Conn Smythe Winners - Tiers (1980-Present)

[Hockey Outsider]

Kuznetsov may have put up more points but he was inconsistent and a more one dimensional player. Kuznetsov looked great when the team was rolling, as in he'd put he'd put up 3-4 points in games where the Caps dominated. But in tight games Ovechkin was the main guy dragging the team to victory. It was like Marner leading the Leafs in playoff points last year, because he piled up points in blowout games.

I looked at their scoring breakdowns and that doesn't seem to be case.

In the 2018 playoffs, Ovechkin and Kuznetsov scored/assisted on the go-ahead goal 14 times each. They scored/assisted on the goal that gave Washington a two goal lead 7 times each. They scored/assisted on the goal that gave the Capitals a three goal lead 3 times each. That's 24-24, exactly even.

The difference in their production is due to:

• Kuznetsov cutting an opponent's lead twice vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 3 vs Tampa - Kuznetsov scored goal to cut lead to 4-2 16:58 3rd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Tampa - Kuznetsov scored goal to cut lead to 3-1 04:21 2nd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Tampa - Ovechkin scored goal to cut lead to 3-2 18:24 3rd period (loss)
• Kuznetsov tying the game 4 times vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 4 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 12:55 2nd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 18:22 1st period (win)
  • Game 5 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 00:52 3rd period (win)
  • Game 4 vs Tampa - both players scored/assisted tying goal 05:18 2nd period (loss)
• Kuznetsov getting a point in a blowout (+4 goal lead) twice vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 2 vs Tampa - both players scored/assisted to make it 5-2 03:34 3rd period (win)
  • Game 4 vs Vegas - Kuznetsov assisted to make it 6-2 18:51 3rd period (win)

I think we can agree that Kuznetsov picking up an assist to give Washington a 4 goal lead with just over a minute to go is completely meaningless. (They both picked up a point on the goal that made it 5-2 early in the third against Tampa, so this cancels out).

Otherwise, the data indicates that the difference in production is because Kuznetsov was scoring/assisting on meaningful goals. Of the extra five points he scored, three of them were because he helped Washington tie the game, one of them was because he cut into the opponent's lead, and one of them was because of a meaningless blowout point. Drop the final point, and he still contributed to four additional meaningful goals.

Overall Kuznetsov scored more points in total, more primary points, more points in the third period, and more points in close situations (ie after that goal, it was either a tie game or a one-goal game for either team). He may have been one dimensional, but he was on the ice for the same number of goals as Ovechkin at ES (but played more minutes, and this was in front of worse goaltending). Kuznetsov had better plus/minus (a dubious stat, but people keep bringing it up). He had much less favourable zone starts. Ovechkin outscored Kuznetsov in only one of the four series (one was tied).

I don't think Ovechkin was a bad choice for the Smythe. He was pretty clearly one of the Washington's top three players. But, like with Crosby in 2016, I think it was the name and reputation that sealed the deal.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Kuzy was def the man that run. But i understand why ovechkin won

 

[um]

I looked at their scoring breakdowns and that doesn't seem to be case.

In the 2018 playoffs, Ovechkin and Kuznetsov scored/assisted on the go-ahead goal 14 times each. They scored/assisted on the goal that gave Washington a two goal lead 7 times each. They scored/assisted on the goal that gave the Capitals a three goal lead 3 times each. That's 24-24, exactly even.

The difference in their production is due to:

• Kuznetsov cutting an opponent's lead twice vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 3 vs Tampa - Kuznetsov scored goal to cut lead to 4-2 16:58 3rd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Tampa - Kuznetsov scored goal to cut lead to 3-1 04:21 2nd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Tampa - Ovechkin scored goal to cut lead to 3-2 18:24 3rd period (loss)
• Kuznetsov tying the game 4 times vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 4 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 12:55 2nd period (loss)
  • Game 5 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 18:22 1st period (win)
  • Game 5 vs Pittsburgh - Kuznetsov assisted on tying goal 00:52 3rd period (win)
  • Game 4 vs Tampa - both players scored/assisted tying goal 05:18 2nd period (loss)
• Kuznetsov getting a point in a blowout (+4 goal lead) twice vs Ovechkin doing so once
  • Game 2 vs Tampa - both players scored/assisted to make it 5-2 03:34 3rd period (win)
  • Game 4 vs Vegas - Kuznetsov assisted to make it 6-2 18:51 3rd period (win)

I think we can agree that Kuznetsov picking up an assist to give Washington a 4 goal lead with just over a minute to go is completely meaningless. (They both picked up a point on the goal that made it 5-2 early in the third against Tampa, so this cancels out).

Otherwise, the data indicates that the difference in production is because Kuznetsov was scoring/assisting on meaningful goals. Of the extra five points he scored, three of them were because he helped Washington tie the game, one of them was because he cut into the opponent's lead, and one of them was because of a meaningless blowout point. Drop the final point, and he still contributed to four additional meaningful goals.

