Compare Shane Doan with Clark Gillies

[MyDogSparty]

I'm curious how those who have seen them both would compare the two offenively, defensively, physically, HOF credibility, intangibles like leadership, etc.

TIA.

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[MXD]

I'm curious how those who have seen them both would compare the two offenively, defensively, physically, HOF credibility, intangibles like leadership, etc.

TIA.

Well, one was an imposing figure, and the other isn't.

Doan's leadership is overrated (that doesn't make him a bad leader), but the thing is... leadership often comes down to the rescue of players when other epithets are lacking, and that's a bit my perception of Doan. If Doan makes it in the HHOF, I just hope they induce +- 300 at the same time so nobody would notice.

IMO, he's a poor-man's Wilf Paiement, that's it.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Well, one was an imposing figure, and the other isn't.

Doan's leadership is overrated (that doesn't make him a bad leader), but the thing is... leadership often comes down to the rescue of players when other epithets are lacking, and that's a bit my perception of Doan. If Doan makes it in the HHOF, I just hope they induce +- 300 at the same time so nobody would notice.

IMO, he's a poor-man's Wilf Paiement, that's it.

I think Doan's better than you give him credit for, but your first sentence was right on the button. Gilles played on the first line of a dynasty team and was the most feared fighter in the league.

 

[xeric716x]

Doan wil never make it to the HHOF

 

[MXD]

I think Doan's better than you give him credit for, but your first sentence was right on the button. Gilles played on the first line of a dynasty team and was the most feared fighter in the league.

When I've written it, I had in mind that some people would say Gillies is a grinder with no talent, and Doan is an all-around offensive player with some skills to grind. Both are/were actually two talented grinders. But player with Doan's style will always have the LEADERSHIP thing to salvage them...

And yes... Doan is really a poor-man's Wilf Paiement (minus offence, maybe a better leader...), who's really underrated IMO...

 

[Big Phil]

Gillies > Doan. I've never seen the big fuss with Doan. Yeah a good player, but as we can see he isnt the guy that should be the best player on your team. Unfortunately he is. Gillies wouldnt have fit that mold either but he at least brought more to the table

 

[Trottier]

When I've written it, I had in mind that some people would say Gillies is a grinder with no talent...

And those people would be certified fools.

 

[Passchendaele]

Gillies is overrated. The guy barely scored 300 goals with Mike Bossy and Bryan Trottier, yet, he's an HOFer.

I don't care how good he was at fighting, he doesn't belong to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[MS]

Doan is almost surely a better hockey player than Gillies relative to the league around them during their respective careers.

Doan has averaged 30 goals/70 points per 82 games since 2003 despite having maybe the worst linemates amongst any all-star calibre player in the league (no-one other than Doan has scored more than 60 points for Phoenix in 5 years). Gillies produced only slightly better numbers despite having ridiculous linemates in a much higher-scoring era.

That said, Gillies was a key component of a dynasty and that counts for something. He was also much, much more feared physically than Doan is.

It would be interesting to know what Gillies would have done without Bossy and Trottier. He probably has the biggest 'linemate boost' of any player in NHL history.

 

[Trottier]

Gillies is overrated. The guy barely scored 300 goals with Mike Bossy and Bryan Trottier, yet, he's an HOFer.

I don't care how good he was at fighting, he doesn't belong to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Great, you can recite stats.

Did you see him play? (Didn't think so. Were your parents old enough to see him play?)

Ask Bossy and Trottier how much he helped them succeed. Those of us who witnessed it first-hand remember.

No HF poster is more wrong on more players before his time than are you.

Congratulations. Your silly generational bias makes for amusing posts. It may work on the kiddies board, but you're not going to disseminate your baseless tripe around here without being called on it.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Doan is a good player, and if he was ever on a team where he was a secondary player, he might really shine. He's been in a tough situation for a long time..but yeah no Clark Gillies.

