GDT: Colorado Avalanche vs. Winnipeg Jets, October 27th 2013, 8:00PM EST 06:00PM MST

[tigervixxxen]

It's pretty ridiculous someone top 3 in goals can't be at least in the discussion for a top 10 player right now.

 

[cgf]

De la Soul is awesome, one of the few rap artists I actually like.

I thought we had too many offensive turnovers tonight, especially Duchene in that second period. Also Setoguchi totally dived on that first penalty and did not like Bordeleau's "head shot" as well. Defense core again played great tonight and FINALLY, Wilson, finally had a really solid game. Sarich IMO was the worst one and that was due to his foot speed being at the snail level. I also did not like that second goal Varlamov gave up. I understand that every goaler will give that up, but maybe in another game where a team isn't coming off a second of back to back games, that goal would have been a gamebreaker.

Tanguay was a complete beast tonight, that interference on Buff during Hejda's shot was almost Detroit like and that pass to Landeskog to step up that goal was pure beauty. I mean the guy had two players on him and still passed it on the tape of Landeskog, amazing.

Also for the MacKinnon, I said a couple games ago that he really needs to slow his game down and be calm with the puck. IMO he is being too hyper out there and pressing plays that do not need to happen.

I actually like Tribe more of the two because those fools are hilarious, but there's some really good rap/hip hop out there, dunno who's still putting stuff out cause I stopped paying attention to music right around when Mumford and sons and Andrew bird became things, but I still love me my immortal technique, Talib kweli, Mos def, k'naan, dead prez, eminem when I need to scratch that rap itch.

MacK's still a kid, the game is flying past him so fast that he thinks he needs to be at light speed at all times. The more minutes he puts behind him the slower the game around him will get and the more he'll feel comfortable and calm. Once he pots a couple goals I'd like to see Tanguay put on that line in place of Parenteau.

 

[Avs71]

I watched Duchene every shift vs the Jets last night and I came away with "OMFG." People who say "lol no" etc aren't wrong in a sense because they value reputation and proven production very highly. So by that logic he won't be for another 50-100 games by the majority of folks.

This guy from what I saw last night is 2013-14's Giroux. All the promise in the world and his brain has finally caught up to his body. He has the knack for when to go to the net. Not just TO go to the net but WHEN and WHERE. Knows when and where to pass a split second before everyone else besides his linemates do. He is a supremely dangerous player.

I will take a full on friendly avatar bet anyone that if he plays 80-82 games he will be top 5-10 in scoring this year.

Nice post.

I think it boils down to a lot of people haven't really seen him play at this level he is currently at. Add to the fact that he had a bad 3rd season, and people don't recognize the budding superstar yet. If the Avs make the playoffs, you can be sure there will be lots of "Duchene is Amazing" threads. Until he gets that constant national exposure, he'll always be a great player, but won't be considered near the top.

It will also take a while to flush out the hot starters from the legitimate lethal offensive players. If Duchene is still playing at a level like this come February, it will look more impressive due to the fact that guys like Neilsen, Steen, Hudler, Pavelski, etc, won't be playing at a similar pace.

As for any wagers, I already have 6 pack riding on him finishing in top 10 scoring.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Sorry, I don't see the similarities between how the Avs and Oilers are assembled, aside from some high draft choices. From the mentality at the top, to the asset accumulation, to the priority put on high end character and grit, to the acknowledgement of filling holes like EJ/Varly... I don't see it. The Oilers are a mess. Some nice, skilled forwards, and that's it. The only guy with grit, Taylor Hall, has the hockey IQ of a skate guard.

I'll take Duchene/MacKinnon/Landeskog/O'Reilly over RNH/Hall/Eberle/Yakupov.

 

[cgf]

Injuries and goaltending doesn't help.

I think Oilers, as they currently are constructed, are about a .500% team. If Eakins get them to buy in when it comes to competing and battling for pucks, they can do better.

I don't have a problem with them as a team and feel no urge to mock them. There are several players on there I have a soft spot for. RNH is awesome and Hall, while a bit of a hockey Pejorative Slur, is relentless.

