Coaching Thread

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Gm0ney

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Oct 12, 2011
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I would not be surprised if the management group that...
  • thought Claude Noel was a good choice to be an NHL coach
  • took 5 years to figure out that Pavelec was a terrible goalie
  • tried to sign Ladd over Buff
  • thought Mark Stuart was worth a $10.5M deal over 4 years at age 30
  • brought in such talent as Setoguchi (for a 2nd! during the soft-tank years!), Kulikov (when they lost the Alzner sweepstakes) and Bitetto (to fill the Trouba-Myers-Chiarot hole)
  • signed Little a year early and got burned, so tried it again with Wheeler
  • put together a team that's going to be 3 for 9 making the playoffs (after this year)
  • doesn't seem concerned with league-worst underlying numbers for over a year
...would be just happy as clams to extend Paul Maurice.

Outside of amateur scouting, judgement doesn't seem to be this group's strong suit.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
Wrong systems or maybe the right system and the players are not following along.
So, assuming there may be some truth in that statement, if no one is following the system being preached, how do you know it's the wrong system?

Maurice strikes me as a very frustrated coach right now - and the players could be causing the frustration. I guess that could be what you call "losing the room" or maybe it's just lazy players -
Just throwing stuff out there - maybe look at it from more than one angle.

regardless, if they keep losing, the coach will be the first to go - but I see a major issue with our players, namely the forwards, who are not prepared to put in the work necessary to help out the D end of our game.

This dialogue won't go over well with those who think we have this super talented forward roster who are simply waiting to be coached by the right guy:

a) The right guy is a coach who will some how convince this bunch that hard work is a big part of the NHL game - or -
b) The right coach is the guy that somehow transitions our game into an offensive goal scoring machine where our depleted back end won't matter because we'll never be in our own end.

My biggest issue with laying the full blame on the players is that the coach really hasn't tried anything new. He's employing largely the same basic scheme albiet more restricted this year and the results aren't there.

Would not a smart coach say "Ok we now have about 100 games of data and things aren't going the way we anticipated so let's make some structural tweaks and see if it will improve some results" There is a good saying and that is focus on what you can control. As a coach you can control the systems, I've time, lineups. Use those tools to get the desired results. I don't believe he is fully making use of the tools he has.

I also don't buy that a group of professional athletes, many of which had to bust their asses to get to this level are inherently lazy. Maybe Maurice needs to go to his players and ask them how they think as a team they will be successful and meet them half way on some items as its clear to me that there is a lack of engagement from certain players.
 

Howard Chuck

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Wrong systems or maybe the right system and the players are not following along.
So, assuming there may be some truth in that statement, if no one is following the system being preached, how do you know it's the wrong system?

Maurice strikes me as a very frustrated coach right now - and the players could be causing the frustration. I guess that could be what you call "losing the room" or maybe it's just lazy players -
Just throwing stuff out there - maybe look at it from more than one angle.

regardless, if they keep losing, the coach will be the first to go - but I see a major issue with our players, namely the forwards, who are not prepared to put in the work necessary to help out the D end of our game.

This dialogue won't go over well with those who think we have this super talented forward roster who are simply waiting to be coached by the right guy:

a) The right guy is a coach who will some how convince this bunch that hard work is a big part of the NHL game - or -
b) The right coach is the guy that somehow transitions our game into an offensive goal scoring machine where our depleted back end won't matter because we'll never be in our own end.

If it's the players not following the 'systems', then imo it's still ultimately on the coach, as it's his job to ensure that they play the system. If he can't, then he's the wrong coach.

I haven't seen anyone benched or scratched yet, so I'm assuming they are doing mostly what they've been told.

I'm just throwing things out here, like most are, but the coach is responsible for the type of play and making the players follow through.
 

