CIS going pro - 2014/15

[AdamMcg83]

I am generally not one to defend UNB, but you need to know that there is a patent difference between the recruiting of CHL players and the recruiting of grad students.

If you are going to argue (as I have in the past) that UNB has low entrance standards for their undergrad programs, that's one thing. There is some merit to that argument.

BUT, for a player to get into a graduate program, they have to have (1) completed their undergrad degree, and (2) maintained an acceptable standard - typically a minimum B average - to get accepted into a graduate program. And whereas many universities have some flexibility for enrolment into undergraduate programs, there is much less flexibility for enrolment into graduate programs. Deans are more protective of their graduate programs.

Now, I'm not saying that these transfers are all Rhodes Scholars, but by completing their degree in 3-4 years with at least a B average, they are achieving what is expected of "student-athletes." Good for them that they have earned the right to transfer schools after 4 years AND that they choose to pursue a graduate degree rather than turning pro, and good for UNB that they attract these accomplished student-athletes.

Kind-of-related question for everyone who is in the know - what is a standard academic average for a CIS men's hockey team?

 

[AUS Fan]

"Now, I'm not saying that these transfers are all Rhodes Scholars, but by completing their degree in 3-4 years with at least a B average, they are achieving what is expected of "student-athletes." Good for them that they have earned the right to transfer schools after 4 years AND that they choose to pursue a graduate degree rather than turning pro, and good for UNB that they attract these accomplished student-athletes."

Nice of you to defend UNB. Two players that I mentioned did Not have a B average. One was, I believe C+ and another Did Not Graduate from SFX. I have no issue with a student-athlete transferring to another school; I do have an issue with any school that has a "disproportionate" number of such transfers, regardless of the sport. I take issue with guys who come back for a 5th year and take 3 courses just to play. It happens. I disagree with it. I'm not a hater of UNB or anyone else; I'm a dreamer who likes to see a fairly level playing field.

Edit: SMU had a guy about 5 years ago who was "almost" a Rhodes Scholar. Commerce student who now works in New York making 10 figure salary, including decimals.

 

[AUS Fan]

ueens

Kind-of-related question for everyone who is in the know - what is a standard academic average for a CIS men's hockey team?

That would depend on the school. I'm not going to opine on that question. I do know that some schools have Low and others have High standards. And I'll leave it there.

 

[AdamMcg83]

That would depend on the school. I'm not going to opine on that question. I do know that some schools have Low and others have High standards. And I'll leave it there.

Makes sense. FWIW, Waterloo has been making this info public for a couple years now. Last season, their academic average was 79.6%, and the internal goal this season is 80%. Half the team (12 of 24 student-athletes) were named Academic All-Canadians.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Makes sense. FWIW, Waterloo has been making this info public for a couple years now. Last season, their academic average was 79.6%, and the internal goal this season is 80%. Half the team (12 of 24 student-athletes) were named Academic All-Canadians.

That's an impressive number for Waterloo, which is renowned for having high academic standards.

It is, however, extremely difficult to compare across schools. I don't think anyone would disagree that an A at Queen's or RMC is tad bit more difficult to achieve than an A at (for example) Windsor or Brock.

 

[Drummer]

Kind-of-related question for everyone who is in the know - what is a standard academic average for a CIS men's hockey team?

There are two parts to your question; the academic standard for entrance and then the team's academic performance (or average).

I would agree that the entrance requirements for Waterloo, McGill, UBC and others is higher than (lets say) STU and/or UNB. That's a standard created by the school. We have discussed, in other threads, the pros/cons of such a criteria and it's impacts on athletics, but it's self imposed.

Most schools don't report each Team's academic performance, but the CIS does list each school's Academic All-Canadians which could be used as an estimate as to their respective average.

I don't know if the curriculum is necessarily harder, taught better or is more/less difficult for B.A or a B.BA at any particular school across the country but some schools would have you believe it is.

For UNB, as an example, 65 can get you into most programs, but you still have to perform to achieve AAC status (80%+) - of which 10 players did last year and 14 more had GPAs of 3.0+. As for the relative difficulty of doing that at UNB vs DAL - that's up to the audience to determine on their own.

 

[Hollywood3]

Grades vary widely within schools as well. Some faculties have too high of an enrolment and they "weed out" students. Others have artsy-fartsy guaranteed a B courses.

Anyhow the Bison men's team has 75-80% of the line-up getting academic awards, which usually requires a 3.0 (or B) average.

And within a university the academic standard varies from team to team. Bison football has very few academics. One year the women's basketball team had every player get a 3.0 or higher.

 

[Prov1X]

"Now, I'm not saying that these transfers are all Rhodes Scholars, but by completing their degree in 3-4 years with at least a B average, they are achieving what is expected of "student-athletes." Good for them that they have earned the right to transfer schools after 4 years AND that they choose to pursue a graduate degree rather than turning pro, and good for UNB that they attract these accomplished student-athletes."

