Confirmed with Link: Connor Brown to WSH for 2024 2nd round pick

[hockeykicker]

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[Cush]

of course its a 2nd

 

[twabby]

I don’t like this deal

 

[Holtbyisms]

Kind of a strange one here for me....we had around 3 mil still left with LuJo as #7 and 12 forwards...dump Eller and you've got 6.5 to sign a bigger name than brown and keep your pick.

I don’t like this deal

Me either. It's 2024 not 23 thankfully but still a weird one unless they think they're going to flip him at the deadline for a similar pick.

 

[BobRouse]

I like it. He’s a manimal.

Good value. No retention means we are over cap technically I think k

 

[Sun God Nika]

You guys fleeced us on this one, thank the internal budget of Ottawa.

Conner Brown is a smart player. In the higher echelon of defensive abilities for a NHL player, elite penalty killer.

His offence is well above average for a typical NHL forward. He is 20+ goal scorer if you keep him on your second line . Third line he can give you 15 if he has full health.

Great at creating short handed offensive opportunities and played on the sens second power play unit.

Final thoughts if you ask me what he is ? A filler top 6 RW or a guy that turns your third line elite. A great middle 6 forward that makes any teams top 9 forward group better

 

[um]

Great deal for us. Brown is a perfect middle six winger.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I like this a lot.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

I don’t like this deal

Explain please.

 

[YippieKaey]

Very good trade for us. I enjoy both this and Kuemper

 

[Hivemind]

Brown himself isn't a bad add, the downside is the opportunity cost. If there's still more pieces in motion (particularly at the center slot), it could still pan out. But adding Brown limits their center budget, likely rules them out of acquiring someone like Puljujarvi, and doesn't really address the team's lack of speed or transition game. He's a good-to-great defensive winger for the middle six, but his production likely isn't going to be as high as it was in Ottawa given that he's not going to get 20 minutes/night or much PP time in Washington. His PKing is also somewhat overrated because he's a big short handed threat (but his team gives up plenty of goals against while he's killing penalties).

Hoping that GMBM still has more pieces in motion to properly address the 2C spot and the team's lack of pace.

 

[YippieKaey]

I wonder if he'll go on the first line with OV and Kuz to do the defensive work in Wilsons absence?

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Never watched Brown play but im not thrilled is this is the big move to get us out of the 1st round.

 

[twabby]

Explain please.

He's just kind of a mediocre player. He's not a particularly good driver of offense, he's not particularly good defensively, he's not a great special teams player. He's a third line winger on a team that needs a top 6 winger badly. They profile a bit differently, but he's basically another Conor Sheary to me. Except he makes $3.6 million and restricts much else that can be done with the roster.

He's not a particularly adept scorer either. He's a career 1.6 points/60 at 5v5, which puts him in the bottom half of the league.

Washington should have been looking for a player who makes their star players better and I don't see it in Connor Brown. Connor Brown is a minute eater but he doesn't do much with those minutes. He won't actively harm them, but for a team that needs a significant talent infusion this move falls short.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Great get for you guys. He's massively underrated.

 

[Raikkonen]

so this is 2-way right handed RW with special team abilities?

just what the doctor ordered

field sheary-cmm-brown and try to get them favorable matchups. profit.

 

[ScruggsCO]

He's just kind of a mediocre player. He's not a particularly good driver of offense, he's not particularly good defensively, he's not a great special teams player. He's a third line winger on a team that needs a top 6 winger badly. They profile a bit differently, but he's basically another Conor Sheary to me. Except he makes $3.6 million and restricts much else that can be done with the roster.

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He's not a particularly adept scorer either. He's a career 1.6 points/60 at 5v5, which puts him in the bottom half of the league.

Washington should have been looking for a player who makes their star players better and I don't see it in Connor Brown. Connor Brown is a minute eater but he doesn't do much with those minutes. He won't actively harm them, but for a team that needs a significant talent infusion this move falls short.

