Colorado's domination

[Mac Attack]

Wont happen. It´s funny to watch McDavid and Draisaitl go to work. no doubt. But i would say the rest of this Edmonton-Squad, especially D and G wont be able to hold the Fort against a healthy AVS-Team, Tampa or even Vegas in a 7-game-series.

I agree. I was just mentioning their only shot at it.

 

[Bounces R Way]

As good as the Duchene deal turned out I think the Burakovsky and Kadri deals took them to a new level. Byram, Makar, Girard for the next however long is a disgusting blueline.

Would have to designate them the favourite to come out of the West, but still not convinced they're a heavy one. Going to have to go through Vegas or St Louis and those teams will be a bear in a playoff series.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Have you ever seen what Jaccob Slavin can do to Connor McDavid? Go ahead and watch some clips. He may be the only defender in the NHL with the skating chops to defend him or MacKinnon.

Did you sleep under a stone while the Leafs kept Drai and McDavid to zero points over three games?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

My argument is that I still think that Tampa, Carolina, and the Islanders are better than the Avs. I think that the Canes, in particular, are a mismatch for Colorado because of how built up they are on the back end.

And the Avs defense would have an absolute field day with that Canes forward group.


We give up like 24 shots a night. Our Defense is probably the best in the league.

 

[avsfan9]

Dominantly overrated????

 

[tucker3434]

Strong win last night. It's one thing to do that to the Wild or Yotes, but another to do it to Vegas. Creating a trend of outshooting them will serve us well in the long run.

 

[flyfysher]

I saw other teams mentioned for comparison. It’s not just that the Avs have foregone the anchor for PMD. It’s that each of their top 4 is an elite (or near elite) skater. Just saying they have 4 puckmovers doesn’t tell the story.

I know opinions will differ as to what is an elite skater. And I’m not saying the Avs D are without flaw. But skating isn’t one of them. And I’d say the emphasis on skating would be the one thing differentiating this group.

Someone correctly brought up Makar and Byram being high draft picks. That’s true. But where you really see the quality of mgt is how they did their research on Toews and then exploited the opportunity. And if that’s not enough, Barron’s skill set is pretty much the epitome of what the Avs have been about in terms of how they built this defense.

Part of its luck (if you want to call it that). The Avs awful season saw us only get the 4th pick. But we picked Makar at 4 so it worked out ok. I’d be interested in knowing if they took Makar with this end game in mind.

At one point the Avs had MacKinnon, O’Reilly, and Duchene. But during this time, they’d routinely get trapped in their own zone because our D was absolutely awful. They couldn’t clear the puck. So it wouldn’t surprise me if the frustration from this time served as the impetus for how they put together this defense.

I agree with your premise. I am sure Sakic would have drafted Heiskanen or Makar assuming they were available over Pratt and Hischier.

Do you recall Sakic telling Avs fans that the cost of acquiring a ready to go 1D via trade or FA was too costly?

Admittedly, the Avs got really lucky with Makar but you have to give Sakic credit for building that D corps.

 

[BlackTipReefer]

Getting Toews for 2 2nds is just absurd. If they traded him today, they easily get a 1st+very good prospect. Huge win for Sakic.

 

[Avelanche]

My argument is that I still think that Tampa, Carolina, and the Islanders are better than the Avs. I think that the Canes, in particular, are a mismatch for Colorado because of how built up they are on the back end.

I’ll believe slavin and the fearful doggie Hamilton can shut down the avs top two lines when I see it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Why is that the only people out there who understand that guys like Jost, Nichushkin and Donskoi are great hockey players are fans of the teams who get dominated by them?

I suggest all those East Coast fans who wake up at 7AM and rush to HF boards to talk down about all those players they never stayed up to watch the night before should take a night and actually watch.

Colorado made Vegas look like they belong in a different league last night and they did it in what had to be Nathan Mackinnon’s worst game of the season. Hell, even that Kadri line had a night off. The Avs bottom six were dominant yet again (along with their defense Corp obviously) yet non-watchers will just google Tyson Jost’s goal total and claim they suck.

 

[TomppaKoo]

For the suggestion of Canes being better than Avs... I see Carolina Hurricanes as Colorado Avalanche lite. Both have quite similar up-tempo style of play, overall very similar defense corps in talent and the way they play the game. The difference is that Avs have 2 super stars and their forward group is Big, Strong, fast and skilled while Carolinas forward group is very skilled and fast.

Anyways, these are two of my favorite teams in the NHL because of the style of hockey they play today, hence wanted to give my two cents in this discussion.

