Commercialization ruining minor hockey

[WarriorofTime]

As in all areas of life, just because someone is spending top dollar, doesn’t mean it’s always financially prudent to do so. I’m sure plenty more people here “could afford it” if they didn’t save for retirement, carried a high credit card balance, etc. Too often people associate spending a lot of money with “having” a lot of money.

 

[jetsmooseice]

So of course if you're a slam dunk for the WHL you don't need to bother with CSSHL-type money to begin with.

But I do kind of get it. You're making really good money. You love your kid. Your kid loves hockey (and you love hockey). So anything your can do to advance your kid's chance even a little bit may well be worth it - I after all you can't take it with you.

Zack Hyman is the example. Growing up he was always a good player, but never exceptional. His dad though spent millions of dollars literally buying teams for Zack to play on. The thing is - it worked. Hyman was drafted and has now played a lengthy NHL career. The thing is this shouldn't take anything away from Hyman - he has clearly worked very hard thoughout his minor and pro career. But lacking the kind of all-world skill he never would have made it this far absent his father's cash.

So look - if my household income was more like $500k+, rather than what it is, I may well try to send my kid to play at NAX. But that wouldn't be any kind of financially wise decision - rather it would be an emotional decision all about my kid.

If you are legitimately wealthy and can throw down Hyman-tier money on your kid's hockey dream without thinking twice about it, then for sure, do it... I mean, why not. As you say, you con't take it with you. I'd certainly do it if I was in that position.

But I'd wager that most people with kids in CSSHL, even if they are higher earners than average, they are probably making significant sacrifices to do it. Even if that "sacrifice" is nothing more than not buying a nice cottage, boat or whatever. And in that case, I doubt the CSSHL is going to elevate your kid from a decent player to a can't miss WHL/NHL draft prospect or whatever.

 

[Yukon Joe]

If you are legitimately wealthy and can throw down Hyman-tier money on your kid's hockey dream without thinking twice about it, then for sure, do it... I mean, why not. As you say, you con't take it with you. I'd certainly do it if I was in that position.

But I'd wager that most people with kids in CSSHL, even if they are higher earners than average, they are probably making significant sacrifices to do it. Even if that "sacrifice" is nothing more than not buying a nice cottage, boat or whatever. And in that case, I doubt the CSSHL is going to elevate your kid from a decent player to a can't miss WHL/NHL draft prospect or whatever.

I think I would agree. Obviously anyone short of a billionaire doesn't have $30k to just throw around. But we're talking about families where the decision is to send the kid to CSSHL vs hold off on buying a new vehicle for a year, or taking a local holiday versus an overseas holiday.

And I don't think going to a CSSHL school will make your kid a "can't miss" prospect - but could it take your kid from a 20% chance to a 60% chance of being drafted? Maybe (and to be fair I'm just guessing at the actual numbers).

And also to be fair - CSSHL schools have two different categories - regular and prep. Off the top of my head I can't even remember which is the higher one (I think it might be prep). If you make the prep roster you might have a meaningful shot at a pro career, but less so if you make the regular roster (or vice versa).

To re-iterate though - my kid doesn't go to a CSSHL school, I have no experience with those schools beyond talking to other parents, so if someone sends their kid to such a school and finds it to be a wonderful experience I have nothing that would contradict that.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Soccer is definitely a different system but my local MLS team the New York Red Bulls have instituted a free program for their U10 and U11 groups this year. Of course you still have to get your kid to that point to begin with but it's nice to see a team taking some burden off of families.

It's also different from hockey in the sense that NHL teams can't just grow their own local talent like the MLS can. We've had numerous players on the first team MLS team who have been in the academy since they were young kids and worked their way up the system so if these U10 and U11 kids do well they'll be kept in the system to go as high as they can.

A lot of soccer is like this throughout the world but drafts aren't a thing everywhere else. The MLS still has a collegiate draft but those players aren't anywhere near sought after like our other sports leagues.

They also have their own training grounds so that makes things easier because they aren't fighting for ice time nor paying for it. Even though it's still free it's also good marketing too because even if the kids don't turn out to be anything you have local kids and their families who still become a fan of the team. They have the MLS team players and coaches interact with the kids of all age groups so they get to see what it's like to be at the MLS level.

It's just a shame to me that hockey can't be more like this. I know the Devils run a first time learn to play hockey thing but it's still not free, they provide the gear and ice team but I think it's still like $200-300 and once you go through it you're done and have to go through whatever the normal programs are around here to continue playing.

Soccer still has a big pay to play problem in the US but I think as the MLS keeps growing they'll offer more programs and even at younger ages all across the academys and hopefully for free. If anyone's interested in what they offer...