Jets 31

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I would not be surprised if the management group that...
  • thought Claude Noel was a good choice to be an NHL coach
  • took 5 years to figure out that Pavelec was a terrible goalie
  • tried to sign Ladd over Buff
  • thought Mark Stuart was worth a $10.5M deal over 4 years at age 30
  • brought in such talent as Setoguchi (for a 2nd! during the soft-tank years!), Kulikov (when they lost the Alzner sweepstakes) and Bitetto (to fill the Trouba-Myers-Chiarot hole)
  • signed Little a year early and got burned, so tried it again with Wheeler
  • put together a team that's going to be 3 for 9 making the playoffs (after this year)
  • doesn't seem concerned with league-worst underlying numbers for over a year
...would be just happy as clams to extend Paul Maurice.

Outside of amateur scouting, judgement doesn't seem to be this group's strong suit.
To be fair they have done some good things . They have drafted well and signed some of our young talent to very good contracts and the team definitely has more talent then when they came here . They just have to figure out why they aren't winning enough games right now .
 

Jetfaninflorida

Southernmost Jet Fan
Dec 13, 2013
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Another way to look at this could be 'what are we actually very good at' specifically as it relates to our skill set. It's not possible to have a mix of players who cannot be really good at anything at all, save Detriot maybe. Yet, we aren't strong in any particular area. To pick an obvious one, with our elite up front talent you would expect our power play to be much better - but it is so stagnant, stale, stationary and predictable and has been for a long time. What are we really good at, Paul?
 

Howard Chuck

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Another way to look at this could be 'what are we actually very good at' specifically as it relates to our skill set. It's not possible to have a mix of players who cannot be really good at anything at all, save Detriot maybe. Yet, we aren't strong in any particular area. To pick an obvious one, with our elite up front talent you would expect our power play to be much better - but it is so stagnant, stale, stationary and predictable and has been for a long time. What are we really good at, Paul?
Very good question!
 
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buggs

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My biggest issue with laying the full blame on the players is that the coach really hasn't tried anything new. He's employing largely the same basic scheme albiet more restricted this year and the results aren't there.

Would not a smart coach say "Ok we now have about 100 games of data and things aren't going the way we anticipated so let's make some structural tweaks and see if it will improve some results" There is a good saying and that is focus on what you can control. As a coach you can control the systems, I've time, lineups. Use those tools to get the desired results. I don't believe he is fully making use of the tools he has.

I also don't buy that a group of professional athletes, many of which had to bust their asses to get to this level are inherently lazy. Maybe Maurice needs to go to his players and ask them how they think as a team they will be successful and meet them half way on some items as its clear to me that there is a lack of engagement from certain players.

I'm kind of blown away that there's a single system in place period. I know probably a lot here hate basketball but even in high school our coach had four different "looks" on defence depending on what the other team was bringing. Three of them were zones with different structures and man to man for the fourth D. I'm not a hockey coach but how hard would it be to implement two systems - zone and man (or even a mix of the two?). You switch them up depending on the opponent and how you match up with them. I would think mixing them up in game would be a heck of an approach as well. We ran all four schemes within every game - rarely the same scheme down the floor twice in row, but it did happen if the other team wasn't working against it very well. Now obviously hockey isn't basketball but it's not that much more complicated if at all. And while I might occasionally poke fun at how smart some hockey players might be, they certainly haven't achieved this level by being as dumb as a bunch of high school basketball kids.

I don't dislike Maurice. I didn't dislike Noel either. In fact I love their interviews as they both are quite articulate and seem genuinely quite sharp. But that isn't enough at this point.

While I do agree that Maurice should get a little break given the defensive core he was saddled with this year, at the same time, as has been pointed out many times, we are seeing the exact same issues we saw last year from December on. So it's nowhere near as simple as bad D players. Yes, that plays a role, no question, but January through April last year was pretty darn awful. I don't remember the metrics from October-December of the prior season, but if they were similar to this year of the same time frame then the issue has really very little to do with the staffing on the D, it's a bad scheme that isn't working.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
Another way to look at this could be 'what are we actually very good at' specifically as it relates to our skill set. It's not possible to have a mix of players who cannot be really good at anything at all, save Detriot maybe. Yet, we aren't strong in any particular area. To pick an obvious one, with our elite up front talent you would expect our power play to be much better - but it is so stagnant, stale, stationary and predictable and has been for a long time. What are we really good at, Paul?

