News Article: Chris Kunitz is our new LGBTQ ambassador

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I mean.. an off-the-cuff slur in the heat of the moment is something that should be forgiven & forgotten pretty quickly. It wasn't the N word.

Plus until very recently it was very mainstream. Meaning there were plenty of movies where people used that word nonchalantly, for example in The Hangover, "paging Dr. ******".

Meanwhile white people aren't usually portrayed as using the "n" word nonchalantly unless they're in a Tarantino film.

Until recently gay slurs weren't perceived the same way as racial slurs. They were just something else to say in a long line of insults friends would say to one another. I'm not condoning it or saying it was ever okay, just that it's going to take time to change the mindset on such things. Old habits die hard. Unless the official is in fact homosexual, I doubt Shaw consciously thought of what he was saying before he said it. Which is part of the problem but like you said, heat of the moment you do/say stupid things sometimes.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I mean.. an off-the-cuff slur in the heat of the moment is something that should be forgiven & forgotten pretty quickly. It wasn't the N word.

agreed.

 

[TorstenFrings]

I mean.. an off-the-cuff slur in the heat of the moment is something that should be forgiven & forgotten pretty quickly. It wasn't the N word.

And the apology the Hawks PR wrote him was actually decent. None of that usual "I am sorry, if you were stupid enough to be offended, you PC whiners" crap.

The problem with this isn't that Andrew Shaw is a bad person, who can never be forgiven, so much as that it looks like PR move to name him. Which seems a tad disrespectful.

Maybe he really did discover his passion for this cause though. Not getting worked up over it for now.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

Andrew Shaw is on this list? The same Andrew Shaw that was suspended for using gay slurs on the ice? That Andrew Shaw?

What a joke, such a good idea to have ambassador's of the LGBTQ community on every team who aren't LGBTQ.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the NHL taking steps for all inclusion, but IMO this is not the way to do it.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

Andrew Shaw is on this list? The same Andrew Shaw that was suspended for using gay slurs on the ice? That Andrew Shaw?

What a joke, such a good idea to have ambassador's of the LGBTQ community on every team who aren't LGBTQ.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the NHL taking steps for all inclusion, but IMO this is not the way to do it.

If you read the article, it says that they are not ambassadors for LGBTQ, but instead they are the designated player on each team that LGBTQ people can reach out to for support. You can support the LGBTQ community without being a part of it. This is a fantastic move and something really positive in a year that has been anything but.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Even if it was... we've all said that word (and all those words) and it doesn't mean we're all deplorable people and beyond redemption.

You simply apologize for it and move on. Anyone that holds stuff like that over people is simply doing it for their own agenda, especially the bystanders not directly involved.

As for the rest of this, if it helps just one person then it's all worth it.

Uh, yeah, I've only ever used a slur in the clinical sense when kind of forced to. What people come out with in the "heat of the moment" is telling and a ****ing slur isn't something you take lightly. It doesn't mean people are beyond redemption but apologies can easily not mean anything as well. That's the problem. It's not appropriate to have an lgtbq player's option to be someone who got caught using a slur and that should have been considered.

 

[Contender]

As an LGBT hockey fan, this is a nice gesture from the NHL. They've been good allies for a while now, and better than most sports leagues overall about it. This is not an empty gesture to force inclusion. I'm sure Chris Kunitz is a great guy off the ice, and is good for this position. I will not cloud my on ice dislike of him for this. Many feel excluded from the sports world because of people like Andrew Shaw. That is my only criticism of this. If you're not LGBT, you do not get a say in how we feel about the slur. It's truly dispicble to say such a world and is equatable to the "N" word. People have died because the word. It's a word filled with hatred. Saying it in the heat of the moment is truly telling of the person. It's not that you cannot be redeemed, but you have to earn that redemption. He is not an ally until he has earned it. Including Andrew Shaw in this is a way to make people feel unsafe, not included.

 

[Shockmaster]

Or maybe he doesn't really hate gay people and is making up for a heat of the moment mistake?

That's probably true, but there's going to be sentiment that having Shaw as an ambassador is nothing more than a PR attempt.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

As an LGBT hockey fan, this is a nice gesture from the NHL. They've been good allies for a while now, and better than most sports leagues overall about it. This is not an empty gesture to force inclusion. I'm sure Chris Kunitz is a great guy off the ice, and is good for this position. I will not cloud my on ice dislike of him for this. Many feel excluded from the sports world because of people like Andrew Shaw. That is my only criticism of this. If you're not LGBT, you do not get a say in how we feel about the slur. It's truly dispicble to say such a world and is equatable to the "N" word. People have died because the word. It's a word filled with hatred. Saying it in the heat of the moment is truly telling of the person. It's not that you cannot be redeemed, but you have to earn that redemption. He is not an ally until he has earned it. Including Andrew Shaw in this is a way to make people feel unsafe, not included.

