GDT: Columbus Blue Jackets vs New Jersey Devils: Close Hallcounters of the Nico Kind

[Call Me Al]

the devils played better against a hot goalie but last night was a shut out win with a better goalie the way they played it doesn't matter that 2 goals is given up should normally be enough to win

 

[Burner Account]

oh from what i've read, it was actually more than both. you also don't win a lot of games by having an incompetent PP, for example. there are a lot of factors in play. i'm just saying- when cory's playing well, it's possible we win a game where we only score once. with kinkaid or lack or whoever in net, the probability drops significantly. but, we ran into a hot goalie, columbus has always given us issues, it happens. on to the next one

Of course there's more to it. I just shared the simplest way to break it down.

 

[MartyOwns]

what does how many goals we have scored have to do with allowing a terrible goal? A terrible goal is a terrible goal, period.

I forgot though, you think that Wins is an important goalie stat though, so I am not surprised.

and the strawman begins lol. I didn’t say allowing a terrible goal has anything whatsoever to do with how many goals we scored. what I said- and I know you’re not stupid and you understand what I’m saying, so spelling it out like this is painfully tedious- is that we need to score more than 1 most nights to win a hockey game. if kinkaid is in net and we lose 1-0, and the only goal against was “terrible” it would be pretty hard to fault him on that too. I’m not much for analytics, but maybe someone more inclined can put together a chart for you. something showing the correlation between scoring more goals than the opponent and winning the game.

as for the second strawman, I never said wins were an ‘important goalie stat’ (in fact, i don’t think any of the common metrics used to measure goalies is all that important, unless you’re looking at a large career-esque sample size). but wins are of course very important, and all I ask for kinkaid is to give us a chance to win the game. allowing 2 goals gave us a chance, but their goalie was much, much better and we lost.

 

[BenedictGomez]

admittedly I didn’t see the game, but that strikes me as odd. he is disappointed kinkaid didn’t pitch a shutout? it doesn’t matter who the goalie is, 99% of the time you’ll need to score more than 1 goal to win a game. hynes ought to know that

The Devils way outplayed Columbus and Kinkaid really wasnt tested at all in this game, and he had another < .900 SVP outing. So I get where Skeletor is coming from.

The 1st goal I do put 100% on Lovejoy's multiple fails on one play, but KK needs to stop the second one.

 

[MartyOwns]

The Devils way outplayed Columbus and Kinkaid really wasnt tested at all in this game, and he had another < .900 SVP outing. So I get where Skeletor is coming from.

The 1st goal I do put 100% on Lovejoy's multiple fails on one play, but KK needs to stop the second one.

i agree that the second goal was stoppable, that's not the point i was making. and the save percentage argument doesn't hold a lot of water to me. as i've said, goalie stats can be cherry picked all day long to prove a point. i mean, there's a reason people are complaining about his save percentage being under .900 last night (it was.895, by the way) instead of quoting his last night's GAA, which was about 2.1 from what i can gather. one suits the HF narrative, and one doesn't...let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[BenedictGomez]

the save percentage argument doesn't hold a lot of water to me. as i've said, goalie stats can be cherry picked all day long to prove a point.

On an individual game basis, I agree. But there's no "cherry-picking" the fact Kinkaid's SVP through 27 games is only .897.

That's bad. How bad?

Out of all NHL goalies with at least 15 games played, Kinkaid ranks #51 of 55 (link below).

And the only 4 he "beats" are on non-playoff teams (and a few of the worst in the NHL). Aint no "cherry-picking" that!


NHL.com - Stats

 

[MartyOwns]

On an individual game basis, I agree. But there's no "cherry-picking" the fact Kinkaid's SVP through 27 games is only .897.

That's bad. How bad?

Out of all NHL goalies with at least 15 games played, Kinkaid ranks #51 of 55 (link below).

And the only 4 he "beats" are on non-playoff teams (and a few of the worst in the NHL). Aint no "cherry-picking" that!


NHL.com - Stats

we were discussing his SVP last night, not for the year. if you're saying he's not having a very good season, yeah i don't disagree with that. it's still unreliable to me- a few weeks back i removed the outlier against philly where he played 12 minutes and his season save percentage ballooned significantly. that's my beef with goalie stats, for the most part they don't allow for context.

you should all know what you're getting with kinkaid at this point, i don't know why you're all so shocked on a nightly basis. he'll give up 2 goals on 20 shots most nights, it is what it is. we need to score more than that to win games with him in net. certainly more than 1. that was my point, and it's not a nuanced or complicated one.

 

[Devilswede]

Just hard to fathom how they just can't beat Columbus no matter what they do. Can't be losing games in regulation to divisional rivals.

These are the games we HAVE to win, not games in Tampa.

Frustrating how there's very little supporting cast begund Hall and Hischier now. Palmieri to an extent too. But after that there's nothing. This team is in desperate need for secondary scoring.

 

[Devilswede]

And Kinkaid is so inconsistent. From a superb effort in Carolina to a stinker vs Jackets.

 

[New Jersey]

These are the games we HAVE to win, not games in Tampa.

see i understand the context but at the same time, why?

we lose in regulation in tampa we're in a playoff spot by four points right now instead of six. every game matters.

tampa game proves that this team can hang with the league's elite. columbus, meanwhile, has had our number ever since they got tortorella. coincidence?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Just hard to fathom how they just can't beat Columbus no matter what they do. Can't be losing games in regulation to divisional rivals.

These are the games we HAVE to win, not games in Tampa.

