Management Claude Julien - Part Deux

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Absurdity

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Jul 6, 2012
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I'm not for firing Claude but like what many of you said here, if it's on the players, the current core, and leaders on this team at fault for their horrendous play, is Claude going to still want to coach here knowing that any veteran player a part of this team's current core not named Marchand and Bergeron can potentially be moved leaving younger guys to win spots on the roster? I'd say there is probably an 80% he'd want to leave. I would not mind him coaching our upcoming prospects but like I said, I'm wary Claude would want to do that.
 

Therick67

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Apr 6, 2009
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I'm with you. The inescapable message I've seen is that they just aren't that bothered.

They have taken a total of 5 points out of a possible 20 over past ten games. During a period of time when a virtually guaranteed playoff spot (a decent PO slot at that) was without question waiting to be taken.

And yet I've not seen an angry word or an angry play out of the vast majority of the team.

I'd be furious at myself, the coach, my teammates, the refs, the opponents, the media, you name it. I'd sure as hell play like I was furious and fed up.

If you project the last ten games over a full season that would project to a 41 point season!!!!! At a time when it matters most that is shocking, disappointing, and incredible.

Keep in mind, a fair number of players on this team did the EXACT same thing last season.

The system may not be great. The Coach may not be great. However, it is NOT the reason behind this disgraceful limping to the end of the season.

Bottom line is the Coach, the Players, and the System put them in a prime position to have a favorable first round matchup in PO's. It isn't the System or the Coach that hasn't delivered these past 10 games.

I'm pissed. I know that.

Agreed. You don't have to be a great team to have pride and put it on the line.

My Pee Wee team seems to get more pissed off about losing.
 

jgatie

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The first period was the system at its finest. If you want to argue the 2nd, I might agree.

Nope. Sorry. And I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. The first period was the hybrid system they played in the first few games, mainly because of the D pinches and pushing the play. And they got BURNED. Now if you want to argue the balls to the walls effort to come back should have been the way they came out, I might accept it. But only an anti-Claude agenda that blames any and everything on the System would call the first period a risk averse, tight, defense-first game. No way, no how.
 

LSCII

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It's amazing how the same people defend Julien regardless of what happens, and nothing he ever does is his fault. If the team isn't ready to go in a must win game, it's the players. If the team can't score a goal, it's the players lack of finish. If he doesn't use his best goal scorer in the shoot out, it's because that guy sucks at shootouts. If he puts Randall on the ice as the extra attacker with the goalie pulled, it's the players. If he puts 5 centers on the ice as his first line PP unit, and not his best scorer and they can't score, it's the players fault. If his lines are mismatched to **** all season long, and they don't mesh, but he doesn't shake them up, it's the players fault.

I guess I have to ask, after watching the team **** the bed down the stretch in two straight years, when do you get to question his moves? Is this something we can ever actually do?
 

indy

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Lack of passion. Did the B's look like a desperate team against Carolina last night to you? They did not to me.

How about against the Devils?

How about against Panthers?

Those last two were must win - could of won -- games. We all knew it. Did they play like that?

Last night was a desperation game. Did they look like that to you?

It is a little sad when the fans seem to want it more than the players.
 

CriticalBruin

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Because the Coach and the "system" got them to a point where, given the clear lack of defensive skill and depth, not many could have expected. A solid chance to be in the playoffs against just about anyone other than Washington.

All they needed to do was play these last 10 games like their season rested on even a .500 performance -- particularly given the fact that Detroit was essentially inviting us to put them in our rear view mirror.

Professional athletes who get the support of management at TDL by not selling, need to approach all of those games with a will to win. Particulalry last night.

Instead we got a fairly passionless (given the stakes) performance in which our only goal was a lucky break in which LE scored on essentially a shootout play.

Not good enough. The Coach and the System can't be expected to take the place for the players playing like the REFUSED to lose.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see it.

True winners hate losing more than they love winning. Coaches and the System can't take the place of that when the chips are on the line.

In my opinion, this team is exactly where it should be. A borderline playoff team. I'm pretty sure many others share this sentiment, so to say not many expected them to be here is a stretch.

