Proposal: COL/ARI - Large Trade

[John Mandalorian]

Depends on if the Avs think he can be a 2C, which is very obviously their biggest need.

Our pro scouts are good but they whiffed huge on the bad fit with RyJo as 2C. He’s too slow.

So suddenly their judgement is called into question.

If he’s just another winger… agree this deal makes no sense for the Avs. Avs have zero need for more wingers. They need a 2C and a 4C.

No thanks. If the Avs are trading Byram, they need to do better than this. They need something better than half measures and WAGs.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Depends on if the Avs think he can be a 2C, which is very obviously their biggest need.

Our pro scouts are good but they whiffed huge on the bad fit with RyJo as 2C. He’s too slow.

So suddenly their judgement is called into question.

If he’s just another winger… agree this deal makes no sense for the Avs. Avs have zero need for more wingers. They need a 2C and a 4C.

I really wonder how much of that is on the scouts vs Cmac just throwing a dart at a player to rebound at an affordable asset cost. I kinda feel like the scouts didn’t have much to do with that trade…

 

[ole ole]

To ARI
Johansen
Byram
Prosvetov

To COL
Schmaltz
Soderstrom
Vejmelka

Feel free to flame.

Does it better the chances for COL to win the cup? If so they should do it.

 

[McJedi]

I really wonder how much of that is on the scouts vs Cmac just throwing a dart at a player to rebound at an affordable asset cost. I kinda feel like the scouts didn’t have much to do with that trade…

That’s crazy and means our GM is a cowboy and shoots from the hip. Would be very concerning and a red flag on him as the GM.

Does it better the chances for COL to win the cup? If so they should do it.

There is obviously many caveats to a statement like that.

 

[McJedi]

No thanks. If the Avs are trading Byram, they need to do better than this. They need something better than half measures and WAGs.

Who do you have in mind?

Without Nuke, the Avs cup chances are shot. He’s one of our 4 mission critical players we won’t win without. In order - Mack, Makar, Rants, Nuke. He’s even more important than Toews, Geo and Lex.

If he’s done for the year, I’d punt on this season. But if he’s coming back. Our 2nd line of Lex - 2C - Nuke is screaming for someone that can handle the job.

Colton isn’t good enough. RyJo way too slow and Ritchie is still a few years away so we don’t have the answers in house.

 

[Avsfan1921]

That’s crazy and means our GM is a cowboy and shoots from the hip. Would be very concerning and a red flag on him as the GM.


There is obviously many caveats to a statement like that.

Not a whole lot of shooting from the hip considering Ryjo is a known commodity and played within the division. Avs management have to know what the players capabilities and downfalls are already andI’m sure Cmac was well aware of the potential for Ryjo to fail all on his own and didn’t need guidance from the scouts on this one. The cost is what made it an “anttractive” option.

 

[McJedi]

Not a whole lot of shooting from the hip considering Ryjo is a known commodity and played within the division. Avs management have to know what the players capabilities and downfalls are already andI’m sure Cmac was well aware of the potential for Ryjo to fail all on his own and didn’t need guidance from the scouts on this one. The cost is what made it an “anttractive” option.

The cost was free but the consequences of 2 years of $4mm in cap space for a guy that can’t skate a lick.

Such an obviously bad roster fit on the best skating team in the NHL.

He was shooting from the hip. We don’t tend to make major NHL roster for mistakes like this in the guys we’ve targeted.

 

[rt]

The cost was free but the consequences of 2 years of $4mm in cap space for a guy that can’t skate a lick.

Such an obviously bad roster fit on the best skating team in the NHL.

He was shooting from the hip. We don’t tend to make major NHL roster for mistakes like this in the guys we’ve targeted.

Schmaltz can definitely skate. Dude always looks fantastic lugging the puck up through the neutral zone, and nice controlled zone entries. It’s what makes him appealing at Center. He also uses his skating to close gaps and apply serious back pressure in the neutral zone. He’s good at stripping pucks.

He is bad in his own zone, though. And bad at faceoffs. And when he’s off his game, he’s a perimeter player and soft. When he’s on his game, he goes inside and uses his speed to persistently attack, attack, attack. And he’s a dual threat for passing or shooting. When he’s on his game. When he’s off, he defers too much.

