Proposal: Colorado - Anaheim

[Cousin Eddie]

To Denver
- Gibson (1M retained)
- Rakell
- Manson

To Anaheim
- Byram
- 2021 1st
- Grubauer’s rights
- EJ’s salary (he lives in Newport and can LTIretire)
- Martin Kaut
- Drew Helleson/Justin Barron
- Compher/Donskoi

Click to read more...

 

[TGWL]

Grubauer isn't an issue. So it seems like a lot to give up for 2 UFA's and Gibson when they could just keep Grubauer.

 

[Mersss]

Grubauer isn't an issue. So it seems like a lot to give up for 2 UFA's and Gibson when they could just keep Grubauer.

It's Grubauer only chance at a big payday tho. He's already 29, don't see him taking a huge discount considering the season he got, and his age.

I think he'll be asking for an 8year 7/8M per kind of deal. Witu Landy at around 8/9 too, can the Avs sign everyone?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Grubauer isn't an issue. So it seems like a lot to give up for 2 UFA's and Gibson when they could just keep Grubauer.

Grubauer is great but I think Gibson is still a tier up. The 1M retained is big too.

 

[RationalExpectations]

It's Grubauer only chance at a big payday tho. He's already 29, don't see him taking a huge discount considering the season he got, and his age.

I think he'll be asking for an 8year 7/8M per kind of deal. Witu Landy at around 8/9 too, can the Avs sign everyone?

8x7/8 ? Seems expensive, I'd rather see the Binnington deal for him, i.e. 6x6

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I guess I feel like we’d get more selling single pieces…. Problem with this is there is too many moving pieces.

I think simplifying it and focus on gibson or Manson + Rakell with retention

I can’t see us retaining 1 mil on gibson for remainder of his contract

 

[Rec T]

It's Grubauer only chance at a big payday tho. He's already 29, don't see him taking a huge discount considering the season he got, and his age.

So you want Anaheim to fund his payday/presumably long contract when they have an arguably better goalie signed long term at a lesser salary ... and have another very good goalie a couple of years away from being NHL ready? 'If' Anaheim was to trade Gibson (not likely & certainly not with retention), I can only see a returning goalie being a minor piece of the deal (& only if they're under contract for no more than say 3-4 years) as a serviceable 1a/1b combo with Stolarz until Dostal is ready to make the show.

As to the rest, I'd like to see OP's breakdown as to which pieces fit together valuation wise. As G2N said, too many pieces involved. It almost feels like a game of three card monty with so much going on/quickly moving cards hoping that the distraction will make you not notice a big problem with the whole picture.

 

[cwede]

i get that there is a realistic argument that 3 individual deals for similar guys would cost similar
but that's a huge package from Avs, which i don't believe Sakic would do
Byram, a 1st, Kaut and ~Barron is a huge bundle of youth
the EJ Cap Relief is a plus, but the benefits of LTIR becomes more clear every season
and both vet skaters from Ducks are UFA in a year

 

[Mersss]

8x7/8 ? Seems expensive, I'd rather see the Binnington deal for him, i.e. 6x6

Grubauer is not taking a deap that brings him to 35yo. He'll take a deal that brings him to 37/38 then another one cheaper as he gets older.

Bring him to 35, his value starts dropping = he loses money, not a smart move at all

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That's a lot to give up when the only appealing piece coming to Colorado is Gibson.

 

[Gliff]

Doesn’t feel like great value for the Ducks considering they are taking on EJ and retaining for 6 years on top of the players they are giving up.

 

[Gliff]

That's a lot to give up when the only appealing piece coming to Colorado is Gibson.

Rakell and Manson have no appeal to you?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That's a lot to give up when the only appealing piece coming to Colorado is Gibson.

You’ve been drooling over Rakell for years.

 

[terranraida]

Ducks org: We're not trading Gibson
Gibson: I don't wanna leave Anaheim
HFBoard posters: Give us Gibson for just a confusing amount of things that don't really help you guys out.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Ducks org: We're not trading Gibson
Gibson: I don't wanna leave Anaheim
HFBoard posters: Give us Gibson for just a confusing amount of things that don't really help you guys out.