Some of their fans here on HF are very entertaining to mock since they have a certain hubris.

Yeah, I still expect them to end up a bubble team, I like Eakins and think eventually he'll get them playing good hockey, but I really don't like Gagner as the 2nd C for them, if they could find an MPS for Perron type trade for Gagner, I think that would be huge to getting them to start playing the way Eakins wants them to play and they'd have the right supporting cast for the kids to carry them the way our kids can carry our team.

Obviously their d and goalies are also still an issue, but the forwards just aren't quite right to overcome that.

 

[cgf]

Sorry, I don't see the similarities between how the Avs and Oilers are assembled, aside from some high draft choices. From the mentality at the top, to the asset accumulation, to the priority put on high end character and grit, to the acknowledgement of filling holes like EJ/Varly... I don't see it. The Oilers are a mess. Some nice, skilled forwards, and that's it. The only guy with grit, Taylor Hall, has the hockey IQ of a skate guard.

I'll take Duchene/MacKinnon/Landeskog/O'Reilly over RNH/Hall/Eberle/Yakupov.

I like their top 9 a lot if they replaced Gagner with a more two way similar forward. Hall is a hockey tard, but he's ferocious, and Yak's physical little dude, RNH is brilliant and Eberle's a high character dude. I like that top 4 quite a bit and the supporting staff's pretty solid, Perron brings a lot that was missing to that top 6 and Gordon is a good defensive third C, and would be great if Gagner weren't their #2. With Smid, Schultz and Petry they have three good defenders with an ancient Terence and a nice under the radar FA in belov to give their mess of a defense some solid pieces. They don't have an EJ who's been huge for us, but again not too dissimilar on paper for the dcore either. Behind the bench we both have good rookie coaches, although patrick has a midus touch that eakins just doesn't. Dubnyk is a big difference though.

On paper the differences aren't as big as what we're seeing on the ice

 

[Flair Hay]

Nice post.

I think it boils down to a lot of people haven't really seen him play at this level he is currently at. Add to the fact that he had a bad 3rd season, and people don't recognize the budding superstar yet. If the Avs make the playoffs, you can be sure there will be lots of "Duchene is Amazing" threads. Until he gets that constant national exposure, he'll always be a great player, but won't be considered near the top.

It will also take a while to flush out the hot starters from the legitimate lethal offensive players. If Duchene is still playing at a level like this come February, it will look more impressive due to the fact that guys like Neilsen, Steen, Hudler, Pavelski, etc, won't be playing at a similar pace.

As for any wagers, I already have 6 pack riding on him finishing in top 10 scoring.

As long as (because I'm still a young chap) you have to good sense to shotgun minimum one of those beers.

 

[bromando]

I honestly think Landeskog is playing some of the best hockey of his young career now, better than his golden rookie campaign. Seems like he shook that weird funk he got in where he didn't want to shoot or hit and wasn't really sure where to be on the ice. Honestly when he gets the puck now it's like he just wants to bully right through the defenders and put it in the net every shift (when he's not making the smart, safe play). Fun to watch.

Landeskog has upped his game a lot in the last 3-4 games. A lot of people have written off the idea that he has elite potential but when he plays like he did last night, you can see why he was the #2 pick. He's been superb along the boards, his passes are connecting much better, and those runs he's taken in the middle of the ice through 2 defenders have been crazy good. Not to mention his defense. Think he could have a really good year with his line.

 

[henchman21]

Landeskog has upped his game a lot in the last 3-4 games. A lot of people have written off the idea that he has elite potential but when he plays like he did last night, you can see why he was the #2 pick. He's been superb along the boards, his passes are connecting much better, and those runs he's taken in the middle of the ice through 2 defenders have been crazy good. Not to mention his defense. Think he could have a really good year with his line.

I think he has elite 2 way potential. Too many people associate elite potential with pure offensive numbers... Landy will never have those, but I think he can be a 30-35g-35-40a player with elite defense and leadership. Those players are not common at all.

