Chuck Fletcher & Management Discussion Thread

Minnesota · Nov 28, 2015

Lots of threads getting dragged off-topic by Chuck Fletcher discussion, so I figured it warranted a thread.

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Have fun.

Victorious Secret · Nov 28, 2015

Pros: Gives young guys great contracts

Cons: Gives old guys horrible contracts

BigT2002 · Nov 28, 2015

He's been striking out on the trades IMO. Players like Moulson and Stewart not being retained (nor am I saying they should have been) only hurts the team when you're giving up picks.

saywut · Nov 28, 2015

2 underwhelming coaching hires.

Poor professional scouting in making trades/signing free agents off of other NHL rosters and their fits in our line-up.

Poor asset management, mortgaging too much of the future for little impact on the current team.

Poor salary cap management, committing too much money to a small group of players for an extended term has forced his hand with other decisions.

But I guess he got Parise and Suter so he gets a pass. I don't think he's terrible, but he's nothing special. I don't believe he'd still be our GM if he didn't get Parise and Suter, as we would have never made the playoffs, and you don't give a GM almost 10 years to make the playoffs.

Minnesota · Nov 28, 2015

saywut said:
Poor asset management, mortgaging too much of the future for little impact on the current team.

It's pretty easy to argue against this point. We went from a perennial bubble team under Risebrough to a team that makes the 2nd round of playoffs consistently.

Fletcher also elevated our prospect pool. I don't think most people remember when James Sheppard was our top prospect... We had the top rated prospect pool in the league not too long ago. Yes, those prospects have struggled to make the jump, but that doesn't discredit the fact that professional analysts had our prospects ranked extremely high, and most of them projected to be top-notch NHL'ers. Everything after that - development, progression - is a different problem.

WildisLaw · Nov 28, 2015

Don't worry guys, Fletch will massively overpay for yet another washed up veteran scorer at the deadline to put us up over the top. Genius!

Time for another closed door player only meeting. Get your **** together, mild!

Digitalbooya · Nov 28, 2015

Remember when Fletcher first arrived and he treated draft picks like gold? Those were the days. I wish they'd come back.

gphr513 · Nov 28, 2015

The dumping of draft picks has gotten tiring, but you gotta wonder if that's coming from the top. The very top. Wouldn't surprise me if Leipold has been really pushing for some moves in the past few years to win now.

Billy Mays Here* · Nov 28, 2015

If by some miracle we can get rid of a big contract like Pominville I would certainly hope Fletcher doesn't go and blow it all on another big free agent signing.

saywut · Nov 28, 2015

Minnesota said:
It's pretty easy to argue against this point. We went from a perennial bubble team under Risebrough to a team that makes the 2nd round of playoffs consistently.

Fletcher also elevated our prospect pool. I don't think most people remember when James Sheppard was our top prospect... We had the top rated prospect pool in the league not too long ago. Yes, those prospects have struggled to make the jump, but that doesn't discredit the fact that professional analysts had our prospects ranked extremely high, and most of them projected to be top-notch NHL'ers. Everything after that - development, progression - is a different problem.

We have like the worst prospect pool in the league right now.

We traded 3 2nd round picks and a 3rd for healthy scratches in the playoffs the last 2 years(Moulson/Stewart/Bergenheim).

Digitalbooya said:
Remember when Fletcher first arrived and he treated draft picks like gold? Those were the days. I wish they'd come back.

When was this? He traded his first 1st round pick and our best d-man for a guy he had to buy out barely a year after.

gphr513 said:
The dumping of draft picks has gotten tiring, but you gotta wonder if that's coming from the top. The very top. Wouldn't surprise me if Leipold has been really pushing for some moves in the past few years to win now.

I do believe this is the case, but then its the players Fletcher's bringing in that are the problem. They've been horrible fits.

Minnesota · Nov 28, 2015

saywut said:
We have like the worst prospect pool in the league right now.

Circa 2012 - Linky.

Wild had the best prospect pool in the league.

