Connor McDavid has 150 EVP (and counting) over these past 2 seasons, 30 more than 2nd place Kane.

[Filthy Dangles]

NHL.com - Stats


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[Empoleon8771]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

It's harder to produce 5v5 than 5v4.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

They're more valuable because more of the game is played at even strength than on the power play. Especially in the playoffs where the amount of penalties goes down.They also tend to be less consistent year to year.

That's not to say powerplay points aren't of value, just not quite as much.

 

[agent082]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

It's harder to get EV-point than PP-point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They're more valuable because more of the game is played at even strength than on the power play. Especially in the playoffs where the amount of penalties goes down.They also tend to be less consistent year to year.

That's not to say powerplay points aren't of value, just not quite as much.

They count for the same in terms of winning games, though. I do agree that players who can score at ES are more valuable than players who can only score on the PP, but most of the time these stats are mentioned, it's for guys that can produce a lot both at ES and on the PP.

Comparing Malkin and McDavid, they both have a similar PPG, but McDavid gets more ES points and Malkin gets more PP points. I don't think Malkin getting more PP points by default makes him worse offensively than McDavid. I just feel like it's something this site emphasizes too much, and that goes for a lot of players. I could use a similar example with Ovechkin and Gaudreau, I don't think it really matters if Ovi gets more PP points and Gaudreau gets more ES points, they both produce around the same per game.

 

[mouz135]

Ayyy lmao

I thought we just had a McButter EVP thread? Can't post it in there?

 

[McFlash97]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

Its harder to produce to Even Strenght points. You know 2 +2 = 4 not 3. Or is it because It's McDavid and you have been known to discredit him on several occasions ....

 

[Bank Shot]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

They are more repeatable generally.

A guy will play 1200-1400 ES minutes and maybe 250 on the PP. A hot or cold streak on the PP can hugely skew results.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Its harder to produce to Even Strenght points. You know 2 +2 = 4 not 3. Or is it because It's McDavid and you have been known to discredit him on several occasions ....

The post wasn't about McDavid, but I like how defensive you're getting.

How could that even be discrediting McDavid, anyway? He also leads the league in points and PPG over those 2 years. It's just me disagreeing with the emphasis on ES production that this site has. That just sounds like you getting defensive.

They are more repeatable generally.

A guy will play 1200-1400 ES minutes and maybe 250 on the PP. A hot or cold streak on the PP can hugely skew results.

I think this is a valid point to make, McDavid's a great example of this for this year. My comment is probably more along the lines of the goals>assists arguments I see on this site. They're both equal in actually helping your team win, but some people seem to think that ES points or goals are more valuable than PP points or assists.

 

[rent free]

now only if they had a better team to support him with

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Does McDavid get less PP points because his speed is less important there? Kind of like a basketball player who thrives in transition points being forced into the halfcourt

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Does McDavid get less PP points because his speed is mostly irrelevant there? Kind of like a basketball player who thrives in transition points being forced into the halfcourt

 

[Laineux]

Does McDavid get less PP points because his speed is less important there? Kind of like a basketball player who thrives in transition points being forced into the halfcourt

He's actually a very good passer in powerplay. He has twice as many powerplay points as the #2 in his team.

The unit just sucks.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

I am sure some of it is analytics posters with their stats being driven by ES

 

[KevinRedkey]

EVP is kind of like SAV% for goalies:
It speaks about how well the player is playing, and reflects individual performance quite well (given a minimum number of games played)

PPP is kind of like GAA for goalies:
A good player can put up great numbers with the right team, but it's very difficult to do on the wrong team.

I would say most value SAV% and EVP more than GAA and PPP, but at the end of the day, a low GAA and PPP can lead what matters most (W) anyways, so it's simply all a matter of perspective.

 

[Lampedampe]

Does McDavid get less PP points because his speed is less important there? Kind of like a basketball player who thrives in transition points being forced into the halfcourt

It might be part of the reason for sure, but on the other hand Mcdavid has 16 PP points while his team has only scored 27 PP goals. It seems like he's doing his part on the PP atleast.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

I honestly don't get why people make such a big deal out of ES points. Not really related to McDavid, but some people seem to think that ES points are somehow inherently more valuable because they're at ES, which doesn't make sense to me.

Agreed. If McDavid dominates players at even strength but can't produce on the power play, isn't that a hole in his game? Why is a lack of production on the power play relative to even strength a positive when discussing a player?

 

[DearDiary]

It's harder to produce 5v5 than 5v4.

It's harder to score a goal than get an assist.
Goals > Assist > 2nd Assist

Why not remove secondary assists and lower assists to 0.7 points, when discussing point stats?

Obviously it's harder to score 5v5 than 5v4, but do you not see why the entire premise of such arguments is ridiculous?

 

[sr edler]

McDavid is like Hagelin. Speedy, so he sucks on the PP.

 

[Bank Shot]

Agreed. If McDavid dominates players at even strength but can't produce on the power play, isn't that a hole in his game? Why is a lack of production on the power play relative to even strength a positive when discussing a player?

He's just having an off year on the PP.

1st year-14 PP points (45 games)
2nd year- 27 PP points
3rd year 16 PP points

Now wait for when he has a lucky year. He will blow the roof off.

If a guy persistently can't produce on the PP that is surely a reason for criticism.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It's harder to score a goal than get an assist.
Goals > Assist > 2nd Assist

Why not remove secondary assists and lower assists to 0.7 points, when discussing point stats?

Obviously it's harder to score 5v5 than 5v4, but do you not see why the entire premise of such arguments is ridiculous?

I'll disagree with your premise, as well. Especially the case with McDavid, the primary and even secondary assist are/were actually 'harder' and/or 'more important' in creating the goal than the actual scoring of the goal.

 

[McFlash97]

McDavid is like Hagelin. Speedy, so he sucks on the PP.

McDavid is nothing like Hagelin.

 

[Kamus]

The issue that has to be addressed in regards to even strength to PP points is that getting PP opportunities is based off team results. Oilers have one of the least amounts of opportunities in history. Now MCDavid creates most of those PP opportunities alone. Other top scores have more opportunities on the PP. Basicly when you get points on the PP most of the time you weren't deserving of getting the advantage (5 on 4) didn't draw the penalty. So looking at this year McDavid has an disadvantage based on what his team does instead of his own abilities, compared to other top scorers.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Agreed. If McDavid dominates players at even strength but can't produce on the power play, isn't that a hole in his game?

Hardly. It’s a hole in our coaching and management. He sets up on the right side boards, anyone with a clue would do whatever it takes to land a RH trigger man to play the point. TMac’s answer was to play a LHD at the point and have the RH “triggerman” play the opposite boards from McDavid (near impossible cross ice pass), and have the talents of Mark The Test Tube Letestu.

Just a tad different than dishing to Crosby/Letang/Kessel or Stamkos/Hedman. He’s got Draisaitl and a bunch of boat anchors.