Agreed. Has this org not done a SWOT analysis to determine how best to proceed. You would think that should be the first thing done prior to deriving the type of system you want to run.

For me the biggest head scratcher is Maurice's insistence that our offensive scheme be derived predominantly from the points. If you are to look at the strength of this teams skilled forwards I would say the g
Biggest strength is shooting talent. Wouldn't the most optimum offensive scheme be based fully on getting the puck into the hands of our world class shooters in high dangerous scoring areas? Nope Moe believes it's best to have our dmen shoot the puck.

Let's also not pretend that there isn't evidence to support this type of philosophy. Back in 17-18 There was a significant emphasis put on getting the puck to our shooters in the slot and low and behold we had our best offensive and all around year.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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Wrong systems or maybe the right system and the players are not following along.
So, assuming there may be some truth in that statement, if no one is following the system being preached, how do you know it's the wrong system?

Maurice strikes me as a very frustrated coach right now - and the players could be causing the frustration. I guess that could be what you call "losing the room" or maybe it's just lazy players -
Just throwing stuff out there - maybe look at it from more than one angle.

regardless, if they keep losing, the coach will be the first to go - but I see a major issue with our players, namely the forwards, who are not prepared to put in the work necessary to help out the D end of our game.

This dialogue won't go over well with those who think we have this super talented forward roster who are simply waiting to be coached by the right guy:

a) The right guy is a coach who will some how convince this bunch that hard work is a big part of the NHL game - or -
b) The right coach is the guy that somehow transitions our game into an offensive goal scoring machine where our depleted back end won't matter because we'll never be in our own end.
I don’t think this team has a work ethic problem. You keep boiling it down to them just bringing their lunch pails along and all will be fine. I don’t think that’s the issue. The not playing the system part is a more of a recent turn of events imo.

They look confused and frustrated imo. I think that’s on the coach. They look like a disorganized mess most games, they either don’t understand what they are supposed to be doing or they are having trouble executing it. Either one of those is on the coach to solve. It’s entirely possible a new coach can communicate his ideas better and possibly implement something either easier to execute and/or more suited to the talent on the ice. Granted, it’s only going to ever be so good with the available pieces on the back end.

I don’t know, I just don’t think effort is their biggest problem, and that includes Scheifele.
 

AWSAA

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Sep 8, 2003
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To be fair they have done some good things . They have drafted well and signed some of our young talent to very good contracts and the team definitely has more talent then when they came here . They just have to figure out why they aren't winning enough games right now .

They've drafted well with high picks. They've yet to hit a homerun outside of the 1st round. The selections of Roslovic, Stanley (trading up), and Vesalainen (trading down) may have been the difference between a long sustained window of contention and what we're experiencing now.
 
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Heldig

Registered User
Apr 12, 2002
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I am not a hockey coach but I have coached other team sports so can use that as a comparison.

When teaching a system to the team you have to;
a) be able to teach it
b) get your players to understand it implicitly so they react not think and react

If the system is failing it is because:
a) you failed to teach it well enough
b) the players are not talented enough / smart enough and/or willing to work hard enough
OR
c) coach has implemented the wrong system for the players he has
 

DashingDane

Dutch boy
Dec 16, 2014
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They've drafted well with high picks. They've yet to hit a homerun outside of the 1st round. The selections of Roslovic, Stanley (trading up), and Vesalainen (trading down) may have been the difference between a long sustained window of contention and what we're experiencing now.

personally I’d call our all-star and vezna candidate 5 round goalie a home run. I’d even consider agreeing with it being a grand slam
 
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Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
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To be fair they have done some good things . They have drafted well and signed some of our young talent to very good contracts and the team definitely has more talent then when they came here . They just have to figure out why they aren't winning enough games right now .
They have indeed done some good things - they've drafted so well that they briefly overcame their weaknesses elsewhere. I was just highlighting some of the terrible judgement calls they've made and how a Maurice extension would fit right in...
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
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I am not a hockey coach but I have coached other team sports so can use that as a comparison.