Overall Kuznetsov scored more points in total, more primary points, more points in the third period, and more points in close situations (ie after that goal, it was either a tie game or a one-goal game for either team). He may have been one dimensional, but he was on the ice for the same number of goals as Ovechkin at ES (but played more minutes, and this was in front of worse goaltending). Kuznetsov had better plus/minus (a dubious stat, but people keep bringing it up). He had much less favourable zone starts. Ovechkin outscored Kuznetsov in only one of the four series (one was tied).

I don't think Ovechkin was a bad choice for the Smythe. He was pretty clearly one of the Washington's top three players. But, like with Crosby in 2016, I think it was the name and reputation that sealed the deal.

Impressive digging.

It's just my impression from watching the Caps in that playoffs. I found Kuzy was prone to going quiet from time to time where as Ovechkin often came out guns blazing whether offensively or physically. And on that Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson line Kuznetsov was the guy who benefited the most from his line mates work.

I don't find Kuznetsov's 5 extra points (1.25 points per round) makes up for his slightly inferior play.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I found it to be the opposite. One of the biggest differences between this Caps playoff run and others is that they didn't have to depend on Ovechkin to carry the puck through the NZ so much. Adding a capable multi-line puck carrier takes a ton of pressure off of Ovechkin and allows him to do what he does best...blow pucks past goalies.

I've demonstrated here in the past some of the pitfalls of having Ovechkin try to negotiate all that from the wing. With a somewhat balanced center at the wheel, everyone else could benefit more.

Kuznetsov was the easy Conn Smythe winner for me as well. But, like others have said, I understand why Ovechkin won it.

The one* time Kuznetsov bothered to step it up is the one time the Caps went anywhere. All the grit, all the clutch guys and all that were added over the years...it was rarely a guy that could take on multi-line puck carrying...that's not what Justin Williams does, that's not Troy Brouwer, it was too late on Shattenkirk, etc.

* - Kuznetsov was also really good in 2015. Accordingly, the Caps got to overtime of game 7 of the 2nd round. Their next "longest" playoff run in the Ovechkin era.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Coming back to this thread since I like that the time period is in the 4 round era onward. In this timeframe, something I was thinking about was what were the best cup winning postseasons that didn't result in a Smythe? To avoid multiple players on the same team, the player had to have been the 2nd best that postseason (or best if I think they got it wrong). I was going to do top 5 for centers, wingers, defensemen, and goalies, but with how much more centers than wingers there were, I decided to combine them for top 10 forwards. Though for goalies I couldn't come up with 5. Here it is, in chronological order, with bold indicating a player I think should've won the Smythe.

Forwards
1981 Bossy*
1984 Gretzky
1987 Gretzky
1990 Messier
2001 Sakic
2009 Crosby
2010 Kane
2014 Kopitar
2018 Kuznetsov
2020 Point

HM: 1997 Fedorov, 2021 Kucherov

Defensemen
1981 Potvin*
1983 Potvin
1985 Coffey
2003 Niedermayer
2007 Pronger

HM: 2012 Doughty, 2016 Letang

Goalies
1995 Brodeur
1996 Roy
1999 Belfour
2013 Crawford

For goalies I'm less certain of my picks, as I didn't even come up with 5. I picked Crawford cause he was the only non Smythe winning goalie I had as a top 2 player in his postseason. Who would be some other goalies you guys would have?

*I know Bossy and Potvin are both included for 1981, but that's because I thought they both deserved it over Goring, the only Smythe winner who won it when there were 2 more deserving teammates.

for D, i have 2006 pronger easily over 2007, although both were great, CS-worthy runs

in goal, brodeur in 2003 belongs in that top five, at least above crawford. my gut says it goes belfour, roy, brodeur in 2003, brodeur in 1995, crawford, but i have to gulp super hard to put belfour ahead of roy.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crawford wasn't even in the conversation for me in 2013. Non factor.

 

[VanIslander]

I went straight to see if the bottom tier had Vernon, Ward and Crosby. The had-to-go-to-someone-so-goalie-or-captain mentality.

 

[DRW895]

Impressive digging.

It's just my impression from watching the Caps in that playoffs. I found Kuzy was prone to going quiet from time to time where as Ovechkin often came out guns blazing whether offensively or physically. And on that Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson line Kuznetsov was the guy who benefited the most from his line mates work.

I don't find Kuznetsov's 5 extra points (1.25 points per round) makes up for his slightly inferior play.

After tremendous 2 points in 5 games for Carolina "Kuznetsov`s MVP witnesses" woke up again.