Very confused by this assessment. Connor Brown finished 17th in Selke voting in 20-21 (despite playing on horrendous Ottawa teams) and has a reputation as a valuable PK player / middle 6 winger.

He's definitely not someone you lean on to power your offense, but to say his defensive play is "not particularly great" is something I've never heard said about Brown by any fan from Toronto or Ottawa, nor from any hockey pundits or professionals. Shoot, he was selected as an assistant captain on Canada's world champs team and only wasn't able to play for that team again this year due to being COVID positive.

It sounds like the Caps need much more for next season than what he can offer, but he's surely not a bad pickup on a contract year.

 

[twabby]

Very confused by this assessment. Connor Brown finished 17th in Selke voting in 20-21 (despite playing on horrendous Ottawa teams) and has a reputation as a valuable PK player / middle 6 winger.

He's definitely not someone you lean on to power your offense, but to say his defensive play is "not particularly great" is something I've never heard said about Brown by any fan from Toronto or Ottawa, nor from any hockey pundits or professionals. Shoot, he was selected as an assistant captain on Canada's world champs team and only wasn't able to play for that team again this year due to being COVID positive.

It sounds like the Caps need much more for next season than what he can offer, but he's surely not a bad pickup on a contract year.

Washington doesn't need PKers or middle six wingers, they need a top line winger who can drive offense.

His defensive numbers don't match his reputation either. He's slightly above replacement when it comes to even strength defense over the past 3 years, but hardly worthy of anything near Selke consideration IMO. And his PKing numbers are actually below replacement.

Again, he's a fine enough player. He's a third line winger who's been getting a lot of minutes in Ottawa. But he's not what Washington needs. And more importantly there is quite a large opportunity cost with this pickup given his cap hit.

 

[Marshall]

Bueno.

I know crap-all about the player (I have not paid attention to OTT in the past few years,) but OTT fans' reactions have warmed my cockles appropriately.

 

[ScruggsCO]

Washington doesn't need PKers or middle six wingers, they need a top line winger who can drive offense.

His defensive numbers don't match his reputation either. He's slightly above replacement when it comes to even strength defense over the past 3 years, but hardly worthy of anything near Selke consideration IMO. And his PKing numbers are actually below replacement.

Again, he's a fine enough player. He's a third line winger who's been getting a lot of minutes in Ottawa. But he's not what Washington needs. And more importantly there is quite a large opportunity cost with this pickup given his cap hit.

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that he's not solving Washington's issues by himself. It does sound like this team is going to need some real help scoring the puck AND is operating on a tight budget due to the Wilson/Backstrom situations.

I was looking to speak more to the defensive play comments. I'm surely not an expert on advanced stats, so what you've provided as evidence of being "not particularly good defensively" is something I'm curious about. I just haven't heard that kind of thing said about Brown before. He's always been praised for his forechecking, defensive zone play and his PK abilities. These are the traits that earned him a spot on Team Canada and ultimately helped them win a World Championship.

I've had the ability to watch him as a player since he was in Erie and closely followed him while in Toronto and Ottawa. Unfortunately, these teams have all been relatively poor in terms of team defense. Some of those years in Toronto were decent, but they're beyond the years you provided for stats. The three years provided had him on very poor Ottawa teams (7th in Atlantic in 22, 6th in 21 and 7th again in 20) I'd argue that stats of many middle 6 calibre players would suffer on teams that were overall that poor (much so beyond a single RW) and finishing with an above replacement even strength defense on those teams is a small accomplishment in its own right.

Curious to see how he plays in Washington, but I'm optimistic that he can contribute more than what some folks are expecting. I won't be surprised if his talents earn him the admiration of yet another city's fanbase.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

On one hand, the stats guys are telling us he's mediocre, but the Sens fans coming in this thread are telling us he's a solid acquisition and an underrated player. I will reserve my judgment for when I see him play.

