Player Discussion Chris Tierney (C)

[Sensung]

Not sure where you are getting the "inflated stats" from. He was a 40 point player in San Jose playing on the 3rd line and improved those stats in Ottawa getting a few more minutes. He would be a solid 3rd line centre on any good team.

He likely won’t accept 3rd line money.

We have numerous other players and developing prospects capable of playing that role.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

That role can be filled by White.

Give Brown and Norris the top 2C roles.

The Sens are going to be at the bottom of the standing either way. Might as well see what these players, who have already dominated the AHL, can do.

Theres absolutely no reason why they can't do all of those things while still having Tierney. Also, White would get caved in playing that role. You cant have a guy who loses 53% of his faceoffs lining up in the defensive zone 60% of his time at ES and being your top PK C.

White is a winger. If you are really so intent on playing Brown and Norris as your 1&2C - not something I'm against, but not something I would bank on working or being beneficial to them with no backup plan, as you are advocating - that hardly changes Tierneys role at all. He goes to 15 and a half minutes instead of 17 and a quarter. No big deal. And, if they fail in that role, or get injured (they will), you have someone who can actually play with your wingers and not be a black hole.

It's clear to me that you just dont like Tierney, though - either that, or you play NHL20 franchise mode with injuries off.

 

[Sensung]

Theres absolutely no reason why they can't do all of those things while still having Tierney. Also, White would get caved in playing that role. You cant have a guy who loses 53% of his faceoffs lining up in the defensive zone 60% of his time at ES and being your top PK C.

White is a winger. If you are really so intent on playing Brown and Norris as your 1&2C - not something I'm against, but not something I would bank on working or being beneficial to them with no backup plan, as you are advocating - that hardly changes Tierneys role at all. He goes to 15 and a half minutes instead of 17 and a quarter. No big deal. And, if they fail in that role, or get injured (they will), you have someone who can actually play with your wingers and not be a black hole.

It's clear to me that you just dont like Tierney, though - either that, or you play NHL20 franchise mode with injuries off.

White has a long term contract and needs to show his worth. Give him that opportunity.

Tierney has one RFA year left and is unsigned.
He was played in a role that let him put up numbers which he’ll likely never match again.

The Sens should move him and let another team overpay.

 

[DueDiligence]

Thanks for pointing out that he is underproducing for the ice time he is being gifted.

Do you think his productivity has any relation to the team he is playing for????

 

[Sensung]

Do you think his productivity has any relation to the team he is playing for????

Yes, he’s more productive in gross numbers due to the inflated role he has been given, but his lack of talent shows up in his relative performance to others playing similar roles.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Tierney has one RFA year left and is unsigned.
He was played in a role that let him put up numbers which he’ll likely never match again.

The Sens should move him and let another team overpay.

Lol, no he wasn't. Which has been pointed out to you multiple times. He has some of the least favourable deployment on the team, barely plays PP, and has literally done this 3 years in a row, across 2 teams, one of which was a 100 point team.

No one is saying we should overpay for Tierney. No one is saying we should commit to him long term. There are plenty of solid arguments for why we shouldn't do those things. You are not making those arguments - you're just speculating wildly and bordering on talking BS.

 

[Sensung]

Lol, no he wasn't. Which has been pointed out to you multiple times. He has some of the least favourable deployment on the team, barely plays PP, and has literally done this 3 years in a row, across 2 teams, one of which was a 100 point team.

No one is saying we should overpay for Tierney. No one is saying we should commit to him long term. There are plenty of solid arguments for why we shouldn't do those things. You are not making those arguments - you're just speculating wildly and bordering on talking BS.

I have presented facts which you choose to ignore.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I have presented facts which you choose to ignore.

No you haven't lmao. I've presented facts which you choose to ignore. You haven't said a single substantive thing in this exchange - it's really, really boring!

 

[Sensung]

No you haven't lmao. I've presented facts which you choose to ignore. You haven't said a single substantive thing in this exchange - it's really, really boring!

Re-read the thread. I have posted numerous facts which you are choosing to ignore.

Making false claims doesn’t make for an interesting discussion.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Re-read the thread. I have posted numerous facts which you are choosing to ignore.

Making false claims doesn’t make for an interesting discussion.

The only facts you posted were approximations of his SH and PP TOI. If I am missing anything, it would be much appreciated if you pointed me in the right direction. Saying "his stats are inflated because of his role" is not a fact, though, and is actually contradicted by pretty much every fact available.

I do agree, making false claims doesn't make for an interesting discussion, which is why I won't be following up if you don't actually back up what you're stating.

 

[Sensung]

The only facts you posted were approximations of his SH and PP TOI. If I am missing anything, it would be much appreciated if you pointed me in the right direction. Saying "his stats are inflated because of his role" is not a fact, though, and is actually contradicted by pretty much every fact available.

I do agree, making false claims doesn't make for an interesting discussion, which is why I won't be following up if you don't actually back up what you're stating.

Correct.
Tierney 171st in PPG for NHL forwards, 75th amoungst C’s.

.52 ppg is not solid numbers for a top 6 player, but certainly more than he’d put up with less ice time on a real NHL roster.

Tierney was 3rd on the Sens in forward ice time
He had approx 1 min PP time/gm and 2.20PK time per game.

