Proposal: Colorado - Columbus

[Cousin Eddie]

To Colorado
Boone Jenner
David Savard or Ryan Murray

To Columbus
Tyson Jost/JT Compher
Sampo Ranta
Justus Annunen
2020 1st
Conditional 2nd rounder based on playoff success or something.

Click to read more...

 

[Viqsi]

It's a fair enough try, but I don't think it fits.

• Jost is a significant downgrade on Jenner at a position we absolutely cannot afford downgrades on. Compher isn't really a good alternative, as we've got a metric ****ton of RWs.
• Ranta is kinda-sorta interesting, but if we're giving up two roster players, I'd want someone we can expect to have in the professional ranks next year. Is he at that level yet?
• All I know about Annunen is that he's a goaltending prospect, but that's more than enough information. We have tons of goaltending prospects, several of very high quality - oh, and Korpisalo is actually playing well now, so we're in no hurry.
• The 1st, while late, is of some interest. Ditto a conditional 2nd. Not sure if it's enough to overcome the rest, though.

Bottom line is, while there's some sort of interesting assets in there, there's nothing about this that stands out to me and says "yes, this is totally worth losing our stand-in #2C and another roster player". We can get away with moving someone like Murray for a package of mostly-futures, but not Jenner - not unless we manage to get a center from some other supplier, and if we trade our defense depth in this deal, that's not going to be all that feasible.

 

[AslanRH]

I'm aware of Avs folks frustration with Jost, but I hope Sakic is more patient. I see focused development in his 2way game and physical play. He just needs to get consistent ice time and I think he'll prove to be a valuable middle 6 during this window.

I do like the idea of getting Savard though.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Columbus says no

 

[95snipes]

Jenner would be nice, but Anderson would be the target for me. Anderson + Savard for whatever futures you want (not Byram). How about Newhook and a 1st.

 

[cgf]

Nothing against Jenner, but I wouldn't complain if we could snag Murray or Savard without him being involved.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

It's a fair enough try, but I don't think it fits.

• Jost is a significant downgrade on Jenner at a position we absolutely cannot afford downgrades on. Compher isn't really a good alternative, as we've got a metric ****ton of RWs.
• Ranta is kinda-sorta interesting, but if we're giving up two roster players, I'd want someone we can expect to have in the professional ranks next year. Is he at that level yet?
• All I know about Annunen is that he's a goaltending prospect, but that's more than enough information. We have tons of goaltending prospects, several of very high quality - oh, and Korpisalo is actually playing well now, so we're in no hurry.
• The 1st, while late, is of some interest. Ditto a conditional 2nd. Not sure if it's enough to overcome the rest, though.

Bottom line is, while there's some sort of interesting assets in there, there's nothing about this that stands out to me and says "yes, this is totally worth losing our stand-in #2C and another roster player". We can get away with moving someone like Murray for a package of mostly-futures, but not Jenner - not unless we manage to get a center from some other supplier, and if we trade our defense depth in this deal, that's not going to be all that feasible.

I purposely made it an all futures package because of where the Jackets are as a team and their lack of picks and prospects going forward. If the Jackets are looking for roster talent it was a swing and a miss by me and this definitely doesn’t make sense. I just assumed a rebuild was happening.

I would trade Burakovsky for Savard straight up if that makes any sense for CBJ.

 

[cgf]

It's a fair enough try, but I don't think it fits.

• Jost is a significant downgrade on Jenner at a position we absolutely cannot afford downgrades on. Compher isn't really a good alternative, as we've got a metric ****ton of RWs.
• Ranta is kinda-sorta interesting, but if we're giving up two roster players, I'd want someone we can expect to have in the professional ranks next year. Is he at that level yet?
• All I know about Annunen is that he's a goaltending prospect, but that's more than enough information. We have tons of goaltending prospects, several of very high quality - oh, and Korpisalo is actually playing well now, so we're in no hurry.
• The 1st, while late, is of some interest. Ditto a conditional 2nd. Not sure if it's enough to overcome the rest, though.

Bottom line is, while there's some sort of interesting assets in there, there's nothing about this that stands out to me and says "yes, this is totally worth losing our stand-in #2C and another roster player". We can get away with moving someone like Murray for a package of mostly-futures, but not Jenner - not unless we manage to get a center from some other supplier, and if we trade our defense depth in this deal, that's not going to be all that feasible.

So what do you think Jarmo would be looking for if we were just talking about Murray or Savard? Sans Jenner.

 

[Viqsi]

Jenner would be nice, but Anderson would be the target for me. Anderson + Savard for whatever futures you want (not Byram). How about Newhook and a 1st.

I think I'm just going to start adding "we are not selling low on Josh Anderson" to every post I make in the trade forums now. It seems like it's necessary.