That’s an opinion. But yeah, sure, Bo Byram won’t help.

 

[dracom]

That’s an opinion. But yeah, sure, Bo Byram won’t help.

the first two points aren't opinion. those are stated facts from both parties. and it's conveniently the facts that keep getting ignored on here.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

the first two points aren't opinion. those are stated facts from both parties. and it's conveniently the facts that keep getting ignored on here.

You see what I’m commenting on and it clearly wasn’t that. Byram was 4th overall two years ago. Barron was a 1st rounder last year who has risen his stock. There’s a 2021 first rounder included. Kaut was even a first rounder although would probably fall quite a bit in a re-draft. That’s 3 (4if you count Kaut) first round value pieces, one of which is top 5 and that poster had the nerve to consider the return a confusing mix of things that doesn’t help them out.

 

[dracom]

You see what I’m commenting on and it clearly wasn’t that. Byram was 4th overall two years ago. Barron was a 1st rounder last year who has risen his stock. There’s a 2021 first rounder included. That’s 3 first round value pieces, one of which is top 5 and that poster had the nerve to consider the return a confusing mix of things that doesn’t help them out.

Byram is really the only piece that's useful. the rest of that deal is a bunch of b level prospects that haven't shown anything in the NHL (we already have similar prospects). plus taking back salary just to expect us to LTIR it, and to take back another bottom 6 player for whatever reason. like none of that actually helps or fits in what our GM has been asking for. Which is young NHL READY players, not guys who won't be ready for another 2-3 years.

would love it if Avs fans would stop trying to get all three of our players for a quantity > quality deal.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Byram is really the only piece that's useful. the rest of that deal is a bunch of b level prospects that haven't shown anything in the NHL (we already have similar prospects). plus taking back salary just to expect us to LTIR it, and to take back another bottom 6 player for whatever reason. like none of that actually helps or fits in what our GM has been asking for. Which is young NHL READY players, not guys who won't be ready for another 2-3 years.

would love it if Avs fans would stop trying to get all three of our players for a quantity > quality deal.

Colorado don’t trade Byram for a single one of those pieces straight up. Give me a break calling it quantity.

Also the bottom 6 player “for whatever reason” is a cap reason. Anaheim is bad and has no plans to contend next year. JT Compher wasn’t put in this proposal ROR ry to wow you. He was put in there because he would have to be in order to make it work financially. Bad teams who make futures deals most often take back salary. This isn’t new.

Futures trades happen all the time. Futures trades with players of Byram’s pedigree dont. I added two rentals who are impact players from Anaheim all as a way to actually make trading Byram worth while. Don’t act like the 2nd worst team in the NHL would only make a trade for NHL ready players and no prospects. If Anaheim of all teams wouldn’t do a futures trade nobody would.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It’s too risky for my liking to give up that package for a deal with Gibson as the centre piece.

He’s playing behind a crap Ducks team, but only has a .904 SV% and .903 SV% the last two years. He’s better than that obviously, but I couldn’t part with all that with him being the only piece beyond a year.

If I’m trading Byram it’s for a centre, or a proven RHD like Jones.

 

[lwvs84]

If Ducks are actually the front runner for Eichel and land him, this is definitely out the window as the Ducks are trying to make playoffs to appease him.

If that doesn't happen, then trading guys away (more Rakell and Manson, not Gibson) is likely. It ends up being:
Gibson (at $5.4 mil/year)
6 years of retaining $1 mil
Rakell
Manson

For:
Byram (definitely a high end piece, Ducks would love to have)
27th overall pick (decent value, not great especially in this year's draft)
Grubauer's rights (little to no value to the Ducks if they are rebuilding, downgrade in goal and likely more money, especially with the retention)
EJ's salary (negative value)
Kaut (don't know much about how he projects, 21 year old winger isn't bad though)
Helleson/Barron (would definitely be of interest if they can eventually fill the 2nd pair RHD behind Dry)
Compher and (especially) Donskoi don't hold much value to the Ducks either (age)

So 3 of the pieces coming back have no value to Anaheim or negative value. Byram has huge value, I'd say Helleson/Barron are the next most valuable, and 27th/Kaut having some value (not sure how Ducks scouts would view either). I feel like the Ducks would ask for Byram at minimum for Gibson with $1 mil retained. I think, if the Ducks make a deal for Rakell and Manson, they should wait until after the expansion draft, let teams negotiate a new deal with them, and trade them for more than as a 1 year rental.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Ducks are actually the front runner for Eichel and land him, this is definitely out the window as the Ducks are trying to make playoffs to appease him.

