Concerning Losses

[DoctorPurple]

One of the few thoughtful threads here. Keep 'em comin'

 

[Runner77]

It's LIGHTS, great singer. You should check her out!

She's also my avatar.

Know fans who meet up with her whenever she's in town. Let's just say ... she looks way better with her make-up on.

 

[Habs_Apostle]

I would much rather lose in a one sided affair to the likes of Buffalo.
Many people have expressed their belief that MT is interested only in amassing points period.
We have had a very nasty habit of losing big games under his tenure. We are great a beating the bottom dwellers which is a fine improvement over some of our teams in the past; But i can probably count on 1 finger the must win games we actually won in the past three years. We couldn't beat the Islanders FFS to secure home ice in the PO's last year. Some say no big deal I disagree.

I don't think that's fair. We've won some very big games over the last few years. In fact, just when the poop seems to hit the fan, this team seems to get their poop together and pull through. I mean how many times have I heard that "MT has lost the team" and that "it's a complete mess" and that "this player is ruined" and then they go on this amazing run where everyone plays like a star.

Yeah, when we lose, we lose big. I think that shows that the team just didn't compete those nights. Mental and physical fatigue and motivation levels will vary and these nights will happen. Singling out a mistake by a player here or that some other player should have had a few minutes more/less of ice time in these cases, I think, is just silly. But I get people need to vent.

I feel that when this team is rested and healthy and shows up to play that they can beat most teams out there and be a challenge for those that remain. The regular season is a marathon. We just need to get to the end healthy and in a respectable position.

 

[ottawa]

She's also my avatar.

Know fans who meet up with her whenever she's in town. Let's just say ... she looks way better with her make-up on.

I've met her once, granted it was 4 years ago, but she looked good. I'm not a fan of girls with makeup to be honest, call me crazy but I find the natural look sans makeup more attractive.

So great to see another poster rocking her avatar though, lights army is strong on HF

 

[FF de Mars]

Lights sounds like the music from 90210 lol !

 

[Hackett]

The Tampa game and Pittsburgh losses were at the tail end of 4 games in 6 night stretches.

The Calgary game was the dreaded first game back from a cross Canada road trip... It wouldn't be the first time I remember the team laying an egg coming off that trip.

What I've gathered so far is that the team has failed miserably in the tail end of compressed schedules.... Something that won't be as applicable in the playoffs since both teams will face the same rigorous scheduling.

Having said that, its been a strange season so fa, with the feast/famine results.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think that's fair. We've won some very big games over the last few years. In fact, just when the poop seems to hit the fan, this team seems to get their poop together and pull through. I mean how many times have I heard that "MT has lost the team" and that "it's a complete mess" and that "this player is ruined" and then they go on this amazing run where everyone plays like a star.

Yeah, when we lose, we lose big. I think that shows that the team just didn't compete those nights. Mental and physical fatigue and motivation levels will vary and these nights will happen. Singling out a mistake by a player here or that some other player should have had a few minutes more/less of ice time in these cases, I think, is just silly. But I get people need to vent.

I feel that when this team is rested and healthy and shows up to play that they can beat most teams out there and be a challenge for those that remain. The regular season is a marathon. We just need to get to the end healthy and in a respectable position.

These games are obviously far from must win situations. They may not even be true measuring sticks at this point of the season but the fact remains we have struggled so far with certain top seeds.

Perhaps we don't see the same games as must wins? The must win games are usually 4 pointer affairs that happen in March and go a long way to solidifying your standing. We have long had a habit of choking in these games going back to before Therrien took over. MT has ensured we qualify fairly handily so some of these games may not be considered must wins. I think differently is all. Our last game in Tampa was a must win we lost it and ultimately started on the road. We had a chance to redeem ourselves against the NYI and played perhaps our worst game of the year.; another must win blown. Many games I've tracked where a win allows us to jump a club in the standings. We lose...
Therrien has a way of winning after the fact but I always look at it as a lost opportunity.

 

[S Bah]

The Habs need to play in situations like these to be ready for the playoffs, getting used to the highs and lows, playing so many games then having 3-4 nights off and going again. It's all about the playoffs!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's LIGHTS, great singer. You should check her out!