I really would be curious to see him play for the Avs. It could be just what he needs. Then again, he’s been in the league a while now and his story hasn’t changed much. So he might just be what he isn’t. And just n out as good as you want because he flashes so much more.

 

[McJedi]

Schmaltz can definitely skate. Dude always looks fantastic lugging the puck up through the neutral zone, and nice controlled zone entries. It’s what makes him appealing at Center. He also uses his skating to close gaps and apply serious back pressure in the neutral zone. He’s good at stripping pucks.

He is bad in his own zone, though. And bad at faceoffs. And when he’s off his game, he’s a perimeter player and soft. When he’s on his game, he goes inside and uses his speed to persistently attack, attack, attack. And he’s a dual threat for passing or shooting. When he’s on his game. When he’s off, he defers too much.

I really would be curious to see him play for the Avs. It could be just what he needs. Then again, he’s been in the league a while now and his story hasn’t changed much. So he might just be what he isn’t. And just n out as good as you want because he flashes so much more.

Sounds like Byram.

When he’s skating, he looks excellent. Super dangerous. But he doesn’t constantly move his feet like Makar and toews.

If he ever learns to consistently keep his feet moving and turning, he’ll hit his ceiling as a top pair. It’s really that simple for him.

He’s got a nice shot. So so passer. Good handles and excellent skater. He’s good defensively. Better defensively than offensively. Willing to play the body and has learned to avoid taking hits. Really good at 50/50 pucks but bad at takeaways. Good at defending the blue line but doesn’t step into a lot of passing lanes like Toews does.

He’s stuck on the Avs behind Toews and Makar so I bet he’d want out. Because his ceiling to make money is limited by being deployed as our 3D playing with our crappy middle six.

 

[andora]

Schmaltz can definitely skate. Dude always looks fantastic lugging the puck up through the neutral zone, and nice controlled zone entries. It’s what makes him appealing at Center. He also uses his skating to close gaps and apply serious back pressure in the neutral zone. He’s good at stripping pucks.

He is bad in his own zone, though. And bad at faceoffs. And when he’s off his game, he’s a perimeter player and soft. When he’s on his game, he goes inside and uses his speed to persistently attack, attack, attack. And he’s a dual threat for passing or shooting. When he’s on his game. When he’s off, he defers too much.

I really would be curious to see him play for the Avs. It could be just what he needs. Then again, he’s been in the league a while now and his story hasn’t changed much. So he might just be what he isn’t. And just n out as good as you want because he flashes so much more.

Sounds like a nice rantanen/schmaltz combo offsetting duties

 

[John Mandalorian]

Who do you have in mind?

Without Nuke, the Avs cup chances are shot. He’s one of our 4 mission critical players we won’t win without. In order - Mack, Makar, Rants, Nuke. He’s even more important than Toews, Geo and Lex.

If he’s done for the year, I’d punt on this season. But if he’s coming back. Our 2nd line of Lex - 2C - Nuke is screaming for someone that can handle the job.

Colton isn’t good enough. RyJo way too slow and Ritchie is still a few years away so we don’t have the answers in house.

It depends on whats involved but Id rather target Nelson, Frost, or Roslovic (as a buy low option) than this. Thats assuming Nelson is even an option, btw.

They might very well end up with Wennberg, Granlund, or Roslovic though based on what CM likely wants to spend. Still, Id rather that than this. At least those shouldnt cost Byram.

 

[Perratrooper]

How does Az feel about Hayton instead of Soderstrom?

 

[McJedi]

It depends on whats involved but Id rather target Nelson, Frost, or Roslovic (as a buy low option) than this. Thats assuming Nelson is even an option, btw.

They might very well end up with Wennberg, Granlund, or Roslovic though based on what CM likely wants to spend. Still, Id rather that than this. At least those shouldnt cost Byram.

Agree. Wennberg hurt us last year in the playoffs. Roslovic feels risky. Low motor engagement guy many nights.

 

[Avsfan1921]

The cost was free but the consequences of 2 years of $4mm in cap space for a guy that can’t skate a lick.

Such an obviously bad roster fit on the best skating team in the NHL.