Nice of you to defend UNB. Two players that I mentioned did Not have a B average. One was, I believe C+ and another Did Not Graduate from SFX. I have no issue with a student-athlete transferring to another school; I do have an issue with any school that has a "disproportionate" number of such transfers, regardless of the sport. I take issue with guys who come back for a 5th year and take 3 courses just to play. It happens. I disagree with it. I'm not a hater of UNB or anyone else; I'm a dreamer who likes to see a fairly level playing field.

Edit: SMU had a guy about 5 years ago who was "almost" a Rhodes Scholar. Commerce student who now works in New York making 10 figure salary, including decimals.

How do you get into a grad program if you don't graduate first? Seems strange to me. As for the disproportionate number of players, how many local schools offer a graduate program? Now how many of those have had a top level hockey program consistently the past few years? I know for a fact the reason that players have come to UNB as a last chance to win a CIS championship!
And I am sure that there are players on the UNB team that don't have a 4.0 gpa, but they consistently have all academic students. Adrian Robertson is currently pulling a 4.3, and how many have graduated in 3 years.
Not sure why we constantly have to sit here and defend UNB, as I am sure that Acadia, STU, UPEI, STFX and the rest have about the same level of student athletes. Did Anthony Peters graduate?

 

[MiamiHockey]

I don't know if the curriculum is necessarily harder, taught better or is more/less difficult for B.A or a B.BA at any particular school across the country but some schools would have you believe it is.

For UNB, as an example, 65 can get you into most programs, but you still have to perform to achieve AAC status (80%+) - of which 10 players did last year and 14 more had GPAs of 3.0+. As for the relative difficulty of doing that at UNB vs DAL - that's up to the audience to determine on their own.

As a faculty member, I can tell you that the curriculum is the same (in accredited programs, because it's part of the accreditation process) but standards are higher / lower at different universities, and that's driven by the quality of the students in the classroom.

In every class I've taught, both in Canada and the US, the top 10% of students are excellent, and there's always 10% at the bottom who have less desire to perform well in the classroom. But, the middle 80% drive the grade averages. A faculty member can't give everybody A's, but they also can't have the same expectations at UNB or Brock than they could at RMC or Waterloo, because the students in the class wouldn't be able to achieve those standards.

So, an 80% average is easier to achieve at Brock than it is at RMC because the competition is lower.

This is really noted in applications for graduate school, where a student's GPA is considered in concert with the undergraduate school / program they attended.

I specifically recall that, when I applied to do my MBA many years ago, the Business School at the U of A had a matrix that estimated an equivalent grade depending on the school it came from. I specifically recall this because my average at RMC was equated to an average roughly 10% higher at some other universities (I can't recall which).

 

[AdamMcg83]

Thanks for responding, all. Just curious if other programs tracked this carefully, or publicized it.

 

[AUS Fan]

"How do you get into a grad program if you don't graduate first?" Answer: No idea. But he did.

"...how many local schools offer a graduate program?" Answer: No idea.

"I know for a fact the reason that players have come to UNB as a last chance to win a CIS championship!" Answer: My point exactly. There are there for hockey and Not school in 5th year.

"Did Anthony Peters graduate?" Answer: Yes. Did you proofread your post?

 

[FreddyFoyle]

It is not just the fact that your school has graduate programs, but which programs.

A few years ago I analyzed the undergraduate degree program choices of AUS hockey players. #1 choice: Business Admin or Commerce; #2 Kinesiology or Kinetics or Phys Ed. You could bunch together all of the other programs as choice #3. This generation of student-athletes want to use their education packages to get degree choices that set them up for jobs.

Graduate programs are trickier to measure. SMU has a very popular MBA program, so it is very competitive to get into. Much easier to get into UNB's. StFX does not have an MBA program. UNB has a joint MBA/MScKin in sports management that has become popular with hockey players to work in sports management, and includes a sports internship. Colby Pridham took that program and now works for the Leafs organization.

Several players decided to take Education programs for their fifth year. These programs are getting harder and harder to get into as enrollment is capped.

In the AUS, only Dal and UNB have Law schools. In the last few years a couple of McGill players with local roots (Steve Pearce, Luke Madill) have transferred to UNB and gone to Law school. Several UNB players have played 5 years by continuing onto Law School, as is the case with Taylor MacDougall right now. That's not an option for the other 6 AUS schools.

Dal has the regional medical and dental programs, and some hockey players have transferred to Dal for those programs in their 5th year.

So you have all of these educational career choices, which can be limited in scope when you consider where you can actually get in. And then one of your choices is a perennial national contender? Makes that decision easier.

As for those names of players be bandied about with less than stellar academic marks? I can't comment, because of course that information is strictly confidential. You can't publish a student's GPA in a media release, or at an event, unless he or she has given you permission to do so.

Do some schools (with a team coach pressuring/encouraging) go out of their way to smooth entrance into programs, and accept standard grad school tests like GRE's, GMAT's along with a bundle of undergrad courses that may not be a degree? Maybe.

But unless those previously named players offer to talk about their experience, it is strictly private and confidential, and gossiping about it is just that.