Frustrating how there's very little supporting cast begund Hall and Hischier now. Palmieri to an extent too. But after that there's nothing. This team is in desperate need for secondary scoring.

Problem is Shero will only make a ‘hockey trade’ which leaves me to believe he wouldnt move futures for a guy who can help now, even with term.

So who are we trading for scoring help?

 

[New Jersey]

Problem is Shero will only make a ‘hockey trade’ which leaves me to believe he wouldnt move futures for a guy who can help now, even with term.

So who are we trading for scoring help?

implying that we're one or two pieces away from a cup run. we're not. more like four to six.

 

[MartyOwns]

Problem is Shero will only make a ‘hockey trade’ which leaves me to believe he wouldnt move futures for a guy who can help now, even with term.

So who are we trading for scoring help?

i don't think we need 'help now' if it comes at the expense of our future...just my 2 cents. i think/hope shero feels the same way

 

[mtnet]

The Devils way outplayed Columbus and Kinkaid really wasnt tested at all in this game, and he had another < .900 SVP outing. So I get where Skeletor is coming from.

The 1st goal I do put 100% on Lovejoy's multiple fails on one play, but KK needs to stop the second one.

Agreed, 1st goal on LJ but that 2nd needs to be a save, period. Letting in 2 goals in is not the end of the world but when you play well enough to hold a team to only 19 shots, allowing one stinker can be the difference in a game. We generated scoring chances but Bobrovsky was on his game, the guy is good.

 

[New Jersey]

our record in-division is very similar to our record overall, casual reminder.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

i don't think we need 'help now' if it comes at the expense of our future...just my 2 cents. i think/hope shero feels the same way

implying that we're one or two pieces away from a cup run. we're not. more like four to six.

Even if Hall loves it here now and ‘we werent expected to make it anyway’- it is not okay to miss the playoffs this season. Not for keeping Hall around and not for the team’s mentality.

People seem to have this idea that trades or acquisitions are suddenly easier in the off-season and have less downsides. Sure we can try and sign JvR, but we will have to outbid others and then we may have cap issues later on with Hall, Hischier, Bratt, etc etc.. needing contracts.

No I dont trade assets for a JvR and the market is crazy prices right now - but people are not wanting to make moves for the wrong reasons. Giving up ‘futures’ to help the ‘future’ ... i dont get it.

No GM in their right mind is saving for 5-7 years down the line and doesnt care about the 1-4 in between. If the Devils miss the playoffs this season it would be devestating. Hall would be extremely upset.

 

[New Jersey]

Even if Hall loves it here now and ‘we werent expected to make it anyway’- it is not okay to miss the playoffs this season. Not for keeping Hall around and not for the team’s mentality.

"making the playoffs" and "cup run" are two different things in my book.

are we good enough to make the playoffs? yes. are we good enough to beat tampa bay, boston, or washington in a seven-game series? very questionable.

also, we're a john carlson and the continued development of steve santini away from me not worrying about defense anymore.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

The last thing we need is our best player by a wide margin being devestated because we missed the playoffs because Shero didn’t get him more help. He told Hall to step it up this year - now its Shero’s turn (no that doesnt mean he hasn’t done well but its like Tavares wanting moves from Snow, just to a much lesser extent without the fear of walking this offseason)

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

"making the playoffs" and "cup run" are two different things in my book.

are we good enough to make the playoffs? yes. are we good enough to beat tampa, boston, or washington in a seven-game series? very questionable.

Who mentioned cup runs?

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Even with Johansson up we needed help - so if we dont acquire at least a top 9 player then I very much disagree with Shero’s take on this season. And I think its a slap in the face to Taylor MVP Hall

 

[New Jersey]

Who mentioned cup runs?

your desire for "hockey trades" right now implies that you feel this team isn't good enough as it's constructed at this very moment to make it as a wild card. i disagree.

if we had a few more expendable assets and had about ten more points in the standings, yeah, go get rentals right now, but that's not where we are. best thing for this team is to let them fight until the last few games, eek into the dance, and let our young guys and hall get their first sniff.

shero is gonna make moves this summer. big moves. think expensive ufa defenseman moves.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

your desire for "hockey trades" right now implies that you feel this team isn't good enough as it's constructed at this very moment to make it as a wild card. i disagree.

if we had a few more expendable assets and had about ten more points in the standings, yeah, go get rentals right now, but that's not where we are. best thing for this team is to let them fight until the last few games, eek into the dance, and let our young guys and hall get their first sniff.

shero is gonna make moves this summer. big moves. think expensive ufa defenseman moves.

I dont want to sound rude but lets not try and intepret what im saying past what i wrote - I know thats hard because its text and it needs to be intepreted but lets not accuse me of saying things I didnt.

I want a hockey trade or two to improve this team so we make the playoffs. Thats it! First round exit would suck but its a taste of it for the kids and Hall.

Missing the playoffs this season is not acceptable and is a total slap in Taylor’s face

 

[Its a Trap]

Team needs to show the can respond to a loss in a manner that doesn’t involve losing multiple games in a row.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

The team as currently constructed is a bubble team with Schneider out, even then its a wildcard/3rd spot team.

A top 9 player has to be acquired before the deadline unless Johansson is expected back by then - which is near impossible

 

[New Jersey]

I dont want to sound rude but lets not try and intepret what im saying past what i wrote - I know thats hard because its text and it needs to be intepreted but lets not accuse me of saying things I didnt.

lol you're not being rude. i'm just trying to pick at your thoughts, that's all.

if you feel that this team, as it's constructed, still needs one or two more pieces to assure a playoff spot, that's valid. i still disagree, but no one's invalidating what you're saying.