If that doesn't happen, then trading guys away (more Rakell and Manson, not Gibson) is likely. It ends up being:
Gibson (at $5.4 mil/year)
6 years of retaining $1 mil
Rakell
Manson

For:
Byram (definitely a high end piece, Ducks would love to have)
27th overall pick (decent value, not great especially in this year's draft)
Grubauer's rights (little to no value to the Ducks if they are rebuilding, downgrade in goal and likely more money, especially with the retention)
EJ's salary (negative value)
Kaut (don't know much about how he projects, 21 year old winger isn't bad though)
Helleson/Barron (would definitely be of interest if they can eventually fill the 2nd pair RHD behind Dry)
Compher and (especially) Donskoi don't hold much value to the Ducks either (age)

So 3 of the pieces coming back have no value to Anaheim or negative value. Byram has huge value, I'd say Helleson/Barron are the next most valuable, and 27th/Kaut having some value (not sure how Ducks scouts would view either). I feel like the Ducks would ask for Byram at minimum for Gibson with $1 mil retained. I think, if the Ducks make a deal for Rakell and Manson, they should wait until after the expansion draft, let teams negotiate a new deal with them, and trade them for more than as a 1 year rental.

The last prospect even close to Byram’s value which was traded was Brannstrom (he wasn’t that close to Byram but still the closest) who was the main piece of a trade for an extended Mark Stone. Yet you think it’s fair to suggest not only Byram for two pending UFA’s but major pieces added to Byram on top of it?

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Rakell and Manson have no appeal to you?

He probably means the term remaining on their deals wise. They have a lot of coming UFA’s to deal with and the Makar and McKinnon extensions. Makes sense to me anyways. Adding to more guys to that mix while moving their young top D prospect and picks at the same time doesn’t make sense

 

[dracom]

Colorado don’t trade Byram for a single one of those pieces straight up. Give me a break calling it quantity.

Also the bottom 6 player “for whatever reason” is a cap reason. Anaheim is bad and has no plans to contend next year. JT Compher wasn’t put in this proposal ROR ry to wow you. He was put in there because he would have to be in order to make it work financially. Bad teams who make futures deals most often take back salary. This isn’t new.

Futures trades happen all the time. Futures trades with players of Byram’s pedigree dont. I added two rentals who are impact players from Anaheim all as a way to actually make trading Byram worth while. Don’t act like the 2nd worst team in the NHL would only make a trade for NHL ready players and no prospects. If Anaheim of all teams wouldn’t do a futures trade nobody would.

Ducks aren't interested in trading Gibson yet everyone is ignoring that, so Byram being in the deal evens that out. There's one quality piece in this deal for us, the rest of just average or negative value stuff coming back.

Oh so they are just cap dumps, cool so that's even more negative value coming our way. Newsflash, we're not here to help you guys out. There needs to be incentive for us, in this deal there's not enough incentive for us to give up our 3 most valuable assets.

Our GM has been pretty open about wanting "hockey trades" over future based deals. Just accept that we don't like your deal and move on.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Ducks aren't interested in trading Gibson yet everyone is ignoring that, so Byram being in the deal evens that out. There's one quality piece in this deal for us, the rest of just average or negative value stuff coming back.

Oh so they are just cap dumps, cool so that's even more negative value coming our way. Newsflash, we're not here to help you guys out. There needs to be incentive for us, in this deal there's not enough incentive for us to give up our 3 most valuable assets.

Our GM has been pretty open about wanting "hockey trades" over future based deals. Just accept that we don't like your deal and move on.

Ok, cancel out Byram and Gibson (remove EJ too since he’s only there to balance Gibson’s income). Are you sincerely going to debate that Barron + Kaut + 1st + Compher is a bad offer for Rakell and Manson?