was true in Vancouver and as another poster mentioned this was true after Florida made a run to the Stanley Cup Finals.

It's likely true that the Lightning will never be as important to Tampa Bay as the Bucaneers are but that doesn't mean that the Lightning can't be successful. The Cowboys are the kings of Dallas but the Stars were still successful. In each case fans and corporate sponsors want to see their team win and were willing to jump on the bandwagon. We've already seen the Lightning put over 20 000 fans into their rink during the playoffs and if it wasn't for the lockout they would be riding that momentum.

Actually, its not that simple. Tampa didn't "pack 'em in". In fact there were tickets available game day for the Stanley Cup games. And all season long the Bolts were running rediculous promotions where they bordered on giving the tickets away to get some buts in the seats. There is a loyal following of Boltheads, but it is not a large number. The Lightning really have grind away to get interest in the team. There is just way too much to do in Florida that the Lightning have to compete with. Given that the State is football mad and that Yankee Spring training eats up two months of the season, it is a massive challenge to get the fans in the building. Its tough to compete with the Bucs and the Yankees, especially with the tradition these clubs have in the community as well.

 

[PecaFan]

It's quite simple actually. Tampa used to be a losing hockey team and now they are the Stanley Cup Champions. This on-ice success means that demand for tickets will increase which means that the owners will be able to sell their tickets for more money and thus increase their revenue.

It's likely true that the Lightning will never be as important to Tampa Bay as the Bucaneers are but that doesn't mean that the Lightning can't be successful.

He wasn't saying that there won't be some increases in attendance, etc. He's questioning the *level*.

They can be successful, but they won't ever be one of the big fish financially.

 

[Steve L*]

and so what if they rise again .. there is nothing wrong with expecting a system that allows your salary to increase even if the companies profits dont.
dr

Clearly you have no idea of economics.

Were not talking about a raise of a few thousand like in normal jobs, were talking about increases of millions which will affect the viability of the business.

 

[ColinM]

He wasn't saying that there won't be some increases in attendance, etc. He's questioning the *level*.

They can be successful, but they won't ever be one of the big fish financially.

Wasn't the same thing said about about Colorado circa 1996-97? Like Tampa Bay, Denver is a city with over 2 million people and has to share the spot light with the NFL and MLB. It was such a small market that in the the early 80s they lost their team to New Jersey. When the Rangers made that offer to Joe Sakic many people worried Colorado would be unable to match. However, additition revenue from playoff dates and raising ticket prices to capitalize on increased demand for tickets kept that team successful.

What exactly is different about Denver in 1996 than Tampa Bay in 2004?

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Clearly you have no idea of economics.

Were not talking about a raise of a few thousand like in normal jobs, were talking about increases of millions which will affect the viability of the business.

i wouldnt be so quick to state what you think i am clear or not on.

its all relative. frankly, at the end of the day it still comes down to "if you cant afford it, dont pay it".

dr

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

What exactly is different about Denver in 1996 than Tampa Bay in 2004?

Colorado being a hockey market and Tampa not being a hockey market. There is no real grassroots programs for hockey in Tampa. A metropolis of 3.3 million people and there are 3 hockey rinks where you can rent ice. And they are hours a part. There is no opportunity to catch the youngsters who grow to be local fans the way there is in Denver. That impacts the potential for future ticket sales and where corporations are going to throw their money.

Something you really need to understand is that there are different markets that embrace given sports. In Florida football is the religion. If you want to be a player you pick up the football. Its what kids do. The next big sport is golf. I was floored at the number of golf teams and the involvement in that sport. Their grassroots programs for golf are amazing. Hockey? Its non-existent. The rinks stand dark most of the time or are used for figure skating.

Seriously, if you're a business in Tampa and you are going to cough up some money for entertainment purposes that will impress clients hockey is not it. Bucs football in Raymond James Stadium is where the smart money goes. After that the second biggest hook is likely Yankees Spring Training tickets at Legends field. After that you're better off spending your money on a golf membership at one of the snooty courses in Tampa (Avila, Tampa Palms, etc). Taking a customer to a hockey game, a sport they likely don't know much about or follow, is not a wise thing to do. This is why Tampa will never be BIG market. There just aren't enough fans around to generate the corporate support. When you can walk up game day and get tickets to the Stanley Cup finals, why get seasons tickets? The biggest event in the season can't sell out in advance (they didn't for the All Star game there either BTW) and you think the tiny corporate community in Tampa is going to throw their support behind that? It just isn't realistic to expect that.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

its all relative. frankly, at the end of the day it still comes down to "if you cant afford it, dont pay it".

dr

Right. You try and tell that to the O&G company that is in the red and has just drilled another dry hole. They're just going to stop drilling, stop paying employees, and call it a day.

 

[Steve L*]

its all relative. frankly, at the end of the day it still comes down to "if you cant afford it, dont pay it".

dr

Yeah, companies have done just that and shut down because it couldnt afford what the unions wanted, everyone was out of a job so what good did that do?

 

[missK]

Colorado being a hockey market and Tampa not being a hockey market. There is no real grassroots programs for hockey in Tampa. A metropolis of 3.3 million people and there are 3 hockey rinks where you can rent ice. And they are hours a part.

Sorry, but you are wrong about the distance between the rinks. Yes, there are 3 rinks, but they are not "hours" apart. Brandon, Oldsmar and Clearwater aren't more the 28 miles apart. I can and do drive between any of them in 45 minutes or less normally, one hour TOPS and that's only if in rush hour traffic.

And you don't base a sports market on the climate. If so, who would want to play football in Florida in 90+ degree weather? If hockey was played outside, it would be an issue, but that's not the case in the NHL.

P.S. 65% of people who live in Florida came from the North where they have COLD weather so there is a large possibility they were exposed to hockey LONG BEFORE they came to live in Florida. I was a hockey fan in the Northeast for 20 years before I moved south.

When you can walk up game day and get tickets to the Stanley Cup finals, why get seasons tickets? The biggest event in the season can't sell out in advance (they didn't for the All Star game there either BTW) and you think the tiny corporate community in Tampa is going to throw their support behind that? It just isn't realistic to expect that.

Totally untrue - In the Finals the only tickets available game day at the Arena were at the WILL CALL window (purchased previously), or via a scalper across the street for big bucks.