 

[seancolorado]

For the suggestion of Canes being better than Avs... I see Carolina Hurricanes as Colorado Avalanche lite. Both have quite similar up-tempo style of play, overall very similar defense corps in talent and the way they play the game. The difference is that Avs have 2 super stars and their forward group is Big, Strong, fast and skilled while Carolinas forward group is very skilled and fast.

Anyways, these are two of my favorite teams in the NHL because of the style of hockey they play today, hence wanted to give my two cents in this discussion.

All great points but still I wouldn't want to face the Hurricanes style of team after an entire season of West hockey. We've never had a season where you only play the same teams, so it's one thing to figure out the Wild or solve MAF for a game, but it's another to be like that against the majority of the top teams, East or West, in a normal season

For that reason I am really looking forward to the playoffs this year. Think it's going to be exciting facing a team for the first time in a do or die scenario

 

[SimpleJack]

LOL at thinking the Canes are better than the Avs. What a bad take.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

LOL at thinking the Canes are better than the Avs. What a bad take.

If not better, they're incredibly close. Personally, I think Hamilton is Makar's equal in terms of overall positive impact/value added to the team. Trocheck vs. Kadri is also a very close call on who's preferable, at least this season. Where the Avs have us beat is that MacKinnon >> Aho, Rantanen > Teravainen, Donskoi > Fast, Nichushkin > Foegele, and Landeskog > Svechnikov. OTOH, I think Staal >> Jost, Necas > Burakovsky, Nino = Saad, Slavin > Toews, Skjei > Graves, and Pesce > Girard. So again, it's close.

 

[SimpleJack]

And I need to point this out: I'm not saying that Colorado isn't a great team. They ARE a great team. They have a lot of flaws, however, particularly when it comes to the bottom half of their roster. Tyson Jost and Pierre-Edouard Bellemare are their third and fourth line centers. Not bad players by any stretch, but compared to a team like Tampa that can throw Yanni Gourde in as the 3C or Carolina, who can throw Jordan Staal into the 3C spot? No comparison. Also, I think that a top-4 defense of Slavin, Hamilton, Skjei, and Pesce has the kind of skating chops that can keep up tit-for-tat with Colorado's group of Makar, Toews, Girard, and Graves (Slavin and Skjei, in particular, are excellent skaters), and Hamilton produces offense at an equally prolific rate to Makar. Throw in the fact that Necas and Svechnikov are emerging winger talents, Aho is an elite offensive centerman, and Trocheck was producing at a 1C rate as a 2C before his injury? There's a lot behind why Carolina has a better winning percentage than Colorado.

As a Hawks fan I’ve seen the Canes several times this season. A very good team.

Avs are on another level. MacKinnon alone is enough to put them on top in this debate. Rantanen is the best winger on both rosters combined. The Avs are just as deep and skilled only with more size, and better top end talent. Makar is the best defenseman, though Slavin is very close. Overall D cores are very similar but again the Avs top end talent/firepower is just too overwhelming.

There’s really zero reason anyone should look at both rosters(fully healthy) and come to the conclusion that the Canes are superior. Unless they’re just being biased.

 

[SimpleJack]

If not better, they're incredibly close. Personally, I think Hamilton is Makar's equal in terms of overall positive impact/value added to the team. Trocheck vs. Kadri is also a very close call on who's preferable, at least this season. Where the Avs have us beat is that MacKinnon >> Aho, Rantanen > Teravainen, Donskoi > Fast, Nichushkin > Foegele, and Landeskog > Svechnikov. OTOH, I think Staal >> Jost, Necas > Burakovsky, Nino = Saad, Slavin > Toews, Skjei > Graves, and Pesce > Girard. So again, it's close.

Makar is definitely better than Hamilton

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Makar is definitely better than Hamilton

Highly debatable. Both are freakish offensive talents from the blueline. Analytics between the two tend to be strongly comparable. Makar's the better skater and playmaker and Hamilton's the better shooter and stretch passer. Both are equally good at the possession game. IMO, they're basically equivalent Norris-caliber guys, which is why my debate turned to the forwards. Canes have more depth, particularly on the 3rd line, while the Avs have more top-end talent.

 

[jeffff]

Wont happen. It´s funny to watch McDavid and Draisaitl go to work. no doubt. But i would say the rest of this Edmonton-Squad, especially D and G wont be able to hold the Fort against a healthy AVS-Team, Tampa or even Vegas in a 7-game-series.

The Oilers actually play well against the Avs and Vegas.

6-5 against Vegas all time and 7-4 against the Avs in their last 11. I won't mention Tampa though, it doesn't support my argument haha

The Avs are definitely one of my favorites to watch, exciting team. I'd love to see a Avs/Oilers payoff series.

