GDT: Colorado Avalanche@ Winnipeg Jets 10/26/14 1 PM MDT

[InjuredChoker]

I can't even remember the last takeaway he had. That's a sign that he's not reading the play the same, or being tenacious enough.

ROR had really nice takeaway on wheeler with 1 min left in OT that caused 2on1 the other way. the other guy was landeskog so one could see how it would go..

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I watched the 2nd and 3rd. Landeskog played better this game imo. The same cant be said about O'Reilly.
Duchene's still beasting.

 

[AvsRobin]

I missed the game. Were we as outplayed on even strength as the corsi numbers say?
http://war-on-ice.com/game2.html?seasongcode=2014201520117

 

[InjuredChoker]

I missed the game. Were we as outplayed on even strength as the corsi numbers say?
http://war-on-ice.com/game2.html?seasongcode=2014201520117

yes and no. we never had the puck, lost most of the puck battles, breakouts sucked again but jets didn't have ton of chances. they aren't very deep on F and lack quality PMDs outside of trouba and enström and top 6 is good but not elite. so avs managed to hang on pretty well but better team would've destroyed avs in game like this.

 

[IceRat]

didn't watch the game but had the TSN radio feed going on in the background
I heard nothing but names of Jets players being called out
easy to decipher they controlled the puck and play the whole game

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I don't believe we should no. If O'Reilly wants to earn the money that he is making, he needs to not be so dependent on Duchene to produce

What? So they shouldn't be together because of money???

RoR is not being fully utilized right now. He is at his most dangerous, offensively, when he gets to the front of the net. Right now though, he is never there and if he is then nobody on that line can sneak pucks to him while down low surrounded by defenders. Duchene is great at fitting passes into tight spaces. These guys need to be together. Right now neither is producing as expected for the season. Both are about 2 points away from being on their pace for last year.

O'Reilly had a great chemistry with Landeskog in Landy's Rookie of the Year campaign. Now looks like they have zero chemistry. IDK maybe it's because of MacKinnon. Roy needs to do something. IMHO splitting Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla is not an option, they are really good together. It may hurt the team not help it. Dutchy and Iggy start really clicking after Tangs was added to the line. Mitchell should stay on 3rd line, they are doing good together. I'm not so sure if Talbot is good addition to this line, maybe Roy should back with Briere there. He is much better in offense than Talbot. Looks like MacK is real problem right now because he doesn't fit to any of our lines right now. From the other hand I think he needs just one game to break up slump and start to play like last year.

This season really sucks at the moment, they need to put a streak of good games together really soon because if they don't season could be over faster than we think.

Iggy and Duchene were showing chemistry before that. And Tangs was playing really good on the 3rd line against Florida before being moved up. Tangs just got his legs back or something. And as soon as he did they moved him up.

ES chances were 7-10.

they were even until jets started their push in the third were avs had no answer. EJ going down contributed to that.

Thanks. Figured that would be the case. I didn't think we got dominated nearly as bad as a lot here are making it out to be. I thought it was a pretty even game until the hit on Barrie and the EJ injury. Ugly, hard fought game, but even.

 

[AVSfan2daMAX]

I don't believe we should no. If O'Reilly wants to earn the money that he is making, he needs to not be so dependent on Duchene to produce

My sentiments exactly. ROR is really leaving a bitter taste with me. If you're going to have a (2) contract disputes, you had better come in and earn your keep. Honestly, what's his excuse? He's a sixth year player playing mediocre and people claim because he's not paired up with the team's best player. At this point, O'Reilly should be able to carry a line by himself if he wants to be paid like Duchene.

Compare O'Reilly start to the season to Subban or Johansen...

 

[Freudian]

If you call a timeout in OT with less than a minute to go, draw up a play and right after your team lines up for a faceoff with two guys against three and you lose the faceoff because the puck goes to the oppositions third guy, they move the puck up the ice and eventually score.

I have no idea what Roy was thinking but it blew up in his face.

 

[ABasin]

What? So they shouldn't be together because of money???

I don't think that's it per se. I believe the point being made is that players making $6M per season should be producing well, regardless of whether they are playing next to another $6M player or not.

Risking the typical defensive O'Reilly-love response here, but the fact is that O'Reilly hasn't brought his play up to last year's level so far this season, and some fans are losing patience with that. I find it hard to argue with their point of view. Landeskog and particularly MacKinnon are suffering from the same malady, so at least O'Reilly isn't sitting under that spotlight alone. But he's alight.

