GDT: Colorado Avalanche vs Saint Louis Blues Saturday 11/11/23 @7:00PM Mountain Time

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I think people are missing the plot with JTC. It isn’t that he isn’t a good hockey player, it is that he simply wasn’t good enough to play the role needed on a contender. The Avs made a risky bet on RyJo because his ceiling is much higher. He’s played at a 1C level before… the risk just isn’t panning out as of yet (and odds are it won’t).

In other words, people shouldn’t be moaning about losing JTC. They should be moaning at simply not fixing the 2C issue.

Replacing JTC isn't the problem. Replacing him with a worse player is.

Cmac gambled on Ryjo Wood and Colton all showing much more than they have recently. All three of those bets look like duds.

Drouin and Tatar were low cost low term deals and no one was expecting anything.

But your 2C 3C and 3W all looking out of place and have term on their deals.

 

[wayninja]

This is going to be one epic ass kicking

Fire Bednar, dude can't even win 300 games

Lotta people going to feel really sill abandoning this game. 3rd period is going to be a ridiculous clinic of domination.

Nailed it.

 

[LOFIN]

Replacing JTC isn't the problem. Replacing him with a worse player is.

Cmac gambled on Ryjo Wood and Colton all showing much more than they have recently. All three of those bets look like duds.

Drouin and Tatar were low cost low term deals and no one was expecting anything.

But your 2C 3C and 3W all looking out of place and have term on their deals.

1 more year of RyJo, I wouldn't call that term. Besides, there are no clauses so it should not be that difficult to ship out should we want to do that.

My guess is we'll give him plenty more time. Maybe an offseason move, if things really don't improve.

 

[Golden Foppa]

Believe it or not, Avs are still the cup favorites in some sportsbooks

That will change soon. Books aren't going to let people get bigger payouts on better teams like Vegas for too much longer.

 

[The Merchant]

Cup favorites

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

1 more year of RyJo, I wouldn't call that term. Besides, there are no clauses so it should not be that difficult to ship out should we want to do that.

My guess is we'll give him plenty more time. Maybe an offseason move, if things really don't improve.

With a pick attached someone would take Ryjo. But it's still another second rounder out the door.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Cup favorites

If they only play the Avs from here on out they could have 15ish 20 goal scorers again!

What a shitshow of a game btw. Good thing i quit quitting smoking ... again!

 

[henchman21]

Replacing JTC isn't the problem. Replacing him with a worse player is.

Cmac gambled on Ryjo Wood and Colton all showing much more than they have recently. All three of those bets look like duds.

Drouin and Tatar were low cost low term deals and no one was expecting anything.

But your 2C 3C and 3W all looking out of place and have term on their deals.

I get what you’re saying with the worse player… but the Avs were pretty much forced into going risk/reward with the cap. They picked up guys who they projected into roles or once played those roles (or higher) who could bounce back. It just isn’t panning out. Many times gambles simply don’t pan out, but with the situation the Avs are in, they have to take gambles.

Drouin and Tatar both had expectations here. People we stating 50-60 points for Drouin.

 

[AvsWraith]

I think this has just become a job to these guys, especially the core. The drive and hunger they showed in that cup year is gone. They quit last night, and that can't happen if you are trying to get back to the top.

We are paying MacK, Makar, and Rants an obscene amount of money. And they have 'A's on their chest for a reason. To allow the group to just up and quit, and to quit themselves, is completely unexcceptable. Yell at each other if you have to, but find a way to hold each other accountable.

 

[henchman21]

I think this has just become a job to these guys, especially the core. The drive and hunger they showed in that cup year is gone. They quit last night, and that can't happen if you are trying to get back to the top.

We are paying MacK, Makar, and Rants an obscene amount of money. And they have 'A's on their chest for a reason. To allow the group to just up and quit, and to quit themselves, is completely unexcceptable. Yell at each other if you have to, but find a way to hold each other accountable.

Factually, the whole team has A's on their chest.