 

[Chips]

Highly debatable. Both are freakish offensive talents from the blueline. Analytics between the two tend to be strongly comparable. Makar's the better skater and playmaker and Hamilton's the better shooter and stretch passer. Both are equally good at the possession game. IMO, they're basically equivalent Norris-caliber guys, which is why my debate turned to the forwards. Canes have more depth, particularly on the 3rd line, while the Avs have more top-end talent.

What was the last dose of Hamilton advance stats you got, when? I’m genuinely asking because I haven’t seen them, but Makar has some truly freakish stats right now, and just watching him it’s predictable he’d be going great in those regards too.

70% zone exits with control of the puck is insane. Roman Josi is number two with 59%

the whole Avs team has had about 10 games with 60% expected goals... and they’re actually scoring about that pace against including dominating games against the Knights and Wild (who some people here seem to selectively choose when to call great or bad. They had been playing great both this season and entering those games for a few weeks.)

much of that is their unfairly good top 3 D together, but Makar is disproportionately contributing to that out of them. He’s an elite transition D in a transition league and a very good scorer, very good at getting pucks actually through traffic and on net consistently. Easily easily one of the very best skaters in the league


Again, I’m genuinely asking about Hamilton because I won’t directly say Makar is better without actually knowing his impact stats and I haven’t watched the Canes as much, but I can’t imagine Makar could possibly be any worse than even-with Hamilton. I do know Hamilton is very good tho and has been a Norris contender before


Hedman is easily the favorite for the Norris right now, but Makar was right up near the very top before his injury, and he hasn’t played enough games since he’s been back to have a decent since-injury sample, but considering how terrific he’s been these past few games, and how much more dominant his team is with him on the ice, I can’t imagine his stats have gone down too much lol. The main knock against him is the number of missed games, but if he stays healthy the rest of the season I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s top 2

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Highly debatable. Both are freakish offensive talents from the blueline. Analytics between the two tend to be strongly comparable. Makar's the better skater and playmaker and Hamilton's the better shooter and stretch passer. Both are equally good at the possession game. IMO, they're basically equivalent Norris-caliber guys, which is why my debate turned to the forwards. Canes have more depth, particularly on the 3rd line, while the Avs have more top-end talent.

I’m sorry what? Dougie Hamilton has comparable analytics to Cale Makar? You realize Makar is having a historic season analytically speaking right? Like levels that Dom and Sznajder just can’t even fathom.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I’m sorry what? Dougie Hamilton has comparable analytics to Cale Makar? You realize Makar is having a historic season analytically speaking right? Like levels that Dom and Sznajder just can’t even fathom.

Comparable does not mean better. Listen to my language.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Until they get over there game 7 demons, none of this means shit honestly. They need to stay healthy and do this when it matters.

Game 7 demons? They've played two of them, one of them on the road and had a nonsense offside goal erased (nonsense due to the way the rule exists), and the other was played with an injury-crippled team. That's not nearly enough for me to think or suggest the Avs have a bugaboo problem in Game 7's.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The Oilers actually play well against the Avs and Vegas.

6-5 against Vegas all time and 7-4 against the Avs in their last 11. I won't mention Tampa though, it doesn't support my argument haha

The Avs are definitely one of my favorites to watch, exciting team. I'd love to see a Avs/Oilers payoff series.

LOL what is this? Their last 11 games against the Avs? How far back are you going to go? Just as well to use stats from the 90’s too. They haven’t played Colorado this year and they played them twice last year where they split those two games and the game Edmonton won was against Werner in his first ever NHL start and he hasn’t played a game since lol. To top it off Rantanen and Landeskog were both missing from the Avs lineup

Since the Avs have added Makar, Kadri, Burakovsky, Nichushkin and Donskoi to their lineup they have played 2 games against one another. Since adding Saad, Toews and Byram they’ve played zero games against each other yet you’re going to use a 5 year sample size to determine the Oilers play the Avs well?

Im not saying the Oilers can or can’t play Colorado well. But it’s completely absurd to say they do based on a sample size that’s made up of a completely different roster.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Comparable does not mean better. Listen to my language.

I didn’t say it did. But to me comparable means similar which those two players certainly aren’t from an analytical perspective like you suggest.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The attempt to talk down Colorado's roster has been a bust. I'd let it go.

If you're looking for a reason why the Canes could beat the Avs, it's special teams. The Canes have the #1 PP in the league at the moment. All it takes to change a series is a hot power play. It's demoralizing to feel like you're about to give up a GA when your team takes a penalty. You can see it in the body language of the players on the ice and how the momentum shifts. Yes, I'm aware that Colorado has a top PK. Carolina's was good to great over the past 2 years, but it didn't mean a damn thing against Boston ultimately.