HollaHaula · Nov 28, 2015

To get away from complaining about Fletcher's past moves, where do we go from here? In my opinion, our blue line depth is very suspect. The young guys have great potential, but that's all it is right now. Potential. Acquiring a depth defenseman to shelter Dumba and letting Brodin play his full game would greatly improve our defense. I also don't think it would be as expensive as compared to the 1st line center proposals. (These last few sentences were probably off-topic.)

How long will our Cup window stay open? I think it is, at most, one more season as our core gets 1 year older and are bound to slow down. This season is probably our best shot, actually. Also, there is no hope in Iowa for replacing all of our core over the next few years. Do we go all in now and just fall hard if we don't succeed this year or the next? Or do we just keep going in circles with early playoff exits?

I want this team to be going in a direction and not standing in place. Regardless of which direction, either probably helps us.

Minnesota · Nov 28, 2015

HollaHaula said:
To get away from complaining about Fletcher's past moves, where do we go from here?

Great mentality. A couple areas that concern me:

Scouting - Doesn't seem to be getting things done lately
Goaltending coach? Don't know details on this, but I think Dubnyk is working with his old goaltending coach, and he doesn't seem as strong between the pipes. Also, our goaltending pipeline is extremely weak. It would be nice to develop some talent rather than sign/trade.
PP Coach (I'd love to see Oates hired. Bruno sucks.)
Assistant coach? Don't know much about this, but given Sydor's personal issues, it might be smart to look elsewhere once his contract expires
AHL staff - Iowa needs a complete rehaul

Menzinger · Nov 28, 2015

From an outsiders POV who watches a lot of the Wild games I'd say both coaching and management have been at least above average.

Coaching is definitely not an issue - and Flether seems decent at drafting, and although some of the free agents have under performed none are on franchise crippling contracts (like say how the Leafs screwed up the Clarkson deal).

The Wild have been a constant playoff team who happen to have the poor luck of facing off against the Hawks at some point every year in the postseason - I doubt other management teams could do much better.

123TripleDoge · Nov 28, 2015

I wish we woulda never signed Parise and Suter, that way we coulda continued the trend of not being good enough and not being bad enough. JK.

Plus, aren't we one of only a select couple teams to make it to the second round a couple years in a row or something similar?

He's given us enough of a core to make consistent runs. Without inheriting superstar forwards, or a team that can actually bottom out for several years to draft potential superstars, this is what most teams hope for. Many teams would kill for what we have.

Going after stewart and moulson were calculated risks. I'm glad we didn't just stand pat. If we had reached say the conference finals, everyone woulda praised him. You can't just look back simply and say "trade made for guy who left, no cup, fail move". It's a calculated risk based on the window on our current team. If this core never wins the cup, wouldn't you look back and say man, I wish we woulda thrown a few more draft picks to really load up and make a run when our stars were in their prime".

And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing, to trade, ALL the picks, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR STANLEY CUP

DANOZ28 · Nov 28, 2015

if this team fletch put together cant get it done this season then changes have to be made. i dont think yeo is bad but he never seems to be able to stop the bleeding. i believe this team needs a #1 C and i dont see granlund stepping up. we have 2 #2C. the same D that was very good last year cant get it done this year, im perplexed. did sydor make that big of a diff behind the bench? doobs may never again be the stud he was last season. so where does that leave us? fighting for our lives to make the 8th playoff spot not a good place to be. i really have no clue who would improve our D we could trade for.

thestonedkoala · Nov 28, 2015

I think the fan base needs to stop comparing Risebrough with Fletcher. It's been over 6 years and any and all of Risebrough's past mistakes could have been rectify by now. This is by and large Fletcher's team and organization now and we can't keep comparing him with Risebrough.

Risebrough wasn't a terrible GM, but he wasn't particularly good either. He couldn't adapt to the new NHL and that's what did him in. Fletcher isn't a terrible GM either, but he's been handcuffed by baffling decisions and just poor foresight. I don't think he's a top 10 GM but I also don't think he's a bottom 10 GM. He's done okay, but he didn't wait long enough with the retooling.