Youth | NewYorkRedBulls.com

The latest news, scores, highlights and stats from the New York Red Bulls.

www.newyorkredbulls.com

My daughter started with Rangers Learn to Play. Seems like every team has it. Great program and a much cheaper way to see if your kid wants to play. Just about every player in our organization started with either Rangers or Devils learn to play and went from there. There is a Devils Youth Organization, as well as a Flyers in Voorhees, but it is certainly not free or any kind of academy for the NHL teams.

 

[Yukon Joe]

My daughter started with Rangers Learn to Play. Seems like every team has it. Great program and a much cheaper way to see if your kid wants to play. Just about every player in our organization started with either Rangers or Devils learn to play and went from there. There is a Devils Youth Organization, as well as a Flyers in Voorhees, but it is certainly not free or any kind of academy for the NHL teams.

I dunno - the Edmonton Oilers program seems more like PR then a meaningful attempt to get lots of kids playing.

First Shift | Edmonton Oilers

The NHL/NHLPA FIRST SHIFT program is designed to ensure a positive experience for new-to-hockey families.

www.nhl.com

So for $299 you get full head-to-toe equipment plus 6 one hour ice sessions with former Oilers. The price is pretty solid for including full gear, but really - if you're getting started at age 4 (First Shift starts at age 6) through my local program you can get a full session of 18 weeks, 45 minutes per week sessions for $215 early bird price and probably get away with under $200 for gear.

If you want to compare apples to apples at age 6 - cost of the program would be $445, but for a total of 18 weeks of twice per week hockey. Gear again probably not much more than $200.

I know maybe I'm coming from a place of privilege to say that $650 for 36 sessions is a way better deal than $300 for 6 sessions - but it is! Not to mention that ideally you do want kids to get started younger as they're just little sponges at that age in learning.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I dunno - the Edmonton Oilers program seems more like PR then a meaningful attempt to get lots of kids playing.

First Shift | Edmonton Oilers

The NHL/NHLPA FIRST SHIFT program is designed to ensure a positive experience for new-to-hockey families.

www.nhl.com

So for $299 you get full head-to-toe equipment plus 6 one hour ice sessions with former Oilers. The price is pretty solid for including full gear, but really - if you're getting started at age 4 (First Shift starts at age 6) through my local program you can get a full session of 18 weeks, 45 minutes per week sessions for $215 early bird price and probably get away with under $200 for gear.

If you want to compare apples to apples at age 6 - cost of the program would be $445, but for a total of 18 weeks of twice per week hockey. Gear again probably not much more than $200.

I know maybe I'm coming from a place of privilege to say that $650 for 36 sessions is a way better deal than $300 for 6 sessions - but it is! Not to mention that ideally you do want kids to get started younger as they're just little sponges at that age in learning.

Just about every rink in the NY Metro Area has Learn to Play run by either the Rangers, Devils, or Islanders. When my daughter did it (2019-20 and 2020-21), it was about $250 for 10 sessions. 2nd year was supposed to be a girls league, but turned into a girls house league as we came back from covid as they wouldnt allow travel. The rinks themselves push it for the novices as the pre-cursor to house league. Coaches are hired by the Rangers and Rangers alumni showed up from time to time to coach.

I also think getting "more kids involved" is a little easier in a place like Edmonton as it is in the NYC Metro area and other parts of the US. My nephew who lives outside of Detroit did Red Wings Learn to Play, but didnt stick with it. He was given the same exact equipment my daughter was given.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Just about every rink in the NY Metro Area has Learn to Play run by either the Rangers, Devils, or Islanders. When my daughter did it (2019-20 and 2020-21), it was about $250 for 10 sessions. 2nd year was supposed to be a girls league, but turned into a girls house league as we came back from covid as they wouldnt allow travel. The rinks themselves push it for the novices as the pre-cursor to house league. Coaches are hired by the Rangers and Rangers alumni showed up from time to time to coach.

I also think getting "more kids involved" is a little easier in a place like Edmonton as it is in the NYC Metro area and other parts of the US. My nephew who lives outside of Detroit did Red Wings Learn to Play, but didnt stick with it. He was given the same exact equipment my daughter was given.

Yeah that's probably just a difference between Canada and the US.

In Canada there are concerns about declining minor hockey registrations, but there's still a very thriving minor hockey scene with or without the Oilers being involved. As such very very few of the kids I know who play hockey came through the First Shift (or before that it was called 'Lil Oilers).

The advantage of the Oilers program is they help you with equipment - both in giving you equipment, but also in having a session dedicated to how to put on your gear. The minor hockey system does tend to assume you know a couple of things about hockey, so if you're brand new to the sport you're stuck just going to stores to get their help.