Continental Airlines looking to cut wages by 500 million to survive - sound familiar?

[Sammy*]

Yes obviously, which is why the players were willing to offer a 24% pay cut.

Which they & the owners knew that it would be recovered (& more) in short order. That is why the players were not prepared to guarantee that same ratio of salaries to revenue would continue in the future & that is why the owners rejected it.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

ok, so then lets see the owners shut down their teams. it wont happen.

dr

WTF do you think is happening right now?

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

OK...so why won't the NHL build salary controls in their system? You can't tell me that airlines are making "caps", they reach a level of payroll that works for them through the kinds of things that translate to the NHL putting in an entry level cap, getting rid of the 10% auto raise for RFA's, salary rollbacks etc. In no company, in any industry, is a hard salary cap needed in order to enforce salaries.

That's what they are trying to do at this time. Put in place salary controls. The only time they can do it is when the CBA is open for negotiation. Otherwise its called collusion.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

That's what they are trying to do at this time. Put in place salary controls. The only time they can do it is when the CBA is open for negotiation. Otherwise its called collusion.

Ok and my point is there are other ways of controlling salaries than simply putting a hard cap at the point at which your willing to pay salaries to. There are plenty of things that this CBA could include.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

WTF do you think is happening right now?

no, they have not shut down their team. they have initiated a work stoppage. im talking about shutting down their franchise and closing up shop.

they wont do it, so lets stop saying it could happen.

dr

 

[SuperUnknown]

Salaries won't be back to what they were in 2 to 3 years if you implement a system that prevents inflation of salaries. Why do you say that salaries would be back at their current level?

If the players believe the salaries will stay in range after the 24% cut, then why not guarantee it through a salary range for each team? Because they know that the salaries will rise again over that salary range (or cap, call it what you will). Otherwise, their position doesn't make any sense.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

If the players believe the salaries will stay in range after the 24% cut, then why not guarantee it through a salary range for each team? Because they know that the salaries will rise again over that salary range (or cap, call it what you will). Otherwise, their position doesn't make any sense.

and so what if they rise again .. there is nothing wrong with expecting a system that allows your salary to increase even if the companies profits dont.

do you tie your increase to whether or not the company you work for makes money or not ? i know i sure i dont. and you seem rather bright, so i dont expect you work in an entry level dime a dozen position.

dr

 

[Trottier]

Buying a championship like the Yankees or Red Sox have done means very little to me.

The lazy, predictable - and INNACCURATE - cliche of the anti-union demogague. Please, do just a modicum of homework and come back with something original and correct to bolster your POV.

 

[SuperUnknown]

and so what if they rise again .. there is nothing wrong with expecting a system that allows your salary to increase even if the companies profits dont.

do you tie your increase to whether or not the company you work for makes money or not ? i know i sure i dont. and you seem rather bright, so i dont expect you work in an entry level dime a dozen position.

dr

Globally, if the industry doesn't make a profit, sooner or later, salaries (or jobs) will be affected. Hence, the player's interest is that the NHL makes a profit on the long term. Now, I'm not saying that players don't have their self interest at heart and shouldn't try to bring home whatever they can. But they still have to keep in mind that what keeps the league operating (if we go by economic logic) is that the owners can expect a profit out of its operation.

Besides, the owners want to tie player salaries to revenues. Revenues do not equal profit. Also, the % would have to be negociated every cba, so the players could always adjust to get a higher % of the revenues in due time. The nice thing about negociations like these (CBA) is that it generally tends to equilibrate the owners profit level to what the market would allow for a similar risk in investment. If the owners make too much profit, it will be in their interest to reach an agreement closer to the profit they should make, as the lost revenues from the lack of operation of the league would drag them to a lower return on investment than the market anyway.

On another note, we are talking about restricting the global salaries, not the individual salaries. Players will still be able to get whatever they feel they can within the system, which seems fair to me. They will be able to position themselves accordingly depending on the salaries paid to other players they feel aren't as good as them.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

And in most cases the employess become partners in the airlines and have salary controls built into the agreements. You are about to see another mid market carrier (US Air) disappear because the unions refuse to play ball and are looking out for only their own selfish needs, not the health and prosperity of the comapny and the industry itself. ATA just closed the doors for the same reasons. How many more examples do you need before you wake up and see the harsh reality that is today's economy?

This is all nonsense.
The airline industry is unhealthy because the big airlines, who serve many markets, have been pecked away by the small airlines which concentrate only on profittable routes.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

This is all nonsense.
The airline industry is unhealthy because the big airlines, who serve many markets, have been pecked away by the small airlines which concentrate only on profittable routes.

Really? Care to explain the failure of so many of the small guys then? This should be entertaining.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

The lazy, predictable - and INNACCURATE - cliche of the anti-union demogague. Please, do just a modicum of homework and come back with something original and correct to bolster your POV.

Inaccurate? In what way? Would you like to argue that big spending is tied directly to long term continued success in the world of sports? Would you like to go head to head on year to year success and the correlation between spending lots of money and making the playoffs?

 

[iagreewithidiots]

The lazy, predictable - and INNACCURATE - cliche of the anti-union demogague. Please, do just a modicum of homework and come back with something original and correct to bolster your POV.

If the Yankees win next year would you say they bought the championship?

 

[iagreewithidiots]

But why should teams have an equal starting point? Life isn't fair.