The narrative really changed the season we got Zach Parise and Ryan Suter. Before the season started, most people predicted Minnesota would be a bubble team, but Parise and Suter wasn't going to push Minnesota into the playoffs (plus it was a shortened season). The media urged fans to be patient as this was a monumental step for Minnesota and their long term goal of becoming a perennial playoff team. And they had, but it came at a big cost to their future. And I think it forced them to rush prospects they didn't need to rush.

Ultimately, Fletcher's biggest issues are the following:

* Not enough depth anywhere. We had a small amount of depth back in 2012 but due to poor development, big trades and letting free agents walk, the depth has been significantly weakened. It doesn't help Minnesota won't have 2nd round picks for a while.

* Letting free agents walk. Because of depth problems, Minnesota can't afford to trade players that will walk at the end of the season. This hurts their depth.

* Poor development - Not necessarily players not developing, but very uneven development. Coyle and Granlund have been massive disappointments. Dumba is struggling. Zucker has done well because they took a very steady approach with him. They seem to believe the NHL is the best place to develop players (and fans do too). We don't have the structure or support to develop prospects.

* Disappointing trades. I think the El Nino and the Belanger trades are some of the best trades Minnesota made. Also the Greg Zanon and Khudobin trades weren't bad either. But these trades have been few and far between. Player evaluation has been terrible for this organization.

* Lack of quality forward prospects. We do well with defensive prospects because we are a defensive team. Forward prospects though we generally whiff on. This is a major issue and continues to rear its ugly head each year.

I think that Fletcher needs to reorganize his staff, get fresh blood in and maybe get an adviser or two. I also think the fans need to be patient as they are significantly a part of the issue.

57special · Nov 28, 2015

I'm good with Fletcher. My big issue is with Poms. I saw the beginnings of his drop off in the PO's two years ago against CO and CHI. Looked to me like a guy who was soft and ineffective when the games got more important. I want a GM to see these things before guys like me do, and act. Sam Pollock in MTL was a master in moving players just before their play dropped off, rather than waiting till afterwards.

Yeo drives me crazy with a couple of things, but he's good too. It appears that the team still listens to him.

this providence · Nov 28, 2015

I wouldn't say Fletcher has done a well enough job to the point he's unflappable. He's built a team that's been good enough to be competing at the end of the year. Competition in this division and coaching have held this team back some from the ultimate goal; but it's tough to let that be an excuse. This franchise hasn't been good enough to win it at the end of the day.

I like Fletcher's willingness to make moves for players. Dislike giving assets for 4th liners. Have less of an issue of bringing in bodies for a playoff push, regardless if they were deemed to work out or not.

My biggest issue in talks of replacing him would be the uneasiness of who they'd be bringing on and what type of track record they have, if any, at the position. I don't see how firing Fletcher and the rest of the staff for a rookie GM solves much of anything.

There will come a time where the team takes a downturn a needs to start over. It happens in every sport, for most all teams. If you're going to make a change, that's where it needs to happen. This team isn't at the stage IMO.

Victorious Secret · Nov 28, 2015

57special said:
I'm good with Fletcher. My big issue is with Poms. I saw the beginnings of his drop off in the PO's two years ago against CO and CHI. Looked to me like a guy who was soft and ineffective when the games got more important. I want a GM to see these things before guys like me do, and act. Sam Pollock in MTL was a master in moving players just before their play dropped off, rather than waiting till afterwards.

Yeo drives me crazy with a couple of things, but he's good too. It appears that the team still listens to him.

Poms is a Fletcher problem. He is a person that should never have been traded for. A person we shouldn't have given so many years. Poms is Fletcher. As is Backstrom making 3.5M to sit and watch.

Since May 21, 2009 he has made 37 trades. We've traded these draft picks:

for Setoguchi, Stewart, Leopold, Bergenheim, Dubnyk, Moulson, Bryz, Nino, Coyle, Heatley, Powe, Barker, Latendresse, Kobasew, Brodziak. That's for 'productive' NHLers, specifically the bolded.