 

[chet1926]

I get what you’re saying with the worse player… but the Avs were pretty much forced into going risk/reward with the cap. They picked up guys who they projected into roles or once played those roles (or higher) who could bounce back. It just isn’t panning out. Many times gambles simply don’t pan out, but with the situation the Avs are in, they have to take gambles.

Drouin and Tatar both had expectations here. People we stating 50-60 points for Drouin.

While I get they have to gamble, the Drouin results were completely expected, the guy sucks and hasn't done shit in years. CMac should never have listened to 29 and used this f***ing brain instead. There were other options but they went with guy that basically proved he wasn't NHL capable the last 2 years.

Tatar is more disappointing to me, he was reasonable the last few years in NJ, and he is utter dog shit this year.

What's even more infuriating is the amount of reasonable guys they've watched walk in favor of Girard. Kadri, Compher etc. all casualties of picking Girard and this 5M. Girard and his whole 1pt and -8. He f***ing sucks and is killing the team money wise. I could get a league minimum dman and get those numbers.

How much better is the roster with even JTC right now. JTC moves to 3C, Colton moves up instead of Drouin.

 

[henchman21]

While I get they have to gamble, the Drouin results were completely expected, the guy sucks and hasn't done shit in years. CMac should never have listened to 29 and used this f***ing brain instead. There were other options but they went with guy that basically proved he wasn't NHL capable the last 2 years.

Tatar is more disappointing to me, he was reasonable the last few years in NJ, and he is utter dog shit this year.

What's even more infuriating is the amount of reasonable guys they've watched walk in favor of Girard. Kadri, Compher etc. all casualties of picking Girard and this 5M. Girard and his whole 1pt and -8. He f***ing sucks and is killing the team money wise. I could get a league minimum dman and get those numbers.

How much better is the roster with even JTC right now. JTC moves to 3C, Colton moves up instead of Drouin.

I really don't think so here, but not worth the semantic debate of 104 point team vs 106 point team.

What the Avs need to really do is figure out their center rotation. They haven't put a high priority on it since the Duchene, Stastny, and ROR days. Almost like they are pissed it didn't work having a bunch of good centers.

 

[chet1926]

I really don't think so here, but not worth the semantic debate of 104 point team vs 106 point team.

What the Avs need to really do is figure out their center rotation. They haven't put a high priority on it since the Duchene, Stastny, and ROR days. Almost like they are pissed it didn't work having a bunch of good centers.

I guess the question is more are you ok with paying Girard 5M for 1pt and -8 hockey? Or do you think that this 5M could be better allocated?

IMO 5M is significant and you've got be getting production for that money. And G is not producing, end of discussion. We've sacrificed many reasonable players to keep him on the roster, it was a big swing and miss. He keeps getting worse every year somehow.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

While I get they have to gamble, the Drouin results were completely expected, the guy sucks and hasn't done shit in years. CMac should never have listened to 29 and used this f***ing brain instead. There were other options but they went with guy that basically proved he wasn't NHL capable the last 2 years.

Tatar is more disappointing to me, he was reasonable the last few years in NJ, and he is utter dog shit this year.

What's even more infuriating is the amount of reasonable guys they've watched walk in favor of Girard. Kadri, Compher etc. all casualties of picking Girard and this 5M. Girard and his whole 1pt and -8. He f***ing sucks and is killing the team money wise. I could get a league minimum dman and get those numbers.

How much better is the roster with even JTC right now. JTC moves to 3C, Colton moves up instead of Drouin.

He has literally been our best Dman this year. The points are an issue but his 5 on 5 numbers are clearly the best. Or at least they were before last night.


It's pretty much impossible for him to be productive when he spends his 5 on 5 I've time with the 2nd and 3rd lines the most who have a combined ~5 goals this year.

 

[henchman21]

I guess the question is more are you ok with paying Girard 5M for 1pt and -8 hockey? Or do you think that this 5M could be better allocated?

IMO 5M is significant and you've got be getting production for that money. And G is not producing, end of discussion. We've sacrificed many reasonable players to keep him on the roster, it was a big swing and miss. He keeps getting worse every year somehow.