Iggy and Duchene were showing chemistry before that. And Tangs was playing really good on the 3rd line against Florida before being moved up. Tangs just got his legs back or something.

Yeah, what happened there? He looked like me out there, then just ate his spinach or something, and turned it around very quickly. He's been playing pretty well over the last several games. Maybe he can share the secret with some of his fellow teammates.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

My sentiments exactly. ROR is really leaving a bitter taste with me. If you're going to have a (2) contract disputes, you had better come in and earn your keep. Honestly, what's his excuse? He's a sixth year player playing mediocre and people claim because he's not paired up with the team's best player. At this point, O'Reilly should be able to carry a line by himself if he wants to be paid like Duchene.

Compare O'Reilly start to the season to Subban or Johansen...

RoR is not a top playmaker. That's not his game . He should not be expected to carry a line that puts up big numbers in the Ozone. He just doesn't have the skating to play that role like Duchene can. He is a top scoring line goal scorer/finisher, a top defender and a secondary playmaker. You wouldn't expect guys like Perry, Ovi, Nash, Staz, Koivu, marleau, Lucic, Couture to carry a line. Not without their production taking a hit. These guys are not getting paid what they are because they can carry a line.

He can carry a line, a defensive line. And if that's what you want then expect a solid defensive line and RoR scoring in the 50s. Until MacK can get his game together and become the dominate playmaker he was last year an RoR led line is not going to put up huge points.

I don't think that's it per se. I believe the point being made is that players making $6M per season should be producing well, regardless of whether they are playing next to another $6M player or not.

Risking the typical defensive O'Reilly-love response here, but the fact is that O'Reilly hasn't brought his play up to last year's level so far this season, and some fans are losing patience with that. I find it hard to argue with their point of view. Landeskog and particularly MacKinnon are suffering from the same malady, so at least O'Reilly isn't sitting under that spotlight alone. But he's alight.



Yeah, what happened there? He looked like me out there, then just ate his spinach or something, and turned it around very quickly. He's been playing pretty well over the last several games. Maybe he can share the secret with some of his fellow teammates.

He will never produce like last year without a dominate playmaker (or a full line playing up to its potential), especially when Lando can't hit the net most of the time. I know you O'Reilly-haters won't admit it, but he has set up more scoring chances than anyone other than Duchene. He gave Everberg some really good looks and has given Lando some good chances recently. A couple of those are converted and he is right on pace for last year. Everberg really should have got that one goal that was called back- that was not a high stick. The main difference for him from last year is that he is not getting nearly as many scoring chances himself. He is one of our best goal scorers but he is not being put in a position to play that role. Instead he is needing to be more of a playmaker right now and that just is not his strength.

 

[ABasin]

He can carry a line, a defensive line. And if that's what you want then expect a solid defensive line and RoR scoring in the 50s.

He's playing next to two of the last three Calder winners and two 60 point players - some pretty damn nice offensive talent next to O'R there. What exactly does he need? A lot of players would look good playing next to Crosby.

Hell, if O'Reilly needs Duchene that badly in order to produce, I'm going to have to rethink my position on the Avs salary "structure" - they should be paying Duchene more.

The main difference for him from last year is that he is not getting nearly as many scoring chances himself. He is one of our best goal scorers but he is not being put in a position to play that role. Instead he is needing to be more of a playmaker right now and that just is not his strength.

I actually think it is one of his strengths - passing and putting the puck in really good places on the ice is one of the very best parts of O'Reilly's game, IMO.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Duchene makes him better, he makes Duchene better. That's why it's called chemistry.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't even care about the salary right now, he's signed and it's done with. I just care about getting the best O'Reilly possible and IMO, that'll happen when he's back with Duchene. "Well, he's making $6M/yr so he should produce with anyone". Yeah, that's probably true but it's currently not happening and he has played the best hockey of his career with Duchene.

 

[dahrougem2]

Duchene makes him better, he makes Duchene better. That's why it's called chemistry.

I don't think it's vital for Duchene playing with O'Reilly to have success as it is for O'Reilly playing with Duchene.