 

[HTFN]

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that he's not solving Washington's issues by himself. It does sound like this team is going to need some real help scoring the puck AND is operating on a tight budget due to the Wilson/Backstrom situations.

I was looking to speak more to the defensive play comments. I'm surely not an expert on advanced stats, so what you've provided as evidence of being "not particularly good defensively" is something I'm curious about. I just haven't heard that kind of thing said about Brown before. He's always been praised for his forechecking, defensive zone play and his PK abilities. These are the traits that earned him a spot on Team Canada and ultimately helped them win a World Championship.

I've had the ability to watch him as a player since he was in Erie and closely followed him while in Toronto and Ottawa. Unfortunately, these teams have all been relatively poor in terms of team defense. Some of those years in Toronto were decent, but they're beyond the years you provided for stats. The three years provided had him on very poor Ottawa teams (7th in Atlantic in 22, 6th in 21 and 7th again in 20) I'd argue that stats of many middle 6 calibre players would suffer on teams that were overall that poor (much so beyond a single RW) and finishing with an above replacement even strength defense on those teams is a small accomplishment in its own right.

Curious to see how he plays in Washington, but I'm optimistic that he can contribute more than what some folks are expecting. I won't be surprised if his talents earn him the admiration of yet another city's fanbase.

You just have to brush them off, if it’s not directly in the numbers they don’t want to hear it, nothing is ever human or intangible about the sport and (get this) defensemen don’t actually really improve after their rookie seasons.

 

[twabby]

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that he's not solving Washington's issues by himself. It does sound like this team is going to need some real help scoring the puck AND is operating on a tight budget due to the Wilson/Backstrom situations.

I was looking to speak more to the defensive play comments. I'm surely not an expert on advanced stats, so what you've provided as evidence of being "not particularly good defensively" is something I'm curious about. I just haven't heard that kind of thing said about Brown before. He's always been praised for his forechecking, defensive zone play and his PK abilities. These are the traits that earned him a spot on Team Canada and ultimately helped them win a World Championship.

I've had the ability to watch him as a player since he was in Erie and closely followed him while in Toronto and Ottawa. Unfortunately, these teams have all been relatively poor in terms of team defense. Some of those years in Toronto were decent, but they're beyond the years you provided for stats. The three years provided had him on very poor Ottawa teams (7th in Atlantic in 22, 6th in 21 and 7th again in 20) I'd argue that stats of many middle 6 calibre players would suffer on teams that were overall that poor (much so beyond a single RW) and finishing with an above replacement even strength defense on those teams is a small accomplishment in its own right.

Curious to see how he plays in Washington, but I'm optimistic that he can contribute more than what some folks are expecting. I won't be surprised if his talents earn him the admiration of yet another city's fanbase.

Again I don’t mean to say he’s bad defensively. He’s fine. Good enough. He’s just nowhere close to a top end defensive forward according to models that look at impact on goal differential.

I realize he’s played for some bad defensive teams but GAR models control for bad teammates and Brown still comes out as an unremarkable defensive player. Contrast Brown with Nick Paul, another former Senator. Paul does grade out to be a top-end defensive forward despite playing most of the past 3 years for the same Ottawa team that has struggled defensively. And that also seems to jive with his short time in Tampa Bay, where his strong defensive play continued.

It’s beyond the scope of this thread, but let’s just say I have a much different way of looking at defensive players compared to most. I really don’t care about stylistic elements of a player’s defensive game. I don’t care about hitting, I don’t care about size, I don’t care about forechecking, I don’t care about active sticks, I don’t care about how hard a guy appears to be working, etc. I care about impact on goal differential. Brown’s defensive impact on goal differential is ordinary, slightly better perhaps.

 

[Xspyrit]

Very confused by this assessment. Connor Brown finished 17th in Selke voting in 20-21 (despite playing on horrendous Ottawa teams) and has a reputation as a valuable PK player / middle 6 winger.