She looks very cute.

 

[habsnacks]

I was thinking this too, and it is pretty worrisome.

 

[Goldthorpe]

If the habs are good at winning tight games, then it follows that their losses (or most of them) are going to be blowouts... since if they weren't, we would have won them.

 

[crystal ball]

The problem is, the Habs have a very, very thin defense. This was supposed to be the year Subban took over as the stud All-Star on the blue line, and he's been pretty bad. After him, you've got Markov, who's overused, Tinordi and Beaulieu who aren't ready to carry big NHL minutes, Emelin and Gilbert who are fairly average D-men with some strengths and some costly weaknesses. Weaver's undersized and gets pushed around a lot and we don't know enough about 40 year old Gonchar yet.

The defensive errors can be covered up when the forwards score a lot and against weaker teams that don't pressure the D-men as much. But elite teams can contain the forwards and completely expose the weak D. They're soft and they back into Price, giving up way too many good chances. It doesn't help when they add brain-dead mistakes like Beaulieu's pass on the first Pens goal the other night.

Basically, unless the D is shored up before the playoffs, the Habs will get past grinding teams and those who are weak on defense themselves. High offence teams will decimate them unless Carey Price works miracles.

I expect to see the Blues run circles around the Habs defense tonight because this is an uncomfortable pattern. It's got nothing to do with youth or being tired or taking teams too lightly. It's just a matter of the D not being good enough to contain good teams.

Also, the systems need to change to help the D, which won't happen under Therrien/Daigneault.

 

[habsnacks]

It's LIGHTS, great singer. You should check her out!

She's also my avatar.

Know fans who meet up with her whenever she's in town. Let's just say ... she looks way better with her make-up on.

She is so good looking, crushin' since 2010.

 

[Scintillating10]

Price doesn't seem to play well against the top clubs. Must be something there, third time this season. Facing tad better shooters or game a touch faster most likely. Knocking off his timing. Habs only gave up 22 shots, sounds like they played a decent game other than netminding. .818% save percentage against Pitt, .845% in Chicago game, .826% for Tampa game.

Looking over some stats. In playoffs Price has a lower save percentage regular season also. .917% regular season compared to .909% playoffs. Facing better competition. Against Boston his numbers are good though. Boston don't have firepower of a Stamkos, Kane or Crosby types also. Last spring sweep of Tampa his save percentage could be better. .895% previous spring against Ottawa.

Try Tokarski next game we face high octane offense...see what happens. Just for hell of it.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Tokarski went in the 3rd of the Tampa game and got lit up too. Eye test. Man. You can't cherry pick stats without looking at the goals scored in those games.

 

[Sterling Archer]

You have every right to have your opinion and share it, I was just wondering what were your motives for posting in a thread that you seem to find irrelevant.

As for the rest, you seem to be overreacting a bit don't you think? Nobody but you used the word worry or panic. Notice I used the word concern, which indicates a lesser state of worry than your posts imply. Also, I think I sufficiently explained that it isn't a problem NOW, only if it keeps up.

i find it curious that you're starting a thread and than questioning the motives of people who post in it. My motives were that this thread was just like all the other short sighted threads and comments that convieniently occur after a Habs loss. Surprising how you didn't start this thread at any time during the Habs 6 game winning streak.

As for me overreacting that's your opinion and you're entittled to it. I think this thread is an overreaction and my original post was meant to point that out. Again, if you wish to open a thread and have a consensus, you're in the wrong place. Questioning the motives and the reaction of the people who post in a thread that's as pointless as this one is a great way to not have people comment in your thread. In fact, I'd say most of the comments posted have nothing to do with your OP anyways. That includes nearly all of my posts now and the ones about Lights.

I'm done here. Officially ignore list.

 

[Lshap]

These games are obviously far from must win situations. They may not even be true measuring sticks at this point of the season but the fact remains we have struggled so far with certain top seeds.

