Blue Jays Discussion: Confirmed: Vladimir Guerrero Jr is still good at baseball

[Suntouchable13]

Catchers are just focused on catching. They have a lot of pitchers they have to deal with, they have to focus on how to help the pitcher get the other guys out. There are plenty other positions on the diamond that you expect offensive production from that good hitting from the catching position is not required. Of course, it's a bonus if you get it.

 

[Discoverer]

Catchers are just focused on catching. They have a lot of pitchers they have to deal with, they have to focus on how to help the pitcher get the other guys out. There are plenty other positions on the diamond that you expect offensive production from that good hitting from the catching position is not required. Of course, it's a bonus if you get it.

Yeah, and it's easier to accept mediocre/shitty defense at other positions. But a poor defensive catcher affects things so much more than anyone else, so those guys tend to move to another position or just not make it.

The defensive/framing/game-calling bar is so high that the pool of capable catchers is much lower than at most positions.

Edit: this was part of my argument in favour of patience with Jansen for a while, too. He had so much more to focus on than guys like Vlad and Bo that it made complete sense his offense wouldn't show up at the same pace.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Yeah, and it's easier to accept mediocre/shitty defense at other positions. But a poor defensive catcher affects things so much more than anyone else, so those guys tend to move to another position or just not make it.

The defensive/framing/game-calling bar is so high that the pool of capable catchers is much lower than at most positions.

Edit: this was part of my argument in favour of patience with Jansen for a while, too. He had so much more to focus on than guys like Vlad and Bo that it made complete sense his offense wouldn't show up at the same pace.

Yeah and he was still young. I was always on the Jansen train. Said it multiple time that if we trade him not to be caught off guard when all of a sudden he is a top 5-10 catcher in the game when he all of a sudden starts hitting. Take a peak at most of the best catchers in baseball, the offense starts clicking right around the age he is right now. Most young catchers aren't Buster Posey.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Santos 4.2 IP in Dunedin. 9 K, 1 hit(HR), 3 BB, 1 run.

58 K's in 29.2 IP this year. 19 years old. Welcome to everyone's radar.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Orelvis has left the building for the 14th time this season

 

[trellaine201]

Catchers are just focused on catching. They have a lot of pitchers they have to deal with, they have to focus on how to help the pitcher get the other guys out. There are plenty other positions on the diamond that you expect offensive production from that good hitting from the catching position is not required. Of course, it's a bonus if you get it.

That’s what I would have guessed. Teams are looking for defense first.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Tiedemann 5 IP, 4 K's, 1 hit, 1 HBP, 0 runs.

In 2 A+ starts his ERA is less than 1

 

[thehockeysong]

Orelvis has left the building for the 14th time this season

Power is definitely legit when combined this year and last. Now just need to see if the overall hitting profile can mature. He's the right age for that to be likely

 

[Canada4Gold]

With some of the breakout years some guys have had how would you rank our prospects? The first 4 were easy for me. It got quite tough very quickly after that. Going as far as 30. The groups of 5 aren't tiers, just to delineate visually without using numbers

Moreno
O.Martinez
Tiedemann
Groshans
Jimenez

Robberse
Zulueta
Beltre
G.Martinez
Santos

Lopez
Juenger
Carter
Machado
De Castro

Pinto
Palmer
Van Eyk
Kloffenstein
T.Morris

Taylor
Meza
Frasso
Dallas
Hernandez

Danner
Aponte
Francis
Hiraldo
Britton

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Morgs]

Power is definitely legit when combined this year and last. Now just need to see if the overall hitting profile can mature. He's the right age for that to be likely

The profile is crazy improved since an up and down start to a level he's like 3/4 too young for.

 

[Morgs]

With some of the breakout years some guys have had how would you rank our prospects? The first 4 were easy for me. It got quite tough very quickly after that. Going as far as 30. The groups of 5 aren't tiers, just to delineate visually without using numbers

I don't see how anyone could have any other guys in their top-10 if they're paying attention. I think the only thing Martinez is missing right now to be 4th/5th is a bigger track record.



You are missing my under the radar guy Barger in the top-30, but I'll allow it

 

[canucksfan]

Former Jays prospect, Josh Winckowski is making his debut for the Red Sox today.

 

[dredeye]

That’s what I would have guessed. Teams are looking for defense first.

Which is why I still don’t get the Reese trade.

 

[Tony Romo]

For anyone that follows the draft, does anyone have any idea what is going on with Kumar Rocker?

 

[weems]

I'd imagine this isnt a very popular take but Tiedemann could be our best prospect and should be ranked as one of the better pitching prospects leaguewide by seasons end if he continues his dominance.

This is how his current 19yo season compares to the two best pitching prospects in all of baseball Grayson Rodriguez and Daniel Espino's 19/20yo seasons.