He was shooting from the hip. We don’t tend to make major NHL roster for mistakes like this in the guys we’ve targeted.

I agree that the acquisition was bad yes but Cmac should still have known the player and the chances involved. No need to rely on professional scouts to wonder if it was a risky trade imo.

 

[rt]

How does Az feel about Hayton instead of Soderstrom?

To me, Hayton alone is worth more than the entirety of the Arizona combined trio in the OP. Just my opinion.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I would do this because I think Byram will be one of the best D in the league soon.

But value wise? I don't think it's close. Schmaltz and Vejmelka should fetch more than Byram. I don't know why people think Schmaltz doesn't have value. Near PPG guy on a decent contract. Lot of teams will be happy to grab a guy like that, even if he isn't elite and has his warts, especially defensively. The cost will reflect that.

I also think we're swamped on D, I'd much rather trade 2-3D if we're getting one back.

 

[finkelsteinberg]

I would do this because I think Byram will be one of the best D in the league soon.

But value wise? I don't think it's close. Schmaltz and Vejmelka should fetch more than Byram. I don't know why people think Schmaltz doesn't have value. Near PPG guy on a decent contract. Lot of teams will be happy to grab a guy like that, even if he isn't elite and has his warts, especially defensively. The cost will reflect that.

I also think we're swamped on D, I'd much rather trade 2-3D if we're getting one back.

Have you been following the same Yotes team I am? Their defense sucks. Any notable potential help is years away. Schmaltz, while good, is injury prone and likes to take games off to the point of invisibility. He is a streaky player but when he is on, he is on so I don't think he isn't valued but Byram is a more valuable addition. Vejmelka hasn't looked good all year. I'm not sure he has value right now except for a low risk, high reward type of trade or put in a package, like this one.

I'd be worried trading Schmaltz screws up the organization's relationship with Keller. But at the same time, they need a shake-up.

This trade works for Avs and Yotes because they are on different timelines. I would do it if I am Yotes and I would look for a better trade if I were the Avs, but wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Have you been following the same Yotes team I am? Their defense sucks. Any notable potential help is years away. Schmaltz, while good, is injury prone and likes to take games off to the point of invisibility. He is a streaky player but when he is on, he is on so I don't think he isn't valued but Byram is a more valuable addition. Vejmelka hasn't looked good all year. I'm not sure he has value right now except for a low risk, high reward type of trade or put in a package, like this one.

I'd be worried trading Schmaltz screws up the organization's relationship with Keller. But at the same time, they need a shake-up.

This trade works for Avs and Yotes because they are on different timelines. I would do it if I am Yotes and I would look for a better trade if I were the Avs, but wouldn't rule it out.

Byram has had even more injury problems and taken more time off than Schmaltz has. I'm a huge fan of his but there's a lot more risk with Byram than there is Schmaltz.

Vejmelka hasn't looked amazing but our defense has sucked all year.

And yes, we are swamped with defenseman. None of them are good, top pairing D, and none of them are solid Defensive D-men, which is our problem- only Stetcher and sometimes Moser play that type of game even remotely.

And yeah, Schmaltz is what he is. But he's still pretty young, entering his prime, and most importantly will be relatively cheap to acquire.

As I said, I would do this in a heartbeat because I love Byram, but I'm pretty sure we could get more, we're taking a 4m deadweight back, Prosvetov is also worthless and would potentially go through waivers at this point.

Byram definitely has value, but I doubt we're going to give this kind of value based on half a season of play.

I would rather just do something like Johansen + Byram for Schmaltz as was proposed by another COL fan in another thread.

 

[rt]

Sounds like Byram.

When he’s skating, he looks excellent. Super dangerous. But he doesn’t constantly move his feet like Makar and toews.

If he ever learns to consistently keep his feet moving and turning, he’ll hit his ceiling as a top pair. It’s really that simple for him.

He’s got a nice shot. So so passer. Good handles and excellent skater. He’s good defensively. Better defensively than offensively. Willing to play the body and has learned to avoid taking hits. Really good at 50/50 pucks but bad at takeaways. Good at defending the blue line but doesn’t step into a lot of passing lanes like Toews does.

He’s stuck on the Avs behind Toews and Makar so I bet he’d want out. Because his ceiling to make money is limited by being deployed as our 3D playing with our crappy middle six.