I dont watch baseball because teams dont have an equal starting point.

Pro sports has very little to do with "real life".

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

Yes obviously, which is why the players were willing to offer a 24% pay cut.

Just a bandaid fix, the league would be in the same mess in a couple of years...

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

If the Yankees win next year would you say they bought the championship?

Yes I will say that..... 200 million dollar payroll is outrageous

 

[ColinM]

Inaccurate? In what way? Would you like to argue that big spending is tied directly to long term continued success in the world of sports? Would you like to go head to head on year to year success and the correlation between spending lots of money and making the playoffs?

There's a correlation but it is good management which produces winning which later produces the large payrolls. The correlation is not that large payrolls causes winning. This is also why Tampa Bay would go from being considered a small market to a large market within the next few years. Their good young talent will continue to be successful and ownership in Tampa Bay will be able to pay for it with increased revenues.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

There's a correlation but it is good management which produces winning which later produces the large payrolls. The correlation is not that large payrolls causes winning. This is also why Tampa Bay would go from being considered a small market to a large market within the next few years. Their good young talent will continue to be successful and ownership in Tampa Bay will be able to pay for it with increased revenues.

Tampa is going to go from small market to big market? How? What revenue streams are they going to find to support this "large market" approach? I'm very curious.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Tampa is going to go from small market to big market? How? What revenue streams are they going to find to support this "large market" approach? I'm very curious.

the same revenues that took DEN from a small market to a large market.

dr

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

the same revenues that took DEN from a small market to a large market.

dr

Give me a break. Its like comparing Calgary to Charlottetown. Denver is in a hockey/winter sport environment. Denver has some serious industry around it. Tampa is a warm weather city that has no major industry. Tropicana is the big money maker in the region. Tampa also has a ton of call centers. Money in Tampa for hockey is a pipe dream. Sort of like Miami supporting the Panthers after their trip to the finals. Its a market that will never be large.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

Give me a break. Its like comparing Calgary to Charlottetown. Denver is in a hockey/winter sport environment. Denver has some serious industry around it. Tampa is a warm weather city that has no major industry. Tropicana is the big money maker in the region. Tampa also has a ton of call centers. Money in Tampa for hockey is a pipe dream. Sort of like Miami supporting the Panthers after their trip to the finals. Its a market that will never be large.

well since you said so.

dr

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

Give me a break. Its like comparing Calgary to Charlottetown. Denver is in a hockey/winter sport environment. Denver has some serious industry around it. Tampa is a warm weather city that has no major industry. Tropicana is the big money maker in the region. Tampa also has a ton of call centers. Money in Tampa for hockey is a pipe dream. Sort of like Miami supporting the Panthers after their trip to the finals. Its a market that will never be large.

For a city that was giving tickets away a few yrs ago, I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Tampa's interest will grow and thus attendance will increase. They averaged 17,820 last season which is like 90% capacity and so there is room for them to draw more. With a now Stanley Cup champion, merchandise should be more popular in the area and will also make the owners money. This is also not to mention that the Tampa area also has plenty of people from the northern US who grew up on hockey.

BTW, after the Panthers made it to the finals, the area supported the team for like 2 yrs with plenty of sold out games. And when they moved into the new building, the average attendance for that season was over 18,000. And this area is also filled with plenty of transplanted people from NY, Michigan, NJ, and Boston...not to mention all the Canadians that come down from January to April!!!

Your logic is flawed. end of story.

 

[iagreewithidiots]

do you tie your increase to whether or not the company you work for makes money or not ? i know i sure i dont. and you seem rather bright, so i dont expect you work in an entry level dime a dozen position.

I sure hope the company I work for makes money.

If they go broke I sure dont expect them to keep giving me raises.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

For a city that was giving tickets away a few yrs ago, I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Tampa's interest will grow and thus attendance will increase. They averaged 17,820 last season which is like 90% capacity and so there is room for them to draw more. With a now Stanley Cup champion, merchandise should be more popular in the area and will also make the owners money. This is also not to mention that the Tampa area also has plenty of people from the northern US who grew up on hockey.

BTW, after the Panthers made it to the finals, the area supported the team for like 2 yrs with plenty of sold out games. And when they moved into the new building, the average attendance for that season was over 18,000. And this area is also filled with plenty of transplanted people from NY, Michigan, NJ, and Boston...not to mention all the Canadians that come down from January to April!!!

Your logic is flawed. end of story.

My logic is flawed? How. Explain it to me. Where does all this money come from that makes Tampa a BIG market team? Tell me about the economy and where the corporate sponsorship deals come from? Tell me what the corporate support is and why the Lightning will get support over other more attractive propositions. Please, tell me where I'm wrong.

You think that because some blue hair retires in Florida that he's going to run right out and buy season tickets to the local team? Keep dreaming. He may buy tickets when HIS team comes into town, but that's about it. You don't have a clue buddy. I lived in Tampa. I know several of the Lightning front office. My company had a sponsorship agreement with the Lightning. I know the business climate in Tampa and where the dollars go. Hockey is so far down on the pecking list it isn't even funny. But go ahead, tell me logic is flawed and educate me why. I'm waiting.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I sure hope the company I work for makes money.

If they go broke I sure dont expect them to keep giving me raises.

and of course you can jump ship anytime you choose.

but if you knew you could earn more almost anywhere else, would you not demand it from your current employer ?

dr