 

[Freudian]

[NHL]2013020169-528-h[/NHL]

I loved this goal. Both Stastny and Landeskog owned the Jets through competing and being so strong on the puck.

 

[Boulder Avalanche]

The Oilers core is interesting
but I would much rather have ours. Only thing the Oilers have over us is defense and that is close.

 

[Foppa]

Duchene won't get a ton of fan respect around here (for the talent he is) until the end of the year...there's definitely a delay between a guy becoming something on the ice and being recognized for it by fans of other teams. For right now we are all just Avs homers who are pumping up our player...

People who haven't watched him in 2013 won't be able to see past the scoring stats, which although they point to an excellent young player - will not be able to quantify just how dominate of an all-around force he is now. He takes over games and his physical strength is vastly underestimated.

We definitely have a more balanced core moving forward than the Oilers and that is what is most appealing about the team. It's a Bruins-esque setup with lots of speed, physicality and depth. We obviously don't have a Chara but on the flip, I think Duchene could, will, and is developing into more of a game-dominating offensive talent than anything the B's have had.

- You have one of the most athletically gifted goalies around and now he is surrounded by an entire support group (Giguere, Allaire, Roy) which maximizes his potential for success.

- The forward group is loaded with gritty leaders who play physical and do not look out of place on scoring lines. Sure, a guy like Downie or McGinn will go through droughts or miss chances from time-to-time but those two combined with Landeskog and O'Reilly provide the perfect balance to playmakers like PAP and Tanguay.

- Roles are well-defined but there is very little ego and ample chances for all three scoring lines to 'steal the show' from game-to-game. It's going to be hard to catch this team on a night where at least one of the 'scoring lines' doesn't step up.

- The defense may be no-name after EJ but they've cut down on mistakes and again, there seems to be a plan and purpose with Roy in charge now. No doubt helped also by an impressive group of defensively capable forwards (Stastny, O'Reilly, Duchene, Landeskog, etc).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the forward group going forward with lots of contractual question marks after this season. Ideal world, we keep everybody. It's a great blend of quality. Possible while at the same time perhaps making a defensive improvement or two? Unlikely me thinks.

In terms of pure value and individual talent, I think the Oilers core is obviously highly impressive but they are going to have move some pieces around to get the right blend of talent.

 

[henchman21]

The Oilers just have an incredibly unbalanced core at this point, and don't have a goalie that even looks like he has the ability to be a part of the core. All they really need is a good 2 way #2C, shutdown top-pairing D, and a good starting goalie. They have all the pieces to get what they need (prospects and roster players), but their management is too obsessed with their 'core' players like Gagner and Eberle. They don't want to let go of their prized possessions to actually build a team.

 

[Avs_19]

I like their top 9 a lot if they replaced Gagner with a more two way similar forward. Hall is a hockey tard, but he's ferocious, and Yak's physical little dude, RNH is brilliant and Eberle's a high character dude. I like that top 4 quite a bit and the supporting staff's pretty solid, Perron brings a lot that was missing to that top 6 and Gordon is a good defensive third C, and would be great if Gagner weren't their #2. With Smid, Schultz and Petry they have three good defenders with an ancient Terence and a nice under the radar FA in belov to give their mess of a defense some solid pieces. They don't have an EJ who's been huge for us, but again not too dissimilar on paper for the dcore either. Behind the bench we both have good rookie coaches, although patrick has a midus touch that eakins just doesn't. Dubnyk is a big difference though.

On paper the differences aren't as big as what we're seeing on the ice

Out of those four, RNH is the only one who tries to play defense. The other three don't give a crap about the defensive zone. Or maybe they're just really bad defensively. Then they go and acquire another soft forward who only cares about offense (Perron). I don't see how he was a piece that was missing. They have enough Perrons, they needed a Downie/McGinn.