When teaching a system to the team you have to;
a) be able to teach it
b) get your players to understand it implicitly so they react not think and react

If the system is failing it is because:
a) you failed to teach it well enough
b) the players are not talented enough / smart enough and/or willing to work hard enough
OR
c) coach has implemented the wrong system for the players he has
_______________________________________________

I do agree with what Craig Button from TSN had to say about the Jets. He basically think they've done pretty good considering they've lost most of their starting defenseman --and I agree with him.

Would a coaching change make that much difference right now, with this defense we have. I'm not so sure it would ??

What I do believe going forward, id we have some cornerstone pieces in place for a good team in the near future --and that is Goaltending, and a great forward group.

We just need to address the defense situation --and we should be fine. We need a couple good sized D-men that have some skill as well IMO. We need at least 2 of them, and with Chevy being a former defenseman, he will know that, and "fix" the problem.
 

AWSAA

.............
Sep 8, 2003
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personally I’d call our all-star and vezna candidate 5 round goalie a home run. I’d even consider agreeing with it being a grand slam

Most starting goalies are drafted in the later rounds

Hellebuyck has been a disappointment since coming out of college honestly. I had high hopes. We were forced to overpay Mason/dump Armia because of a rough first year, he let us down vs Vegas when it mattered most, wasn't good enough last year, and is falling off hard now. That's a grand slam?
 
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LowLefty

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I don’t think this team has a work ethic problem. You keep boiling it down to them just bringing their lunch pails along and all will be fine. I don’t think that’s the issue. The not playing the system part is a more of a recent turn of events imo.

They look confused and frustrated imo. I think that’s on the coach. They look like a disorganized mess most games, they either don’t understand what they are supposed to be doing or they are having trouble executing it. Either one of those is on the coach to solve. It’s entirely possible a new coach can communicate his ideas better and possibly implement something either easier to execute and/or more suited to the talent on the ice. Granted, it’s only going to ever be so good with the available pieces on the back end.

I don’t know, I just don’t think effort is their biggest problem, and that includes Scheifele.

Actually, I do boil it down to hard work - because that's the part that's missing IMO.
I have no doubt the coach takes the fall for all of it - that's the way it works when teams stop playing for you.
I hope new blood behind the bench has an impact - but again, IMO, if they don't start working harder, especially in their own end, I can't see it making much of a difference
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
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personally I’d call our all-star and vezna candidate 5 round goalie a home run. I’d even consider agreeing with it being a grand slam
The Jets have done well in the late rounds...trying to think who else would compare. Tampa's the only team I can think of that drafted more quality out of rounds 3-7:

Palat, Nesterov, Paquette, Dotchin, Gusev, Point, Cirelli
vs.
Lowry, Hellebuyck, Copp, Poolman, Appleton, Niku

I think Tampa wins that one pretty handily.

But does anyone else come close?
 

nobody imp0rtant

Registered pessimist
May 23, 2018
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Most starting goalies are drafted in the later rounds

Hellebuyck has been a disappointment since coming out of college honestly. I had high hopes. We were forced to overpay Mason/dump Armia because of a rough first year, he let us down vs Vegas when it mattered most, wasn't good enough last year, and is falling off hard now. That's a grand slam?

Now you've done it... :eek:

6876e920bf70ee3f5f1b349a92c99bbf.jpg


:popcorn:
 

tbcwpg

Moderator
Jan 25, 2011
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Most starting goalies are drafted in the later rounds

Hellebuyck has been a disappointment since coming out of college honestly. I had high hopes. We were forced to overpay Mason/dump Armia because of a rough first year, he let us down vs Vegas when it mattered most, wasn't good enough last year, and is falling off hard now. That's a grand slam?

Hahaha one of the worst takes in a thread with plenty of them.

Hellebuyck is going to struggle, like any goalie, when 90% of the shots come within 5 feet of the net. He's likely to be a Vezina finalist in two of the past three years. What else are you looking for, the reincarnation of Terry Sawchuk?
 
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