* * *​

Nothing against Jenner, but I wouldn't complain if we could snag Murray or Savard without him being involved.

Very doable. Murray more than Savard, mostly because we're better able to patch up a hole at LD than we are at RD.

* * *​

I purposely made it an all futures package because of where the Jackets are as a team and their lack of picks and prospects going forward. If the Jackets are looking for roster talent it was a swing and a miss by me and this definitely doesn’t make sense. I just assumed a rebuild was happening.

The thing is, we're short on prospects because most of them are actually playing in the NHL at the moment; this is a development-and-experience year that we were hoping could be something more. So while futures are desirable (we're going to need to restock that pool), it's not a desperation push or anything like that.

Or, put differently, we're in a partial rebuild already... but we've already got all the guys we need at every position except C and "elite scoring forward".

I would trade Burakovsky for Savard straight up if that makes any sense for CBJ.

I would be very concerned about "buying high" in that case. Burakovsky's never been anywhere near his present points-per-game level before as a professional, after all, and a 21% shooting rate is not the sort of thing that's going to last. If I thought he could do something that here, I'd be interested, but the guy he's previously been in Washington is not the sort of guy I'd trade Savard straight up for.

* * *​

So what do you think Jarmo would be looking for if we were just talking about Murray or Savard? Sans Jenner.

With regard to Savard, we have a need for a #2C better than Jenner - Jenner's barely holding his own, but he shouldn't be there full-time. I'd been hoping to do a Savard-for-Kadri swap last offseason, but obviously y'all beat us to him. and I'm still a tad bitter.

That's technically also true with Murray, but Murray we can also more readily afford to do a futures package with, since Gavrikov has stepped up and been everything we hoped. Of course, Murray also has his injury history, so we'd be obliged to temper expectations.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

With regard to Savard, we have a need for a #2C better than Jenner - Jenner's barely holding his own, but he shouldn't be there full-time. I'd been hoping to do a Savard-for-Kadri swap last offseason, but obviously y'all beat us to him. and I'm still a tad bitter.

That's technically also true with Murray, but Murray we can also more readily afford to do a futures package with, since Gavrikov has stepped up and been everything we hoped. Of course, Murray also has his injury history, so we'd be obliged to temper expectations.

You dont actually think Savard holds that kind of value do you???

 

[Viqsi]

You dont actually think Savard holds that kind of value do you???

He absolutely does, without question, and if you assume otherwise maybe you should be shopping elsewhere. The guy can single-handedly carry the second pairing, and would at least survive on the top (although you wouldn't want to keep him there full-time unless your #1D was someone really special or they had really good chemistry or something).

 

[bandwagonesque]

He absolutely does, without question, and if you assume otherwise maybe you should be shopping elsewhere. The guy can single-handedly carry the second pairing, and would at least survive on the top (although you wouldn't want to keep him there full-time unless your #1D was someone really special or they had really good chemistry or something).

The notion that Savard could have returned Kadri is obviously untenable. I don't know what else to say.

 

[cgf]

[snip]

Gotcha, sounds like Murray would be the more reasonable target for us then...especially since he'd probably help us more; as someone who can hold the fort next to Makar, better than Graves can. And with that top pairing, we'd have enough possible options of Girard-partners on the second pairing...Zads / EJ / Graves (depending on form & fitness)...to solidify our top 4 until Byram & Timmins arrive.

So what sort of a return do you think it would it take for Jarmo to sell him? Young roster player, picks, prospects? What are we thinking?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He absolutely does, without question, and if you assume otherwise maybe you should be shopping elsewhere. The guy can single-handedly carry the second pairing, and would at least survive on the top (although you wouldn't want to keep him there full-time unless your #1D was someone really special or they had really good chemistry or something).

Ahhh yeah, good luck with that one.

 

[Viqsi]

Gotcha, sounds like Murray would be the more reasonable target for us then...especially since he'd probably help us more; as someone who can hold the fort next to Makar, better than Graves can. And with that top pairing, we'd have enough possible options of Girard-partners on the second pairing...Zads / EJ / Graves (depending on form & fitness)...to solidify our top 4 until Byram & Timmins arrive.

So what sort of a return do you think it would it take for Jarmo to sell him? Young roster player, picks, prospects? What are we thinking?

Picks, primarily - probably conditionalized somewhat based on games played so as to offset the injury risk. Or prospects at LW and C.

* * *​

The notion that Savard could have returned Kadri is obviously untenable. I don't know what else to say.

Ahhh yeah, good luck with that one.

So it's y'all's contention that a #2-3RHD cannot realistically return a high-end #2C of the same age and nearly identical contract status. Okay then, I think I know whose assessments are to be preemptively set aside now.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I could see these two teams doing business if Columbus decide to sell on a few players; Jenner, Anderson, Savard, Murray all come to mind.