 

[DRW895]

Jonathan Marchessault Conn Smythe choice hints us that Sergei Fedorov can got his prize in 1997.
a) weak first round
b) woke up in 2-nd round
c) March had better number in general, but Fedorov contributes more in Red Wings goals. 25 point among 88 Vegas goals and 20 among 58 Red Wings goals.
d) both teams suddenly had good goaltending after goalies struggles in regular season.
Sad, but for a long time Conn Smythe was nearly "only-canadian" prize. Fedorov wasn`t even 2-nd after Vernon in 1997.

 

[Midnight Judges]

There are other aspects that favor Ovechkin over Kuznetsov. The Capitals blanked the Lightning in games 6 and 7. This was the toughest series they played. That was due to the Capitals clogging up the neutral zone. It was Orpik, Wilson, Ovechkin laying the hammer on anyone who tried to carry the puck across center ice. The Capitals beat up the Lightning in those games, and that had nothing to do with Kuzy. The Lightning couldn't get anything going because the Capitals bullied them and owned center ice. Physicality was key to that series, and afterwords lots of Lightning fans were calling their team soft. This article is indicative:

Over those two games, the Capitals outhit the Lightning by a whopping 85-46 margin. And while 'hits' can often be a misleading or misvalued stat due to scorer's discretion and possession (the team that possesses the puck more is going to be hit more), this is a pretty fair representation of how much the Caps beat up Tampa down the stretch.

After losing three straight, Washington came out with a startling nastiness in Game 6 and absolutely punished Tampa's forwards at every given opportunity. They looked like a desperate team, but it was more of controlled urgency than stupid violence.

That wrecking ball mentality seemed to take a toll on Tampa physically as well as mentally. They weren't as confident or as effective with the puck in the offensive zone, possibly because their forwards had to worry about which Capitals' player was going to steamroll them if they held onto the puck too long.

2018 NHL Playoffs: Five reasons the Tampa Bay Lightning were eliminated by the Washington Capitals

Breaking down where things went wrong for the Lightning

www.cbssports.com

Ovechkin, Orpik, and Wilson are each credited by NHL.com with 29 hits in that series. Kuznetsov had 3. Physicality was clearly a key to that series and coached into the plan. It worked. The Capitals were unlikely to out-finesse that Lightning team so they switched to the heavy game instead.

 

[daver]

I went straight to see if the bottom tier had Vernon, Ward and Crosby. The had-to-go-to-someone-so-goalie-or-captain mentality.

The 15/16 Pens have an argument for 2nd best Cup winner since the 2005 lockout with arguably the best "team effort" since the lockout i.e. many players had really good performances vs. relying on a few individual performances to carry the team; the 2009 Pens being at the top of that list. Their puck possession game was only bettered by the Wings in 2008.

They rolled out three #1 lines with a specific focus on having the HBK line exploit the other team's 3rd line and 2nd/3rd d-pairings. Crosby was centring a line made up of a career 3rd liner and an AHL callup who was terrible defensively. It was as effective for Crosby's line to keep the other team's #1 line from scoring and eat up the minutes of their #1 d-pairing as it was for the #1 line to contribute offensively. Against the Bolts and Sharks, Crosby stepped up in key moments and games.

Crosby was the centerpiece of that team. If the Pens were a middling regular season team that just hot at the right time then your comment would make more sense. If Crosby didn't have a winning pedigree throughout his whole hockey career and didn't have one of the best Captaincy legacies of all time then your comment would make more sense.

Not saying that this changes where he is ranked in the OP but too many people focus just on his offensive numbers or are triggered when "Two Smythes" are mentioned.

Ironically he has three, maybe four playoff runs that are better than his 15/16 run.

 

[LightningStorm]

After my post about the 10 best forward, 5 best defenseman, and 5 best goaltender cup winning performances that didn't win a Conn Smythe, I will now make that list for who I thought the best Conn Smythe winners were from 1980 onward. Still in chronological order as oppose to rankings.

Forwards
1980 Trottier
1982 Bossy
1985 Gretzky
1988 Gretzky
1991 Lemieux
1992 Lemieux
1996 Sakic
2008 Zetterberg
2009 Malkin
2017 Crosby

HM: 2004 Richards, 2018 Ovechkin. I find Richards to be arguably the most underrated performance. Ovechkin was the last one out for me, and this may sound arbitrary, but his being in my opinion a 50/50 choice between him and Kuznetsov that season was the reason he didn't make the cut when I was forced to exclude someone. The last 2 to make it were 1982 Bossy and 2017 Crosby.

Defenseman
1989 MacInnis
1994 Leetch
2015 Keith
2020 Hedman
2022 Makar

Goalies
1986 Roy
1993 Roy
2003 Giguere
2011 Thomas
2012 Quick

HM: 2001 Roy, 2021 Vasilevskiy

For the d-man and goalies, my mind is pretty much made up. For forwards though, I could be convinced otherwise.