Conn Smythe Voting

[tarheelhockey]

True it would've taken a Hasek-like performance to beat the Caps, but he also didn't help himself by being completely out of position AND letting goals leak through him and to the short side, etc.
It was like he forgot how to play goalie in the SCF. He was bad. Didn't implode, but he was barely average

It really wasn’t that bad at all. Before the final game, for a different thread, I went through and looked at every goal he allowed. There were only 1, maybe 2 goals where you’d say “that’s on the goalie”. The one where he stepped on the puck and it slid back into the net, and I guess you could expect him to stop a Carlson one-timer from close range if he got across in perfect position. Otherwise literally every single goal was a guy walking right in on him and picking a corner, tapping in a back door pass, deflecting it right in front of him, etc.

Seriously, go back through the game tape and watch how the goals develop. A lot of the time he made himself look bad by flopping around in desperation, but there was no real chance to make the save other than pure luck.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

It really wasn’t that bad at all. Before the final game, for a different thread, I went through and looked at every goal he allowed. There were only 1, maybe 2 goals where you’d say “that’s on the goalie”. The one where he stepped on the puck and it slid back into the net, and I guess you could expect him to stop a Carlson one-timer from close range if he got across in perfect position. Otherwise literally every single goal was a guy walking right in on him and picking a corner, tapping in a back door pass, deflecting it right in front of him, etc.

Seriously, go back through the game tape and watch how the goals develop. A lot of the time he made himself look bad by flopping around in desperation, but there was no real chance to make the save other than pure luck.

The GW goal wasn't on your list? 4:08 mark


That's a goal 99% of NHL goalies and about 97% of AHL/Junior goaltenders stop

But this isn't about just 1 goal. MAF looked rattled and bad the entire series. He ended up sub 900% I believe. At the end of the day you have to make a friggin stop.
He didn't and Holtby did, ergo Holtby CS > MAF CS bid

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Those who voted for MAF should have their credentials revoked

Conn Smythe == playoff MVP not Finals MVP

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Conn Smythe == playoff MVP not Finals MVP

Thanks for the clarification. I never knew that!
/s

 

[AKL]

At least Kuznetsov got close, since he was the one who actually deserved it

 

[tarheelhockey]

The GW goal wasn't on your list?

No, a goal from the final game was not on a list I made before the final game.

4:08 mark


That's a goal 99% of NHL goalies and about 97% of AHL/Junior goaltenders stop

Nonsense. His team made an unforced turnover behind the net where he couldn’t see it, then self-screened him on a one-timer from right in front of the net. He got the first shot. The rebound squeaked through and his defenseman was caught standing there watching while a Cap walked behind him to score.

That is not a junior-level goal against. That’s a team melting down in its own zone and asking their goalie to do the work of all 5 men. I don’t care if it’s Hasek out there, if a team is running around at will in your zone they are going to score goals like this one.

But this isn't about just 1 goal. MAF looked rattled and bad the entire series. He ended up sub 900% I believe. At the end of the day you have to make a friggin stop.
He didn't and Holtby did, ergo Holtby CS > MAF CS bid

You’re not a good evaluator of goalies.

 

[3074326]

Those who voted for MAF should have their credentials revoked

We're outraged over someone getting two votes?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You’re not a good evaluator of goalies.

I play net, so I tend to actually be more lenient on the goalie in general. Not that gives me some super duper credentials but I study most goalies more than say F's.

I'm saying that on the final goal, Holtby makes that stop and it doesn't leak through. But we don't have an alternate reality time machine so it is what it is, just like MAF's sub .900 SV

 

[tarheelhockey]

I play net, so I tend to actually be more lenient on the goalie in general. Not that gives me some super duper credentials but I study most goalies more than say F's.

I'm saying that on the final goal, Holtby makes that stop and it doesn't leak through. But we don't have an alternate reality time machine so it is what it is, just like MAF's sub .900 SV

You play net and you think a junior goalie plays that shot better than Fleury? Ok.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You play net and you think a junior goalie plays that shot better than Fleury? Ok.

Sure do
MAF was a product of being stuck in the middle of the goaltending and NHL evolution. If you look at his style/technique it's more like Martin Brodeur vs Patrick Roy. Broduer was a hybrid standup/butterfly guy and MAF tried to emulate that. Heck I'm kinda surprised he didn't come out and try to stack the pads on that shot

Unfortunately the way MAF was brought up and coached was a detriment to the way the NHL was trending with big bodied netminders. The Europeon's during this time were the first to emulate: hey let's take a huge body and a somewhat athletic guy and have him wall off shots and letting the puck hit you vs reaching and permitting holes in the stance.

Look and Henrik and Rinne's styles compared to say MAF and Cam Ward. Significant training/technique differences even though they were born around the same time.

There was a revolution well after MAF's Junior days and the way the Europeons trained set the stage for more success vs their N American counterparts. Now what is being taught in goaltending schools is what I mentioned above. A Jr goalie doesn't allow that shot to leak through underneath. . You can go to any goalie school in the world and that type of shot doesn't go through the wickets.

Their first order is always: NO PUCKS GO THROUGH YOU, seal the ice, arms tight. They would have been down on the ice immediately butterflying. MAF either picked up the shot late or he got stuck between deciding which save selection stance to pick, again because he's not a true butterfly guy.

And that's been his struggle for most of his career: deep down he's supremely athletic, probably the most athletic goalie since Hasek. Problem is shooters are so deceptive today with their sticks that he can't bait them any longer and counter their shot with either a standup or butterfly save tactic. Back in 2003 MAF wasn't dealing with that stuff. Basically it's hard to eliminate years and years and thousands of muscle memory repetitions.

If you asked MAF now and you could get the truth from him I bet he'd say something like: yea if I knew the way the league was trending I wish I would've had a goalie coach basically break my old habits and transform me to a true butterfly

Long story short, MAF gets stuck and struggles to determine what save stance he wants. This is why you saw the leaky goals and the flopping in the Finals