He's definitely not someone you lean on to power your offense, but to say his defensive play is "not particularly great" is something I've never heard said about Brown by any fan from Toronto or Ottawa, nor from any hockey pundits or professionals. Shoot, he was selected as an assistant captain on Canada's world champs team and only wasn't able to play for that team again this year due to being COVID positive.

It sounds like the Caps need much more for next season than what he can offer, but he's surely not a bad pickup on a contract year.

That's where "analytics" become totally Pejorative Slured. It's for people who never laced them up and don't watch hockey games. Don't listen to the noise

This nerdy assnalytics are too stupid to even take context into account. Connor Brown has gotten the hardest matchups and defensive missions possible in Ottawa, he has been the coach's swiss army knife in every situation. The average hockey fan doesn't have any idea about all of this, they might refer to hockeydb.com or analytics

Brown is a fantastic 2-way player, you gonna love him. Nice steal, abusing a poor ass budget team that needed to get the dollars OUT today for some reason...

Some might think wow they signed Giroux and got DeBrincat. It's true and it's great but they had to get Murray, White and now Brown money OUT to make it happen. Still a pathetic dollarama hockey team.

But if you want a more "realistic" read on Brown, sometimes some analytics match the eye test more

Capitals acquire Connor Brown from Senators for 2nd-round pick

The Washington Capitals acquired winger Connor Brown from the Ottawa Senators in exchange for a second-round draft pick in 2024, the teams announced.Brown, 28, has one year remaining on his contract at a cap hit of $3.6 million before hitting unrestricted free agency next season. He's been an...

www.thescore.com

 

[ScruggsCO]

That's where "analytics" become totally Pejorative Slured. It's for people who never laced them up and don't watch hockey games. Don't listen to the noise

This nerdy assnalytics are too stupid to even take context into account. Connor Brown has gotten the hardest matchups and defensive missions possible in Ottawa, he has been the coach's swiss army knife in every situation. The average hockey fan doesn't have any idea about all of this, they might refer to hockeydb.com or analytics

Brown is a fantastic 2-way player, you gonna love him. Nice steal, abusing a poor ass budget team that needed to get the dollars OUT today for some reason...

Some might think wow they signed Giroux and got DeBrincat. It's true and it's great but they had to get Murray, White and now Brown money OUT to make it happen. Still a pathetic dollarama hockey team.

But if you want a more "realistic" read on Brown, sometimes some analytics match the eye test more

Capitals acquire Connor Brown from Senators for 2nd-round pick

The Washington Capitals acquired winger Connor Brown from the Ottawa Senators in exchange for a second-round draft pick in 2024, the teams announced.Brown, 28, has one year remaining on his contract at a cap hit of $3.6 million before hitting unrestricted free agency next season. He's been an...

www.thescore.com

I'm always willing to listen to other ideas. I don't know anything about those metrics, so I've been curious.

In the end, twabby's argument is that the GAR model has a value assigned to Brown and they're comparing that metric to other players and assessing Brown like that.

Some of the things that twabby doesn't care to look at, I do. I value that stuff (like active sticks, hustling, blocking shots and positioning) because I was raised in the game and played for a very long time. The GAR stuff, from what I've read, is an estimate based on statistical models. It has grey areas in it and I wouldn't evaluate a player solely on it yet, but that's because I don't know how those numbers are assigned. I don't understand the bias for valuing that number above other things because I'm ignorant when it comes to that stat and what it really means.

My bias is that I know Brownie personally, spent many years around him and his family. Watched him play and watched him work. Shit, McDavid's mom stole my kid for half an hour in Erie. Only found out where they were once i saw them in the press box lol! I've seen Brown play with Toronto. I've seen Brown play with Ottawa. I've met his teammates and heard what his coaches have said about him. I shared the joy of his family watching him win the gold for Canada and I've always admired the intelligence and tenacity in his game. Can't wait to watch him play for my hometown team (and watch all of his extended family have to put on the Caps gear they've given me shit about for years!)