Duchene is the type of player who makes other players around him better, something I never thought I would say after his first 3 seasons since he looked like an individual "do-it-myself" player, but his game has changed a lot and it's for the better. No doubt he and O'Reilly have great chemistry together but so does the Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla line. Why break that up? So that we can hopefully have an O'Reilly-Duchene-Iginla line that has chemistry? What happens if O'Reilly can't mesh with Iginla? We ruin the one line that actually has chemistry just to see if O'Reilly can get his game on track? Absolutely not

Fact is, salary does matter in this cap era. And a player making 6 million per season is not going to be given the benefit of the doubt just because he isn't playing with our best player. As one poster said, he's playing with 2 of the last 3 calder winners, there is talent on the line, more-so than our first line for crying out loud. The problem that I see? They just aren't working hard enough, simple as that. Duchene, Iginla and Tanguay are all working their tails off every shift and it shows, they're actually creating chances. The 2nd line? To me it looks like they coast when they don't have the puck and aren't going to the gritty areas to score goals.

All three of those players are struggling, MacKinnon more than the other two but there is enough talent there where they shouldn't be this bad. And if they still can't figure it out, then tinker with the 2nd and 3rd lines. Do not wreck the one line that has chemistry on this team for the sake of O'Reilly

 

[Bubba Thudd]

If you call a timeout in OT with less than a minute to go, draw up a play and right after your team lines up for a faceoff with two guys against three and you lose the faceoff because the puck goes to the oppositions third guy, they move the puck up the ice and eventually score.

I have no idea what Roy was thinking but it blew up in his face.

I didn't understand why Roy would call a timeout right after Pavelec got his bell rung. It gave him time to collect himself.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I don't think it's vital for Duchene playing with O'Reilly to have success as it is for O'Reilly playing with Duchene.

Duchene is the type of player who makes other players around him better, something I never thought I would say after his first 3 seasons since he looked like an individual "do-it-myself" player, but his game has changed a lot and it's for the better. No doubt he and O'Reilly have great chemistry together but so does the Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla line. Why break that up? So that we can hopefully have an O'Reilly-Duchene-Iginla line that has chemistry? What happens if O'Reilly can't mesh with Iginla? We ruin the one line that actually has chemistry just to see if O'Reilly can get his game on track? Absolutely not

Fact is, salary does matter in this cap era. And a player making 6 million per season is not going to be given the benefit of the doubt just because he isn't playing with our best player. As one poster said, he's playing with 2 of the last 3 calder winners, there is talent on the line, more-so than our first line for crying out loud. The problem that I see? They just aren't working hard enough, simple as that. Duchene, Iginla and Tanguay are all working their tails off every shift and it shows, they're actually creating chances. The 2nd line? To me it looks like they coast when they don't have the puck and aren't going to the gritty areas to score goals.

All three of those players are struggling, MacKinnon more than the other two but there is enough talent there where they shouldn't be this bad. And if they still can't figure it out, then tinker with the 2nd and 3rd lines. Do not wreck the one line that has chemistry on this team for the sake of O'Reilly

Amen.

I was never of the opinion that a line that has chemistry should be broken up because the others arent keeping up.

the fact is that Duchene is making the two, older, less skilled and slower players productive. ROR, Landy and Mack should be greatful that the three of them get to play together rather than having to "carry" other players. Because lets face it, Tanguay and Iginla require more support than the younger guys. Sorry, let me re-phrase. They SHOULD require more support.

 

[InjuredChoker]

in the past 5 games, i have tracked more scoring chances for talbot and mcginn, than i have for ROR.

 

[CobraAcesS]

in the past 5 games, i have tracked more scoring chances for talbot and mcginn, than i have for ROR.

Sad...

 

[dahrougem2]

It's also a testament to how well Mcginn is playing. He's been one of our top 3 forwards so far this season IMO along with Duchene and Iginla. That 2nd line should take note of how hard he works every shift and try to keep up, maybe they'd actually generate more chances

 

[Freudian]

I don't know why people call Avs a fast team. They don't have that many fast players anymore.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Mitchell are fast. Landeskog, EJ, Barrie and Redmond are reasonably fast. But that's it. MacKinnon looks a bit sluggish. I don't think he's created a single breakaway this season.

 

[dahrougem2]

I don't know why people call Avs a fast team. They don't have that many fast players anymore.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Mitchell are fast. Landeskog, EJ, Barrie and Redmond are reasonably fast. But that's it. MacKinnon looks a bit sluggish. I don't think he's created a single breakaway this season.