 

[MS]

Ask Bossy and Trottier how much he helped them succeed. Those of us who witnessed it first-hand remember.

I don't doubt he helped them succeed (although Bossy and Trottier didn't lose a thing when Gillies was taken off their line post-1982 while Gillies went totally into the toilet).

But being a solid cog on a great team is not a HHOF quality, and solid players on great teams do tend to get over-rated.

Kevin Lowe would be another example. Very solid defender, very important player to the Oilers' championship teams. But I'd argue he was a lesser player than Brad McCrimmon or Mike Ramsey through the exact same timeframe. Yet Lowe gets a fair bit of HHOF consideration, while the other two guys would never get a serious mention in a hundred years.

HHOF players should make it there on their own innate greatness, not because they were 'very good' players who happened to fall into the right situation where they contributed a key component to a great team.

Bossy, Trottier and Potvin would have been superstars and HHOFers no matter where they played their careers and who they played with. That's a true, legitimate Hall of Famer. But if Gillies isn't drafted by NYI, is he remembered any differently than Wilf Paiement or Al Secord?

 

[Trottier]

I don't doubt he helped them succeed...But if Gillies isn't drafted by NYI, is he remembered any differently than Wilf Paiement or Al Secord?

MS, I purposely did not respond to your previous post because you get it.

And I do not suggest that Gillies was nearly the differencemaker that those other Isles were.

However, born in the 90s types who recite stats and then make de facto statements about a player they never watched should not be humored.

As for the HOF, I think waaaay too many fans take it too seriously. It's a museum. Not the Vatican. Big deal. If it were up to some, the HOF would be a five-minute tour lasting 10 feet of corridor.

If one does not consider Gillies a HOFer, fine. I personally could care less about his status. But do not defame the player, especially when one does not have the credentials to do so. (Not directed toward you.)

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Both really good players and great leaders. Gillies was far and away a tougher player, but Doan gets the edge in skill and talent. The book hasn't been written on Doan's career, and he has alot of years left, so he still has a chance to surpass Gillies. But being on the first line of one of the great NHL dynasties is a hell of an accomplishment and tough to beat.

 

[Passchendaele]

Great, you can recite stats.

Did you see him play? (Didn't think so. Were your parents old enough to see him play?)

Ask Bossy and Trottier how much he helped them succeed. Those of us who witnessed it first-hand remember.

So, Draper and Maltby are going to the Hall?

Gillies was an above-average player on a great team.

 

[MXD]

So, Draper and Maltby are going to the Hall?

Gillies was an above-average player on a great team.

Well, I hope you realize there's quite a world of difference between Maltby and Gillies, and that a Gillies is a much rarer prize than a Maltby.

It's wierd, but I think Milan Lucic would have Gillies career potential, if he was born like 30 years earlier. And, well, better hands. But he's still young.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I think people forget how good Gillies really was. They let the criticism of his HHOF induction cloud their opinions about him.

He was a power forward before the term was coined. He garnered two first-team all-star nods (78 and 79). Granted, it was after the Hull/Mahovlich/Bucyk glory dyas for LWs in the 60s and early 70s. He still beat Barber and Shutt for those honours. And there is something to be said about being the LW on one of the finest lines (the finest line?) in the history of the game.

I'm a big Shane Doan fan. He's one of my favourite players. Love his two-way game, his grit and his leadership. (Which is not overrated. He is the new Captain Canada). But he doesn't have that presence that Gillies carried with himself on the ice. When Gillies was on the ice, you knew it.

I think you realize how important Gillies was to those great Islanders teams that they're still looking for the next Clark Gillies. It's been a almost a quarter-century since he had his last big moments. And the Islanders still haven't found one like him.

 

[Trottier]

Well, I hope you realize there's quite a world of difference between Maltby and Gillies, and that a Gillies is a much rarer prize than a Maltby.

Rest assured he doesn't. After all, it's Passchendaele.