 

[AUS Fan]

Peters gets shutout in 1st ECHL game.

http://echl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=12130

 

[mikeandI]

It is not just the fact that your school has graduate programs, but which programs.

A few years ago I analyzed the undergraduate degree program choices of AUS hockey players. #1 choice: Business Admin or Commerce; #2 Kinesiology or Kinetics or Phys Ed. You could bunch together all of the other programs as choice #3. This generation of student-athletes want to use their education packages to get degree choices that set them up for jobs.

Graduate programs are trickier to measure. SMU has a very popular MBA program, so it is very competitive to get into. Much easier to get into UNB's. StFX does not have an MBA program. UNB has a joint MBA/MScKin in sports management that has become popular with hockey players to work in sports management, and includes a sports internship. Colby Pridham took that program and now works for the Leafs organization.

Several players decided to take Education programs for their fifth year. These programs are getting harder and harder to get into as enrollment is capped.

In the AUS, only Dal and UNB have Law schools. In the last few years a couple of McGill players with local roots (Steve Pearce, Luke Madill) have transferred to UNB and gone to Law school. Several UNB players have played 5 years by continuing onto Law School, as is the case with Taylor MacDougall right now. That's not an option for the other 6 AUS schools.

Dal has the regional medical and dental programs, and some hockey players have transferred to Dal for those programs in their 5th year.

So you have all of these educational career choices, which can be limited in scope when you consider where you can actually get in. And then one of your choices is a perennial national contender? Makes that decision easier.

As for those names of players be bandied about with less than stellar academic marks? I can't comment, because of course that information is strictly confidential. You can't publish a student's GPA in a media release, or at an event, unless he or she has given you permission to do so.

Do some schools (with a team coach pressuring/encouraging) go out of their way to smooth entrance into programs, and accept standard grad school tests like GRE's, GMAT's along with a bundle of undergrad courses that may not be a degree? Maybe.

But unless those previously named players offer to talk about their experience, it is strictly private and confidential, and gossiping about it is just that.

.....i hope that when you and the AUS get together for a beer as he suggests you will in Halifax ......that all your answers wont be this long winded

 

[Rob]

Peters gets shutout in 1st ECHL game.

http://echl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=12130

Good for him. Hope he gets to make the big show one day.

 

[leafhky88]

Tyler Stothers (Laurier) - Brampton Beast ECHL

Laurier captain this season made his debut Monday night.

 

[uncleben]

Reggie Traccitto (UPEI) has signed with Toronto (AHL).

Cool
He looks to have been putting up pretty good numbers

Good luck to him

 

[AUS Fan]

Word on the street has Peters going to Rochester AHL. Unable to confirm.

 

[Mike Jones]

Word on the street has Peters going to Rochester AHL. Unable to confirm.

It's on the AHL transaction page.

Link: http://theahl.com/stats/transactions.php

I'm having a brain fart here - that's the Buffalo farm team right?

 

[AdamMcg83]

It's on the AHL transaction page.

Link: http://theahl.com/stats/transactions.php

I'm having a brain fart here - that's the Buffalo farm team right?

Yes, Buffalo's affiliate. Chance for an April call-up?

 

[leafhky88]

Impressive considering as an overager he was playing Junior B (Listowel) as his last team before going to SMU.

 

[Rob]

Impressive considering as an overager he was playing Junior B (Listowel) as his last team before going to SMU.

According to hockey database he did play 5 seasons in the OHL.

His brother is currently the backup with Washington.

 

[leafhky88]

According to hockey database he did play 5 seasons in the OHL.

His brother is currently the backup with Washington.

He did play that year with Mississauga before being released, but finished the season with Listowel (GOJHL) where he played 12 games and then 19 in the playoffs.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=14372

So technically his last team before SMU was the Listowel Cyclones, but you are right that he played 5 years in the OHL.

 

[AdamMcg83]

He did play that year with Mississauga before being released, but finished the season with Listowel (GOJHL) where he played 12 games and then 19 in the playoffs.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=14372

So technically his last team before SMU was the Listowel Cyclones, but you are right that he played 5 years in the OHL.

If I were to opine, I'd suggest it was probably a thing where Peters knew he was committed to SMU, and wanted to play closer to home for his OA season - Listowel is less than a 45-min drive from his hometown. Teichmann did the same thing when he left the Kitchener Rangers to play Jr A last year.

 

[leafhky88]

If I were to opine, I'd suggest it was probably a thing where Peters knew he was committed to SMU, and wanted to play closer to home for his OA season - Listowel is less than a 45-min drive from his hometown. Teichmann did the same thing when he left the Kitchener Rangers to play Jr A last year.

Mississauga was hosting the Memorial Cup that year.

They traded for Michael D'Orazio and Chris Desousa (both of whom later played in the AUS with SMU and UPEI) both of whom were also overagers, and Mississauga had JP Andrerson in goal anyhow, so Peters was released.

You could be correct though as at that stage, Peters may have chosen to not play for another team.