The Bruins had the easiest schedule in the league for the first 2/3 of the season and the hardest schedule for the last 1/3 of the season, and it shows. People thought the Bruins were a more competitive team than they really were before this stretch, which lead to unwarranted expectations. They are now exactly where they should be- fighting for a playoff spot. So to claim that the coaching staff somehow put them in a better position is completely false.

The coach is the one person that should have total control of the locker room and bench. How then, can he play no part in the team's mentality during a game? He should be the one setting the tone for the rest of the team. It may be the players responsibility to maintain the right mentality, but it is also the coach's responsibility to help get them there.
 

xStanleyCupsFor

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Reader's Digest version (somewhat :laugh:):

Neely was hired, Chia and Clode not "his guys", but they are winning, so he let's them do their thing. Think he was tasked with more of the business side of things than hockey side to begin with. Lots of hockey people in organization, Benning, Bradley, etc., so no need for Neely to be super hands on.

Fast Forward to after the Cup. B's haven't drafted well, they have made some bad deals, signed some bad contracts, cracks starting to show, team starting to age. Chia and Sweeney supposedly not on same page, not getting along. Benning leaves for VAN, and Neely not liking the product, starts to get more involved. Sees what's going on last year and overrules Chia at the deadline. If the rumored deal with ARI was true (1st, Spooner, Krug, other stuff for Vermette, Yandle, stuff), it would have been a disaster and Neely was absolutely right to veto it. Bruins miss playoffs, and Chia gets the axe. Neely's first "real" move as Prez and he promotes a guy he trusts and is more comfortable with in Sweeney.

They see what the issues are and have some choices. Full-blown overhaul, stay the course, or rebuild on the fly. They choose the latter (which was probably the hardest path) and Sweeney begins by shipping out two starters that were going to be demanding big money and one apparently didn't want to be here. He does some other deals, creates some Cap space and re-stocks the prospect pool by drafting a bunch of kids and signing some good FA prospects. He and Neely had to know that the D was going to be rough and hoping that Chara and Sides could regain some of their lost form. He supposedly tried to deal up in the draft to get Hanifan (poss Werenski), so they knew they needed some impact D in short order. You see this again at the deadline when they try to acquire Shattenkirk.

I may be in the minority, but I don't have any major issues with what Sweeney or Neely have done in the last year (3rd for Rinaldo was high, wished they had dealt Loui at deadline). I didn't think that the B's were a playoff team at the beginning of the season and totally had this pegged as a transition year. The team over-performed for much of the year (until the last 10), and I thought they had a shot to make the playoffs, but didn't have them going further than the 2nd round. This was a bonus in my mind, given the transition year.

Back to Neely. He has had "his guy" in place for less than a year, so I think it's kind of premature to judge him on this. I think that Chia and Co were on autopilot when he got here. So, I don't give him much credit for the Cup, but I also don't bash him for a lot of the stuff that came after. To me, he will be judged by what his GM and the team do moving forward. If they fail, he should be held responsible, but it's way too early to judge that.

As far as Clode goes, think he has done a good job getting the team to the cusp of the playoffs, given what he's had to work with. At the same time, I completely disagree with the way he has utilized and developed the young d-men this year. I don't blame him for not going more up-tempo and aggressive given the makeup of his D, but I also question if he is capable of playing that style, even with a better D corps on the roster. He plays it very conservatively and appears (to me anyway) to be a poor "in-game adjustment" coach for the most part. If Neely and Sweeney want to play a more aggressive, attacking style of game, I am not sure Clode is the best choice. However, I don't see much out there that's better (and proven). So, I'm on the fence with Clode. I would not be surprised if he was fired, given the collapse down the stretch two years in a row and Neely's public frustration with his conservative coaching style. On the other hand, I wouldn't be shocked if Neely and Sweeney said, "Clode, our bad, we didn't give you the ammo you needed this year to me more aggressive, and we want you back".

Not sure this helps anybody with their thought process on this and I could be 180 degrees off (but I doubt it ;)).

Great write up. Pretty much the way I feel and read the situation.
 