If we're only looking at young players, then our equivalent top four would be Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, and MacKinnon. Other than the fact that three of them are natural centers and not just a bunch of wingers, a big difference is O'Reilly and Landeskog's defensive ability and their compete level in all three zones. None of the Oilers young players come close to them in that area. They're all around the same age so it's not an age or experience thing either, they just don't have it. They can match Duchene and MacKinnon's offense but other than maybe RNH, none of them can provide what O'Reilly and Landeskog do. Even with RNH, he could become a defensive wizard like Datsyuk because he's so smart but he'll never bring the physical element like O'Reilly/Landeskog.

Then if we look at the supporting cast for those four players, Oilers have Gagner, Perron, Hemsky, Smyth, and Gordon. Avs have Stastny, Downie, Parenteau, McGinn, and Tanguay. I don't think we even need to get into this because there's no comparison to be made. Do the Oilers have a single player like Landeskog, Downie, or McGinn in their top nine?

I see very little similarities on paper and that translates to the ice. I think Elliotte Friedman said Eakins really wanted the Avs job before Roy was hired, there's a reason for that. Eakins can probably be a very good coach in the NHL but he needs the players to buy into his system. Then again, he benched Yakupov with one of reasons being his compete level on defense and then he went and played him head to head with Ovechkin the very next game. No surprise that ended very badly for the Oilers.

 

[Unaffiliated]

Giggly gets the start vs. Dallas according to dater. Didn't know whee to post this

 

[TheStranger]

Giggly gets the start vs. Dallas according to dater. Didn't know whee to post this

Was announced after the Pittsburgh game anyway . Hopefully he's not getting every away game.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Giggly gets the start vs. Dallas according to dater. Didn't know whee to post this

Dater discovered the Roy interview from Thursday and decided he found a "scoop"

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I honestly think Landeskog is playing some of the best hockey of his young career now, better than his golden rookie campaign. Seems like he shook that weird funk he got in where he didn't want to shoot or hit and wasn't really sure where to be on the ice. Honestly when he gets the puck now it's like he just wants to bully right through the defenders and put it in the net every shift (when he's not making the smart, safe play). Fun to watch.

I know It sounds a cliche, but I think this goes back to Sacco again. Now Landeskog has clear idea what he needs to do. When he is playing with Tangs and Stastny, he has to be the one making physical plays and shooting, because Stastny and Tanguay are not known for their physicality and shooting, Landeskog is. He has clear mission now on his line, last year he was just doing whatever. Sacco couldn't coach last year's team up to their strengths and that makes huge difference.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Was announced after the Pittsburgh game anyway . Hopefully he's not getting every away game.

As long as we keep winning like this I don't care who plays Home/Visitor games. It looks like Giguere can handle those games better, so why not keep him play those?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I'm only 24, but I have no desire to even press play on that, and I still thoroughly enjoy some good rap and hip hop, and some wonderfully awful rap/hip hop, like Juicy J. Juicy J is so wonderfully terribad doh.

I'm 23 and don't know a single name any of you guys mentioned.

 

[bohlmeister]

Landeskog has been insane defensively this season. Anyone else notice this? He is like a 3rd defenseman on the back check, and half the time he is skating it out of our zone. He is such a smart player, I can't imagine how good he will be when he is 25.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Landeskog has been insane defensively this season. Anyone else notice this? He is like a 3rd defenseman on the back check, and half the time he is skating it out of our zone. He is such a smart player, I can't imagine how good he will be when he is 25.

Well his whole line has been amazing defensively. Tangs has been amazing. Damn, we have solid team up front..

 

[TheStranger]

As long as we keep winning like this I don't care who plays Home/Visitor games. It looks like Giguere can handle those games better, so why not keep him play those?

Mostly I feel at some point you need to have faith that Varlamov can win a road game. How long can you protect him from them before it's too late for him to ever have confidence to win them?

 

[Muffin]

Mostly I feel at some point you need to have faith that Varlamov can win a road game. How long can you protect him from them before it's too late for him to ever have confidence to win them?

You're over thinking it, the next two games are b2b there's nothing strange about Giguere starting one of them.

 

[Unaffiliated]

Was announced after the Pittsburgh game anyway . Hopefully he's not getting every away game.

Dater discovered the Roy interview from Thursday and decided he found a "scoop"

i guess im as bad as him