Avs have the cap space and young players/picks to get something done, but it would need to be more than just our B guys. Not Byram, but Newhook/Timmins enter the discussions for packages of this quality.

 

[Hasbro]

So Buckeyes what course is Jarmo going to take? Rebuild? Stay the course? Go for broke again?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Picks, primarily - probably conditionalized somewhat based on games played so as to offset the injury risk. Or prospects at LW and C.

* * *​

So it's y'all's contention that a #2-3RHD cannot realistically return a high-end #2C of the same age and nearly identical contract status. Okay then, I think I know whose assessments are to be preemptively set aside now.

Based on the bolded.... Ya, it's clear whose assessments are out of whack, that's for sure.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

If the Avs could get Murray and Anderson for a reasonable price I’d )ump all over it. Think Murray would do well with Makar, and Anderson would fit like a glove alongside MacKinnon and Rantanen

 

[Mrfenn92]

Savard is a good player. Colorado isn't trading Kadri for him. If there's a trade to be made it will be for picks and higher end prospects.

 

[Balthazar]

The kind of package the Avs could offer for Savard at the deadline:

1st rd pick 2020
2nd rd pick 2021
Calle Rosen

That's taking in consideration that Savard has an extra year left under contract.

 

[Viqsi]

I could see these two teams doing business if Columbus decide to sell on a few players; Jenner, Anderson, Savard, Murray all come to mind.

Avs have the cap space and young players/picks to get something done, but it would need to be more than just our B guys. Not Byram, but Newhook/Timmins enter the discussions for packages of this quality.

Newhook, sure. Timmins, not as much, because we don't need blueline prospects. (For that same reason, Byram definitely shouldn't be in any discussion - not that we wouldn't consider him because at some point sheer quality overrides need, but because we wouldn't value him as highly as Colorado would and so that would be a losing proposition for the Avs to trade him here)

* * *​

So Buckeyes what course is Jarmo going to take? Rebuild? Stay the course? Go for broke again?

Probably mostly option #2, since that involves something of a retool-on-the-fly with young guys coming in.

* * *​

If the Avs could get Murray and Anderson for a reasonable price I’d )ump all over it. Think Murray would do well with Makar, and Anderson would fit like a glove alongside MacKinnon and Rantanen

Depends on your definition of "reasonable". Especially w/r/t Anderson, because we're not selling low on the guy.

* * *​

Savard isn't a #2-3 defender. He's 3rd on the team in both even-strength and total ice-time among defensemen this season and 4th each of the previous two seasons.

That's because Werenski and Jones get in the way. That's like claiming that Matthews isn't a #1C because he doesn't get the most minutes of any C on Toronto.

* * *​

Savard is a good player. Colorado isn't trading Kadri for him. If there's a trade to be made it will be for picks and higher end prospects.

Oh, I never expected Colorado would. That's why I was saying it was something I wanted last offseason - I wanted that trade to be done with Toronto, since they could afford the center depth hit the same way we could afford the defense depth hit ("if that other big hole is filled, we'll manage otherwise"). Colorado, OTOH, doesn't have anything like a decent #2C after MacKinnon if you take Kadri out of the picture (that's why he was traded for in the first place, after all); it doesn't make any sense for them to trade Kadri away at all. It's getting relegislated because some posters are inexplicably still believers in the "your guy actually sucks, now trade him to us for a discount" approach to negotiations.

* * *​

The kind of package the Avs could offer for Savard at the deadline:

1st rd pick 2020
2nd rd pick 2021
Calle Rosen

That's taking in consideration that Savard has an extra year left under contract.

Rosen doesn't add value for us; we've got plenty of LDs. That and I don't think we're going to sell Savard for futures in any case. Murray, maybe, but not Savard. (Unless things go really wrong...)

 

[Cousin Eddie]

@Viqsi I'd actually prefer Murray over Savard to pair with Makar. What would the ask be for Murray straight up? Rosen and a 1st?

 

[bandwagonesque]

That's because Werenski and Jones get in the way. That's like claiming that Matthews isn't a #1C because he doesn't get the most minutes of any C on Toronto.

In that case, can you explain why Savard was 4th in ice time for defencemen for the two years prior to this one, and 3rd behind Jack Johnson the year before that, before Seth Jones was even on the team?​

 

[WannabeFinn]

In that case, can you explain why Savard was 4th in ice time for defencemen for the two years prior to this one, and 3rd behind Jack Johnson the year before that, before Seth Jones was even on the team?​

We have been using Jones and Werenski on the powerplay since they joined the team, so Savard has been stuck with a 2nd pair/PK role. And yes, Jack Johnson was absurdly overused here.

It still stands that Savard is a high quality 2nd pairing defenseman that can play in all situations.