Perhaps we don't see the same games as must wins? The must win games are usually 4 pointer affairs that happen in March and go a long way to solidifying your standing. We have long had a habit of choking in these games going back to before Therrien took over. MT has ensured we qualify fairly handily so some of these games may not be considered must wins. I think differently is all. Our last game in Tampa was a must win we lost it and ultimately started on the road. We had a chance to redeem ourselves against the NYI and played perhaps our worst game of the year.; another must win blown. Many games I've tracked where a win allows us to jump a club in the standings. We lose...
Therrien has a way of winning after the fact but I always look at it as a lost opportunity.

Last season, the Habs did very well against Chicago, Boston, Colorado, Anaheim, NYR, and I think did okay against Pittsburgh too. We swept Tampa in the playoffs. Sure, we were slapped down against LA and SJ, but overall, our record against the top teams was very good.

This season is too young to render any worthwhile judgment on how clutch we are versus contenders. Minus Edmonton and Calgary (who will fall back), we've only lost to Tampa, Chicago and Pittsburgh. Let's wait another few weeks before we proclaim any pattern has emerged.

And how cool is it that we've had so few losses this season that we can list every detail off the top of our heads?

The problem is, the Habs have a very, very thin defense. This was supposed to be the year Subban took over as the stud All-Star on the blue line, and he's been pretty bad. After him, you've got Markov, who's overused, Tinordi and Beaulieu who aren't ready to carry big NHL minutes, Emelin and Gilbert who are fairly average D-men with some strengths and some costly weaknesses. Weaver's undersized and gets pushed around a lot and we don't know enough about 40 year old Gonchar yet.

The defensive errors can be covered up when the forwards score a lot and against weaker teams that don't pressure the D-men as much. But elite teams can contain the forwards and completely expose the weak D. They're soft and they back into Price, giving up way too many good chances. It doesn't help when they add brain-dead mistakes like Beaulieu's pass on the first Pens goal the other night.

Basically, unless the D is shored up before the playoffs, the Habs will get past grinding teams and those who are weak on defense themselves. High offence teams will decimate them unless Carey Price works miracles.

I expect to see the Blues run circles around the Habs defense tonight because this is an uncomfortable pattern. It's got nothing to do with youth or being tired or taking teams too lightly. It's just a matter of the D not being good enough to contain good teams.

Also, the systems need to change to help the D, which won't happen under Therrien/Daigneault.

You're not wrong about our defensive breakdowns costing us. But I'm hoping this is the area where the Habs can improve most over the season. Principally, the rookies need to gain experience. I'm staying optimistic that Beaulieu will filter a lot of those terrible mistakes out of his system if he gets enough time between now and April. Also, Tinordi better be given games so he can keep gaining confidence. I've said it a thousand time: Pace the vets, play the rookies. If Beaulieu and Tinordi aren't given enough time, we will be screwed. Undercooked rookies and burnt vets don't bode well for the playoffs.

 

[Lshap]

i find it curious that you're starting a thread and than questioning the motives of people who post in it. My motives were that this thread was just like all the other short sighted threads and comments that convieniently occur after a Habs loss. Surprising how you didn't start this thread at any time during the Habs 6 game winning streak.

As for me overreacting that's your opinion and you're entittled to it. I think this thread is an overreaction and my original post was meant to point that out. Again, if you wish to open a thread and have a consensus, you're in the wrong place. Questioning the motives and the reaction of the people who post in a thread that's as pointless as this one is a great way to not have people comment in your thread. In fact, I'd say most of the comments posted have nothing to do with your OP anyways. That includes nearly all of my posts now and the ones about Lights.

I'm done here. Officially ignore list.

Disagreeing with a point is fine. Dismissing it is not. There's nothing wrong with the OP posing the question, even if it's early to be drawing credible conclusions. If it's too soon to discuss the status of teams and players we may as well close down the entire board until January.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I'm not really concerned at this point. The team has quite a few new additions, a couple rookies moving in and out of the lineup on the backend. I'm more concerned about the process, rather than the results. The habs play has improved quite a bit from the start of the season as Gilbert/Bealieu/Parenteau/ etc adjust.

Still need to reduce those freaking stretch passes, but their play is coming around.

 

[Hemlor]

By now Leaf fans talk tanking, firing, drowning in Lake Ontario, beheading, and burning at the stake.

Don't forget about the brief talk of playoffs when they won 3 in a row, which were quickly drowned out by the talk of tanking/burning/trading...