Who else would make such an absurd comparison?

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Bossy, Trottier and Potvin would have been superstars and HHOFers no matter where they played their careers and who they played with. That's a true, legitimate Hall of Famer. But if Gillies isn't drafted by NYI, is he remembered any differently than Wilf Paiement or Al Secord?

Wilf? Probably not. Secord? Would Secord have been anything more than an enforcer if he didn't protect Savard?

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

So, Draper and Maltby are going to the Hall?

Gillies was an above-average player on a great team.

Guys like Nystrom and Merrick were the Isles versions of Draper and Maltby. What an absurd comparison on your part.

If you're going to look at a comparison on the current Wings to Gillies, try Frazen, except also being one of the most feared fighters and hitters in the NHL.

 

[Passchendaele]

Guys like Nystrom and Merrick were the Isles versions of Draper and Maltby. What an absurd comparison on your part.

If you're going to look at a comparison on the current Wings to Gillies, try Frazen, except also being one of the most feared fighters and hitters in the NHL.

So Franzen would be an HOFer?

fighting is not legal, that's why both players go to the box after a fight. it shouldn't be rewarded.

the argument was that Gillies was an important part of the Isles' dynasty. but again, you could say that Kris Draper was very useful to the Wings from 1997-2008, in a shutdown role. but he's no HHOF material either.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

So Franzen would be an HOFer?

He's still young. At this point he looks like a gem. Who knows what the future holds though. He needs to do something remarkable to get in though, since unlike Gillies, he isn't unique to his era.

I'm not crazy about Gillies being in the hall, but he does have alot more credentials than Draper, Maltby ect.

 

[David Puddy]

Clark Gillies was named to the First All-Star Team twice in his career, 1977-78 and 1978-79. He also finished in the Top 10 in Points once, finishing 9th in

Doan has never made an end-of-year or finished in the Top 10 in goals, assists or points. His accomplishments do not compare to those of Gillies thus far.

Doan is more comparable to the Devils' Patrik Elias. However, Elias has been named to the First All-Star team once and finished in the Top 10 in points twice, so Doan falls short again.

PLAYER | GP | G | A | PTS | PTS/GP
Clark Gillies|958|319|378|697|0.73
Shane Doan|883|227|323|550|0.62
Patrik Elias|745|264|364|628|0.84

 

[vivianmb]

So, Draper and Maltby are going to the Hall?

Gillies was an above-average player on a great team.

gillies singlehandedly ended the 70's reign of terror that was destroying the nhl ( just ask terry o reilly and the bruins, or the "broad street bullies")if not for him , bossy probably lasts about 5 seasons.clark wasn't the biggest scorer, but without him the isles are no dynasty.and 30 goals six years straight is a nice feat.
doan's leadership ( on paper)is probably better as clark hated being captain.
but ,remember fighting was almost forefront in the nhl in the late 70's, so dont play down gillies toughness, like i said he dismantled many a goon ( right flyer fans?)in his day .and did it without ever topping 100 PIMS in a season.and every isles fan will tell you that he put that team ( who had been physically beaten up in the previous two playoffs) on his back in the 80 playoffs and brought them into that dyanasty with his leadership especially when boston tried to beat the isles up physically.
there were a lot of goons in the league back then and they didn't hide their attempts at taking bossy out. if you have only been watching hockey since bettman took over, you have no clue of the rampant violence that took place in the nhl in the late 70's. every team had at least one goon. the isles "goon" scored 30 goals and got 70-85 penalty minutes while the other goons were consistantly racking up over 300 minutes in a season!
hell this guy would have been a top three scorer on almost any team in the league and could kick the *** out of your toughest guy. very rare combination

 

[MXD]

Wilf? Probably not. Secord? Would Secord have been anything more than an enforcer if he didn't protect Savard?

Well, Semenko protected Gretzky and was nothing more than an enforcer, so I'm tempted to answer no...