He’s the definition of meh and will never again see at top 2C role with any other franchise.

Let someone else pay him. Give his spot to a prospect that may develop into a true top 6 player.

40th...producing 75th results for C’s

71st for forwards...producing 171st in ppg

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Ok and what part of anything that I said does that address? No one is claiming he’s top 6, no one is saying his minutes can’t be scaled back, no one is saying he has lots of room to grow.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Sensung]

Ok and what part of anything that I said does that address? No one is claiming he’s top 6, no one is saying his minutes can’t be scaled back, no one is saying he has lots of room to grow.

Your posts addressed very little of what I posted. Tierney was 77th in faceoff percentage for C’s and you act like that makes him irreplaceable. The Sens were horrible defensively, so giving White a chance to grow into that role is not going to make a big impact and could prove advantageous in both the short and (more importantly) long-term
Our coach needs his crutches taken away in what promises to be another throw away season.

The time to move Tierney is now.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Ottawa Senators: Should They Move or Keep Chris Tierney?

Chris Tierney has established himself as a solid middle-six option for the Ottawa Senators. After being brought in from the San Jose Sharks as part of the Erik Karlsson trade, Tierney has impressed many fans with his play in all situations. Now, Pierre Dorion must decide if Chris Tierney is to be a part of the new-age Ottawa Senators or another piece sacrificed in the team’s rebuild.

Unlike other key RFAs that the Senators will have to deal with this season, Tierney’s case to be re-signed doesn’t seem to be as much of a slam-dunk. While players like Anthony Duclair and Connor Brown provide specific skill-sets that are unique to the current crop of Ottawa Senators forwards, Tierney finds himself in constant competition with other centres in Ottawa that can play in similar roles. This competition will only increase as prospects graduate to the NHL level in Ottawa, despite the Keswick, Ontario native being an established player.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[BigRig4]

Tierney is fine as a stopgap for a few more years

 

[Sweatred]

... and all this time I thought Chaplik and White were close in GAR.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Your posts addressed very little of what I posted. Tierney was 77th in faceoff percentage for C’s and you act like that makes him irreplaceable. The Sens were horrible defensively, so giving White a chance to grow into that role is not going to make a big impact and could prove advantageous in both the short and (more importantly) long-term
Our coach needs his crutches taken away in what promises to be another throw away season.

The time to move Tierney is now.

Such a myopic way of looking at this stat. How many faceoffs did he take? Where does that rank him league wide? What are his splits on OZ/NZ/DZ? What % against RH vs LH? Where does that rank him, respectively? What about home vs away splits? 5v5/4v5/etc.? You've captured nothing of the intricacy of hockey faceoffs except to paint the whole thing with one extra-wide brush.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes, he’s more productive in gross numbers due to the inflated role he has been given, but his lack of talent shows up in his relative performance to others playing similar roles.

Once again a unique viewpoint that is based on alternate facts.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Such a myopic way of looking at this stat. How many faceoffs did he take? Where does that rank him league wide? What are his splits on OZ/NZ/DZ? What % against RH vs LH? Where does that rank him, respectively? What about home vs away splits? 5v5/4v5/etc.? You've captured nothing of the intricacy of hockey faceoffs except to paint the whole thing with one extra-wide brush.

Also, this all ignores the important factor of who we have internally. If we have 5 guys who have proven they can win faceoffs at 60%, the fact that a guy can win shorthanded and DZone faceoffs at 52% brings negative value. When the team has a bunch of guys who win faceoffs between 40-47%, as is the case, that 52% brings a lot more value.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Who really cares about Tierney either way, he's a stop gap and not a part of the future, just be a smart GM and dont give him term then all will be fine.

He can stay for cheap short term money for another year or so until he's dealt for a pick. Trading Demelo and Tierney was always the way the Karlsson trade was destined to be maximized.

Save the cash for the needle movers and use these stop gaps as currency.

 

[Sweatred]

Theres absolutely no reason why they can't do all of those things while still having Tierney. Also, White would get caved in playing that role. You cant have a guy who loses 53% of his faceoffs lining up in the defensive zone 60% of his time at ES and being your top PK C.

So many want to just move away from Tierney thinking we have suitable replacements.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So many want to just move away from Tierney thinking we have suitable replacements.

Fans are just excited to move on to the players that will be part of the Senators going forward and move on from all these stop gaps like Tierney, Arty, Zaitsev, etc. They might be getting ahead of themselves and there's a little juice for good value left that can be squeezed out of Tierney before he's moved or let walk, but hard to blame fans for wanting to see players in the lineup that will actually be part of the future instead of a bunch of guys nobody will remember as Senators or barely remember at all.

 

[aragorn]

So many want to just move away from Tierney thinking we have suitable replacements.

I think they could sign Tierny for another yr & look to move him at either the draft or the trade deadline which is more likely. He's been a good middle line player but I think both L. Brown & Norris have more potential. Whether they reach that potential is anyone's guess. I also think that White whether you believe it or not signing that contract is probably here for another few yrs. They also have Chlapik & maybe they draft a centre in this 2020 draft, who knows?

Tierny might be better than all of them today but it doesn't mean he will be better even as soon as next season, it remains to be seen. IMO he is another transition piece waiting to be replaced by a potentially better prospect. I think it's inevitable.