 

[Habskrieg]

I'm not concerned, but I am unhappy. I don't think it really matters as long as you learn what is wrong and make corrections in time for the playoffs. If this were a playoff game, I would be worried. If this was recurring often, I'd be worried. Seeing as we're only 20 games in and that we've so far been blown out by the best teams, I don't think it is cause for concern, but rather readjustment.

Look, Detroit trounced Chicago. Then, we convincingly beat Detroit. This type of stuff happens a lot.

The big advantage we have from these games, is that we know how to correct our team in order to adapt to the best teams. Now, we just need to make the adjustments.

It's all good to be dominant in the league. But if you start having issues in the playoffs because your opponent knows what they need to do in order to beat you and have adapted in consequence, well, that's a problem because you've been used to playing the same way for a long time.

See San Jose, Pittsburgh and St-Louis in the most recent years. Or our defeat vs Ottawa a 2 seasons ago, we just couldn't adapt to them.

These blow outs suck mostly for our fans who bought tickets.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I'm not concerned, but I am unhappy. I don't think it really matters as long as you learn what is wrong and make corrections in time for the playoffs. If this were a playoff game, I would be worried. If this was recurring often, I'd be worried. Seeing as we're only 20 games in and that we've so far been blown out by the best teams, I don't think it is cause for concern, but rather readjustment.

Look, Detroit trounced Chicago. Then, we convincingly beat Detroit. This type of stuff happens a lot.

The big advantage we have from these games, is that we know how to correct our team in order to adapt to the best teams. Now, we just need to make the adjustments.

It's all good to be dominant in the league. But if you start having issues in the playoffs because your opponent knows what they need to do in order to beat you and have adapted in consequence, well, that's a problem because you've been used to playing the same way for a long time.

See San Jose, Pittsburgh and St-Louis in the most recent years. Or our defeat vs Ottawa a 2 seasons ago, we just couldn't adapt to them.

These blow outs suck mostly for our fans who bought tickets.

Agreed, my first ever game at the bell-center was a 6-2 loss to the flames where not a single player had a good game, the life was sucked out of the Bell Center 5 minutes into the game, it kind of sucked for my first game in the Bell, but I would do it all over again.

 

[Rapala]

Agreed, my first ever game at the bell-center was a 6-2 loss to the flames where not a single player had a good game, the life was sucked out of the Bell Center 5 minutes into the game, it kind of sucked for my first game in the Bell, but I would do it all over again.

That game was a horror I was there also.
The first shift we thought oh good they've come to play.
That lasted about 40 secs. It was all downhill from there.
I couldn't help but think the entire team was tuned out that night.
It went beyond being a first game back after a road trip bad...

 

[Takeru]

i find it curious that you're starting a thread and than questioning the motives of people who post in it. My motives were that this thread was just like all the other short sighted threads and comments that convieniently occur after a Habs loss. Surprising how you didn't start this thread at any time during the Habs 6 game winning streak.

As for me overreacting that's your opinion and you're entittled to it. I think this thread is an overreaction and my original post was meant to point that out. Again, if you wish to open a thread and have a consensus, you're in the wrong place. Questioning the motives and the reaction of the people who post in a thread that's as pointless as this one is a great way to not have people comment in your thread. In fact, I'd say most of the comments posted have nothing to do with your OP anyways. That includes nearly all of my posts now and the ones about Lights.

I'm done here. Officially ignore list.

I feel I might be losing my time replying to you since you decided to ignore, but for the records, here's my motive for opening this thread. I merely wanted to present observations about our losses. Why right after a loss? Because I believe 5 is the minimal sample size when you want to analyse a trend. What I did was present facts about our losses, and I included what I believe was a pretty moderate conclusion about my opinion on these losses. I hoped for a respectful debate on these observations.

As for the consensus, that was never my goal. I don't know what thread you've been reading but I saw some really interesting points from people explaining why they were or not concerned about this situation. I have no problem with contrary opinions, but I believe there's an appropriate way to state your point, that is with respect rather than ridicule as you did here. I believe that makes the debate more enjoyable and relevant for everyone.

 

[Rapala]

20% blowout rate is not good...
16 blowouts in 80 games is not good...