They are disillusioned by the speed of Duchene and MacKinnon. You don't need to be a fast team to play a fast game, you just need to know how to move the puck well, support well and breakout well. A perfect example is the Bruins. They aren't speed demons but they play a fast game.

The Avs need to find that balance where their fast players don't need to go 110% at all times, but can pace themselves while moving without the puck to areas that will generate smart passes/chances. Any team can look fast without fast players, it's all a matter of strategy. And right now, the Avs' strategy is not working. Jarome Iginla supports the puck very well, and IMO it makes him look faster than he really is, which is a good thing. More Avs need to learn how to do this better

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I don't know why people call Avs a fast team. They don't have that many fast players anymore.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Mitchell are fast. Landeskog, EJ, Barrie and Redmond are reasonably fast. But that's it. MacKinnon looks a bit sluggish. I don't think he's created a single breakaway this season.

McGinn has some good wheels too. But, yeah, you got a point. I'm sure it's the Duchene, MacKinnon effect.

He's playing next to two of the last three Calder winners and two 60 point players - some pretty damn nice offensive talent next to O'R there. What exactly does he need? A lot of players would look good playing next to Crosby.

Hell, if O'Reilly needs Duchene that badly in order to produce, I'm going to have to rethink my position on the Avs salary "structure" - they should be paying Duchene more.



I actually think it is one of his strengths - passing and putting the puck in really good places on the ice is one of the very best parts of O'Reilly's game, IMO.

Those Calder winners have been struggling. He needs them to perform up to their potential so that he isn't carrying the line. Lando has been improving, like O'Reilly has. But MacK, I don't even know what to say really. If all 3 guys were clicking that would be a very good line. They have to work as a unit though and play to each players strengths, which isn't happening right now. MacK really needs to get out of his funk and take control of the puck and start breaking down defenses with his speed.

Duchene should absolutely be getting paid higher. Dude is one of the leagues top 3 to 5 playmakers. But that's a different argument. RoR is not getting 6 mil to carry a line offensively. That's just unrealistic IMO. His overall game is why he is getting that much.

Yes, passing and putting the puck in really good places on the ice (hard to do when nobody is in those good places) is one of his better attributes. But there is more to being a play maker than that to me. Like carrying the puck, which I think is one of his lesser attributes. The puck is on his stick for too long right now. It's the same case with Tanguay. Tremendous passer, but I wouldn't call him a playmaker. They just dont have the skills to dance around the ice with the puck like Duchene does. Duchene and MacK are the only guys on this team with the ability to get 60, 70+ points while playing on a line that is struggling to score.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I wouldn't say what Tanguay has shown with Duchene is so amazing that it has lit up the scoreboard so that it must remain intact. Duchene and O'Reilly have played together for 6 years now and have had career years on the same line together. They are both amazing players and can function without each other. But if you guys think the top 6 is working great right now I'll drop it.

I'm doing a side project of my own, and showing no bias to my opinion I am going to share the results thus far. I'm keeping track of correlation between goals and who has assisted on them, maybe in an effort to quantify this chemistry. Obviously line combos and PP units will skew the results but hopefully by the end of the season some duos will emerge. Right now any combination of goal scorer: assists that has more than one hit are:

Landeskog: 3 O'Reilly
Duchene: 3 Iginla
McGinn: 3 Barrie, 2 Duchene

 

[IceRat]

I don't know why people call Avs a fast team. They don't have that many fast players anymore.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Mitchell are fast. Landeskog, EJ, Barrie and Redmond are reasonably fast. But that's it. MacKinnon looks a bit sluggish. I don't think he's created a single breakaway this season.

Quote:


Originally Posted by AvalancheFan19 View Post

We're fast, let's utilize that. It's been working to our disadvantage lately it seems...

I don't think we are as fast as many want to believe

we have 3 fast players (MacK, Doosh, Barrie) and even their speed comes in spurts and mainly on 1 side of the puck
we have way more dead legs on this team than live ones

the Minny games should have been all you needed to see to prove that

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=91016403&postcount=90

 

[The Kingslayer]

I don't know why people call Avs a fast team. They don't have that many fast players anymore.

Duchene, MacKinnon and Mitchell are fast. Landeskog, EJ, Barrie and Redmond are reasonably fast. But that's it. MacKinnon looks a bit sluggish. I don't think he's created a single breakaway this season.

The only thing Mackinnon has created this season are bad giveaways.