Ricky Tiedemann 2022 Single A (-3.0 and -4.2 AGE difference)
39.2 innings pitched
1.59 ERA
0.73 WHIP
3.2 H/9
0.2 HR/9
3.4 BB/9
14.1 SO/9

Grayson Rodriguez 2019 Single A (-2.8 AGE difference)

94.0 Innings pitched
2.87 ERA
0.98 WHIP
5.5 H/9
0.4 HR/9
3.4 BB/9
12.4 S0/9

Daniel Espino 2021 Single A (-3.3 and -1.9 AGE difference)

91 innings pitched
3.73 ERA
1.12 WHIP
6.3 H/9
0.9 HR/9
3.8 BB/9
14.9 SO/9

Tiedemann's sample size is obviously smaller at this point but his upside looks insane.

 

[Blitzkrug]

For anyone that follows the draft, does anyone have any idea what is going on with Kumar Rocker?

Kumar is playing pro ball in the frontier league and will be eligible to be drafted again after telling the Mets to pound sand.

Scouts/pundits still have him in the top 40 of prospects so more than likely someone takes a shot at him in this year's draft. Injury concerns aside, his potential is too tantalizing to pass up on especially if he starts to slide deeper into the draft.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I don't see how anyone could have any other guys in their top-10 if they're paying attention. I think the only thing Martinez is missing right now to be 4th/5th is a bigger track record.



You are missing my under the radar guy Barger in the top-30, but I'll allow it

The only guy in my top 10 that I wasn't sure where to place was Beltre. No full season results, no results this year. The very pessimistic report from fangraphs that his tools didn't look good this spring. Wouldn't surprise me if he was not in the top 20 a year from now

If someone told me Barger was a top 15 prospect 2 years from now I wouldn't be shocked, but 22 years old in A+ striking out over 30% of the time and not walking much is a concern. Ideally you'd either like to see a guy crush a league in a smaller sample, have a couple years of good reasons(wRC+ of 120, 130 isn't bad but with that K rate still scares me), have a solid year at a very young age, or has decent results with pedigree(high pick, big bonus). He was for sure on the outskirts with some other guys I like but couldn't fit.

I think Britton at 30 is one of my faves. Weird catchers/outfielder combo, same name as the relief pitcher. Pretty good walk rate. Him and Barger have pretty similar results TBH.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Canada4Gold]

Gabby Martinez with another HR today. RBI single as well. He had 0 HR last year. Has 9 in less than 2 months. Wild

 

[Apotheosis]

I'd imagine this isnt a very popular take but Tiedemann could be our best prospect and should be ranked as one of the better pitching prospects leaguewide by seasons end if he continues his dominance.

This is how his current 19yo season compares to the two best pitching prospects in all of baseball Grayson Rodriguez and Daniel Espino's 19/20yo seasons.

Ricky Tiedemann 2022 Single A (-3.0 and -4.2 AGE difference)
39.2 innings pitched
1.59 ERA
0.73 WHIP
3.2 H/9
0.2 HR/9
3.4 BB/9
14.1 SO/9

Grayson Rodriguez 2019 Single A (-2.8 AGE difference)

94.0 Innings pitched
2.87 ERA
0.98 WHIP
5.5 H/9
0.4 HR/9
3.4 BB/9
12.4 S0/9

Daniel Espino 2021 Single A (-3.3 and -1.9 AGE difference)

91 innings pitched
3.73 ERA
1.12 WHIP
6.3 H/9
0.9 HR/9
3.8 BB/9
14.9 SO/9

Tiedemann's sample size is obviously smaller at this point but his upside looks insane

I like that he's a lefty as well. His upside looks immense. Having him, Manoah and Gausman in a single rotation would be insane. Gives the team some surplus to improve in other areas with starting pitching potentially solved for the foreseeable future.

 

[lebdafor norris]

He'll be an upgrade over Montoyo for the manager role, Shapiro should consider making the move.

 

[Kiwi]

Kumar is playing pro ball in the frontier league and will be eligible to be drafted again after telling the Mets to pound sand.

Scouts/pundits still have him in the top 40 of prospects so more than likely someone takes a shot at him in this year's draft. Injury concerns aside, his potential is too tantalizing to pass up on especially if he starts to slide deeper into the draft.

I'd want a physical before I'd use a top 40 pick on him, you can say what you want about the Mets but if his physical scared them off that much I'd want to know what's going on

A lot of the MLB are willing to take pitchers who are currently injured with Tommy John high so what the hell is wrong in that arm to throw him overboard?

 

[TGB]

Wouldn't be surprised if this one of the team's worst all time offensive months. Shocking to see so many players still sitting around the 20 RBI mark. One week delay though and they're starting to heat up, so let's hope the numbers drift back towards more normal marks after the week's up.

 

[hockeywiz542]