In this same time we've given up Burns, Pouliot, Johnsson, Leddy, Belanger, Khudobin, Havlat, Torey Mitchell, Clutterbuck, Larsson, Hackett, Zidlicky. That's for 'productive' NHLers, specifically the bolded.

Sure seems like we're giving up a hell of a lot more than we are getting. We've won three trades in particular, Dubnyk, Brodziak, and Nino.

As for the scouting staff. I've said they should be fired for several years now. They are a bunch of old cronies from horrible employment. Such as, dark years of the Oilers, Panthers, etc. IIRC 11/15 played pro hockey. 9/11 are D-men. 11/15 are canadian. It's no wonder why we don't draft skill and we waste 2nd round picks on Greenway, Lucia.

If he wouldn't have traded for Pominville and Moulson we'd have a solid prospect pool and we may be reaching that next level of contention.

Saga of the Elk · Nov 28, 2015

I don't think there's much question Chuck Fletcher is a good GM. His list of trades is getting longer and more dubious but he started off great (Leddy, Hackett, Haula for Calvin de Haan; Brodziak and Kuemper for Bigos and Roy) and made a few mistakes along the way (Leddy for Barker). Wish he would have held onto guys like Burns, Pouliot and Khudobin, but in the general scheme he hasn't made too many mistakes that can't be explained away.

The scouting staff has made its share of mistakes too (Cuma, Phillips, Bussieres, Bulmer, probably Lucia). I think in all the amateur scouting and drafting has been decent, but the inability to put together a competitive group in Iowa is a mark against the management for sure.

Pro scouting has also not been a strong suit. Outside of Dubnyk, who was surely on a short list of options, they have more or less missed on all the rentals and been pretty underwhelming in free agency. Even Vanek, who looks healthy now, had a very rough first season that was not good value for the dollars - it was predictable if you watched any of his games that prior season or did due diligence about his gambling issues.

The Pominville trade I've complained about enough: wrong timing and too high a price for the player. Not sure if Karabacek or Zadorov turn into stars or anything but if I were a Wild scout I would have been very frustrated at losing those opportunities.

The team still has issues, and I think impatience in the Pominville trade has been a big cause of them. But on the whole, I don't think there are many people who could have done a better job with the cards Fletcher was dealt, and he certainly deserves more time.

thestonedkoala · Nov 28, 2015

Peter Prohaska said:
The team still has issues, and I think impatience in the Pominville trade has been a big cause of them.

The impatience is a huge issue with this team. Impatient with this prospects, with their team.

grN1g · Nov 28, 2015

There is absolutely no question Fletcher is getting heat from the owner to always be icing a team good enough to sell for the year, Its why he made some horrid trades the first few years he got here. To leave the stuff out of the equation is ignorant imo.

TSK is right, you cannot compare him to DR anymore. GMCF's time here has been long enough to recover from DR's mistakes however, this is his first ever GM gig and id say hes done a pretty good job turning this team around quickly while still icing a competitive team almost ever year hes been here with our owner clamoring for success and profit with obviously little understanding of what that takes long term.

Overall id give him a C+ with chance to improve from his mistakes and continues to gain more freedom from our owner, and again his own mistakes.

Minnesota · Nov 29, 2015

At the time, the Pominville trade and even re-signing were praised. I think it's only in hindsight we're seeing them as mistakes. Hardly anyone could have predicted Pominville's sharp decline.

Saga of the Elk · Nov 29, 2015

Minnesota said:
At the time, the Pominville trade and even re-signing were praised. I think it's only in hindsight we're seeing them as mistakes. Hardly anyone could have predicted Pominville's sharp decline.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/92197/minnesota-wild-2013-draft-preview/

It is nearly established that forwards start to decline in their late 20s: http://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

Sure, management and the Minnesota media may have praised the trade/signing, not here. That said, Pominville helped the team make the playoffs and keeping Suter/Parise happy was no minor concern, so it's not all bad. Just a bit of a hasty move that has had some negative repercussions for the present.

Chuck Fletcher & Management Discussion Thread

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