Absurdity

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Jul 6, 2012
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Nope. Sorry. And I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. The first period was the hybrid system they played in the first few games, mainly because of the D pinches and pushing the play. And they got BURNED. Now if you want to argue the balls to the walls effort to come back should have been the way they came out, I might accept it. But only an anti-Claude agenda that blames any and everything on the System would call the first period a risk averse, tight, defense-first game. No way, no how.
I'm not taking sides here, but what about sticking to the system in the 3rd period against St. Louis? Jarvis said they did well in the 2nd by getting pucks on net, and that their gameplan in the 3rd is to slow St. Louis down in the neutral zone and dump pucks in the offensive zone. That strategy almost resulted in a Bruins loss to St. Louis. I'm surprised no one here has really spoke out about Jarvis' comments.

This isn't directed at you, but I feel like many here feel as if there are only two extremes in a system, either shape your game defensively, or play "run and gun, stick'em up shoot'em up wild west hockey". What the Bruins need is a mixture of both. Tire opposing teams in the offensive zone by getting pucks on net, establish a forecheck early on, and establish a cycle-game/spending a good chunk of time in the offensive zone as well as being defensively sound in your own zone and make it hard on the opposing team in the neutral zone causing turnovers because your offense tires down your opponents. I hope what I'm explaining isn't sorcery because I believe what I just explained is similar to how the Bruins played in 2010-2011 that got them a Stanley Cup.
 

indy

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Oct 18, 2015
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Nope. Sorry. And I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. The first period was the hybrid system they played in the first few games, mainly because of the D pinches and pushing the play. And they got BURNED. Now if you want to argue the balls to the walls effort to come back should have been the way they came out, I might accept it. But only an anti-Claude agenda that blames any and everything on the System would call the first period a risk averse, tight, defense-first game. No way, no how.

I think that is what most of us are asking for.

When they play that way. Good things happen

To me Bruins hockey is "Balls to the wall."
 

xStanleyCupsFor

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Sep 12, 2014
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Pittsburgh has enough talent on its roster from top to bottom to be able to play well under anyone who can keep them motivated. This team does not have the level or depth of talent that Pittsburgh does.

Funny because Pitt's roster problems for the past few years has been lack of depth. It's the problem 95% of NHL rosters face under the cap system. You need some surprises and over performing rookies on entry level contracts to counter that. Draft well, consistently, and hit on some of those. It's the only way.
 

njbruin*

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I am so sick of blaming the front office, gm, coaches, etc…..blame lies on the players. This is a mentally fragile, soft, non-intimidating team with what seems to be a clear lack of leadership and desperation. Quiet leaders like Bergeron and Chara have to do more. Set the tone. I don't see anyone going above and beyond or any player on the ice that really wants it. NOT ONE. They have no pulse and there is no passion in their play….they mail it way too often.

When one of your leaders is asked pre-game what needs to happen to win tonight and he responds with respect the system, there is a problem.

He didn't come out and say we need to pour our heart and soul into it , give everything we got , desperation must win, he responds with respect the system. Tells me this team is brain washed into believing that all will be fine if they just follow the script. Julien and his system has taken the emotion out of this team , they're like some freaking neutered zombies.
 

Alicat

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You must have missed the more recent articles interviewing Amorello (sp?) and him admitting that firing Claude was his biggest regret and that had he known or realized some of the situation that he didn't at the time he would never have let him go. Using NJ doing it as they did is not a good example when the powers that make those decisions admit it was a wrong move.

She clearly hasn't read a thing about what Lou Lams has said recently. She's been too busy harping on Claude being fired from NJ. In fact, she's been doing it for a few years now. You just need to ignore her bs.
 

njbruin*

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Nope. Sorry. And I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. The first period was the hybrid system they played in the first few games, mainly because of the D pinches and pushing the play. And they got BURNED. Now if you want to argue the balls to the walls effort to come back should have been the way they came out, I might accept it. But only an anti-Claude agenda that blames any and everything on the System would call the first period a risk averse, tight, defense-first game. No way, no how.

The first period had 2 goals scored against them . One was on the freaking PP and was a fluke. The second came off a horrible D-D pass on a 4 on 4. Neither of those is system related or wild west hockey like you want to call it. But I can understand where your confusion may lie , I recall Pierre talking about how in the 1st meeting with Chi they aggresively pinched their D .
 
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