Agree with all of this. But the age/salary difference on Schmaltz vs Byram is why I’m willing to eat the RyJo dump and add another asset.

Though, the poll results make me wonder if that 3rd AZ asset is necessary. These are pretty lopsided results.

Is it closer if it’s just Schmaltz and Vejmelka for Byram, Prosvetov and Johansen?

 

[John Mandalorian]

I would do this because I think Byram will be one of the best D in the league soon.

But value wise? I don't think it's close. Schmaltz and Vejmelka should fetch more than Byram. I don't know why people think Schmaltz doesn't have value. Near PPG guy on a decent contract. Lot of teams will be happy to grab a guy like that, even if he isn't elite and has his warts, especially defensively. The cost will reflect that.

I also think we're swamped on D, I'd much rather trade 2-3D if we're getting one back.

Potential doesn't impact value?

 

[Napoli]

Personally I would not take Johansen for anything, he is a lazy finished player who you constantly have to motivate. Just a non starter.

 

[rt]

Byram has had even more injury problems and taken more time off than Schmaltz has. I'm a huge fan of his but there's a lot more risk with Byram than there is Schmaltz.

Vejmelka hasn't looked amazing but our defense has sucked all year.

And yes, we are swamped with defenseman. None of them are good, top pairing D, and none of them are solid Defensive D-men, which is our problem- only Stetcher and sometimes Moser play that type of game even remotely.

And yeah, Schmaltz is what he is. But he's still pretty young, entering his prime, and most importantly will be relatively cheap to acquire.

As I said, I would do this in a heartbeat because I love Byram, but I'm pretty sure we could get more, we're taking a 4m deadweight back, Prosvetov is also worthless and would potentially go through waivers at this point.

Byram definitely has value, but I doubt we're going to give this kind of value based on half a season of play.

I would rather just do something like Johansen + Byram for Schmaltz as was proposed by another COL fan in another thread.

Would you be more sold if it was Byram, RyJo, and Prosvetov for just Schmaltz and Veggie? No 3rd asset from AZ?

 

[finkelsteinberg]

Byram has had even more injury problems and taken more time off than Schmaltz has. I'm a huge fan of his but there's a lot more risk with Byram than there is Schmaltz.

Vejmelka hasn't looked amazing but our defense has sucked all year.

And yes, we are swamped with defenseman. None of them are good, top pairing D, and none of them are solid Defensive D-men, which is our problem- only Stetcher and sometimes Moser play that type of game even remotely.

And yeah, Schmaltz is what he is. But he's still pretty young, entering his prime, and most importantly will be relatively cheap to acquire.

As I said, I would do this in a heartbeat because I love Byram, but I'm pretty sure we could get more, we're taking a 4m deadweight back, Prosvetov is also worthless and would potentially go through waivers at this point.

Byram definitely has value, but I doubt we're going to give this kind of value based on half a season of play.

I would rather just do something like Johansen + Byram for Schmaltz as was proposed by another COL fan in another thread.

Byram is younger, cheaper and has higher upside. I'd assume the yotes could waive any of the D not named Moser, Durzi and maybeeee Valimaki and they would clear and we could also just send Dermott down.

 

[Perratrooper]

To me, Hayton alone is worth more than the entirety of the Arizona combined trio in the OP. Just my opinion.

Okay I’m clearly way out on how Az fans feel about him. Thanks!

 

[rt]

Okay I’m clearly way out on how Az fans feel about him. Thanks!

It’s complicated. There’s a division among fans. My hopes are high.

Byram is younger, cheaper and has higher upside. I'd assume the yotes could waive any of the D not named Moser, Durzi and maybeeee Valimaki and they would clear and we could also just send Dermott down.

Kesselring has been good. Better than Valimaki. And Dumba had a rough start but has been better. I think he’ll return a 3rd rounder, or so. Stecher has been really good. Maybe third best D on the team. But he’s hurt.

Ideally:

XXXX-XXXX
Moser-Durzi
Valimaki-Kesselring
Stecher

We’re just missing an entire first pairing. Even with two top D, that’s more of an average than great D corps.

Hence the reason why I made this thread. Haha.