Certainly could be better allocated. Manson is more egregious than G though. Too much money is spent on D and not enough at C.

 

[chet1926]

He has literally been our best Dman this year. The points are an issue but his 5 on 5 numbers are clearly the best. Or at least they were before last night.


It's pretty much impossible for him to be productive when he spends his 5 on 5 I've time with the 2nd and 3rd lines the most who have a combined ~5 goals this year.

It's impossible to be productive when you a dman who can't get a shot through from the point. G sucks as a 5M player not sure why people can't get this through their heads. He is worth 3M at best.

 

[sethro109]

It's impossible to be productive when you a dman who can't get a shot through from the point. G sucks as a 5M player not sure why people can't get this through their heads. He is worth 3M at best.

G only plays wing on PP2. If he wasn't on the PK then I'd agree he's not worth his money, but he does and has been pretty good at it too. He's paid second pair money and is playing like a 2nd pairing guy. He's worth his contract. It's unfortunate he was never able to take that next step offensively, but he's not anywhere near our biggest problem right now.

 

[MacKaRant]

The thing with Toews is he's the 4th Av to sign a retirement contract in the last few seasons and all of them started on the wrong foot.

Landy got injured after half a season, Mack is currently on year 1 and sucks, Nuke had a terrible year 1 and year 2 is still up in the air.

Toews signs 7 years and plays like shit. His contract only starts next season.

At one point management and fans must feel robbed.

Or, you know, management chooses not to sign folks that are about to fall off the aging curve to super-long contracts. I mean, I get why we did it, because otherwise they walk and there's no way to replace them or because without the extra years the cap number is too high, but this was always a likely outcome.

 

[MacKaRant]

I’d bet we are going to see some radically different lines Monday and the blender will be on turbo.

Imagine if Rantanen pops up at 2C.

 

[Balthazar]

Imagine if Rantanen pops up at 2C.

 

[ABasin]

It's impossible to be productive when you a dman who can't get a shot through from the point. G sucks as a 5M player not sure why people can't get this through their heads. He is worth 3M at best.

Has Girard really been any worse defensively than #8 or #7?

Girard isn't the problem. He hasn't been great, but he's not sinking the ship.

 

[chet1926]

Has Girard really been any worse defensively than #8 or #7?

Girard isn't the problem. He hasn't been great, but he's not sinking the ship.

Defensively no, but he can't be an offensive black hole making 5M a year.

He simply isn't good enough defensively to produce absolutely nothing offensively.

His play isn't sinking the ship his money is. Not enough good to outweigh the bad.

 

[ABasin]

Defensively no, but he can't be an offensive black hole making 5M a year.

He simply isn't good enough defensively to produce absolutely nothing offensively.

His play isn't sinking the ship his money is. Not enough good to outweigh the bad.

IMO, Girard is playing closer to his salary than MacKinnon or Makar or Nichushkin are. That's a brutal statement, but I believe it's true, especially over the past 7 games.

Points are nice, but Makar is playing brutal defensive hockey. Looks like Paul Coffey some nights.

 

[dahrougem2]

IMO, Girard is playing closer to his salary than MacKinnon or Makar or Nichushkin are. That's a brutal statement, but I believe it's true, especially over the past 7 games.

Points are nice, but Makar is playing brutal defensive hockey. Looks like Paul Coffey some nights.

I would agree with this to start the season.

The Avs already are a bad team outside of top guys. When top guys are now playing poorly, you get 7-0 and 8-2 losses.

This team is in major, major trouble.

 

[chet1926]

IMO, Girard is playing closer to his salary than MacKinnon or Makar or Nichushkin are. That's a brutal statement, but I believe it's true, especially over the past 7 games.

Points are nice, but Makar is playing brutal defensive hockey. Looks like Paul Coffey some nights.

I'm not going to disagree I think all 3 of the big 3 have played like shit. They are absolutely a part of the problem. To many quiet nights.

However they do lead us by a large margin in every offensive category, so at least they are noticable. All 3 are over point per game.

Nuke can play better.

Everyone else pretty much is underperforming and it sucks. The depth is non existent.