These are true but...

nobody is arguing the first one and using the word doesnt necessarily mean your projecting the second.

I think the vast majority of people here have used the word. Whether its calling one of you friends a F** because their acting in a way which is considered unmanly, or you call someone a c***s***** because your pissed off at the same way m*****f***** or a**h*** would be used generally.

I would happen to guess that most of the time homosexuality isnt even a consideration most of the time any of the related slurs are used.

That doesnt make it acceptable now a days that we as a society are more aware of all of this, but the reality is, is that it was an exceptable way for two guys to **** on each other for a long time and as such will take time to eradicate from our lexicon.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't know Andrew Shaw and I agree that type of slur is extremely inappropriate, but I think many people still need educated on the meaning or impact of those words. That isn't to excuse what he said, but it's possible that he learned a lot from it and now wants to be an advocate. Or at least, that's my hope.

 

[Jacob]

As an LGBT hockey fan, this is a nice gesture from the NHL. They've been good allies for a while now, and better than most sports leagues overall about it. This is not an empty gesture to force inclusion. I'm sure Chris Kunitz is a great guy off the ice, and is good for this position. I will not cloud my on ice dislike of him for this. Many feel excluded from the sports world because of people like Andrew Shaw. That is my only criticism of this. If you're not LGBT, you do not get a say in how we feel about the slur. It's truly dispicble to say such a world and is equatable to the "N" word. People have died because the word. It's a word filled with hatred. Saying it in the heat of the moment is truly telling of the person. It's not that you cannot be redeemed, but you have to earn that redemption. He is not an ally until he has earned it. Including Andrew Shaw in this is a way to make people feel unsafe, not included.

I disagree that it's equatable to the N word.

I also feel like Shaw is getting harsher treatment for a word than other players have done for actions.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I disagree that it's equatable to the N word.

I also feel like Shaw is getting harsher treatment for a word than other players have done for actions.

nobody here is spelling out what Shaw said either...

edit: you ninja edited me.

 

[Jacob]

I edited.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I edited.

you did. I think its a word that wasn't taken very seriously by most people until recently. As for Shaw using in the heat of the moment, I do agree it doesn't make him awful. Its a word he probably used and heard people use all the time growing up. I bet I never went through a day of middle school without someone calling someone a gay slur, or simply using gay as an insult on its own. Did everyone in my middle school hate gay people? No, of course not. So Shaw likely had a similar experience with the word growing up. In the heat of the moment, he just instinctively threw out a word he used in that way before. Should he have? No. Does it mean he dislikes gay people? No.

But I think its a word that SHOULD be on the level of the N word. Just a word that you shouldn't really use. Its just farther behind in terms of awareness to the issue. It was recently a word regularly used in a really insensitive way without (imo) any real intentional malice, just ignorance. From my experience teaching, its way less common now than it was 15 years ago.

 

[metalan2]

Absurd.

 

[EightyOne]

Absurd.

Thanks for contributing.




Hating on someone's speech? No no. Use it as an opportunity to TEACH, not harbor resentment.

If Shaw was confronted AND he said it again and again that's one thing.

You have to take into account MANY pro sports players are stunted socially as idiotic teenagers. Only a few are mature and understand actions beyond, I do good, I make win, as a result of pursuing athletics rather than education.

It's why so many organizations are popping up to help ex players transition to the real world. Why they're encouraged to seek education during their careers. They are very sheltered in a world that is about killing..winning..., not compassion for others.

It's not an excuse. But it's a frame of reference. I'm SURE Shaw has the capability to realize he was very wrong. And THAT, is very right.

 

[wgknestrick]

Crosby would've been way too obvious of a choice

 

[Allie Kitsune]

That's.....random.

 

[PensPlz]

Uh, yeah, I've only ever used a slur in the clinical sense when kind of forced to. What people come out with in the "heat of the moment" is telling and a ****ing slur isn't something you take lightly. It doesn't mean people are beyond redemption but apologies can easily not mean anything as well. That's the problem. It's not appropriate to have an lgtbq player's option to be someone who got caught using a slur and that should have been considered.

Kudos to your impulse control, especially when you were very young (like Shaw is/was) - but you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone in any sort of leadership across this country (left or right) that hasn't been "caught" doing or saying something that is offensive to someone. Should they just then be disqualified from the start and not be considered, regardless of good ideas?

IMO, people that use these slurs in the "heat of the moment" do so because they actually do understand how hurtful they are, and because they know how hurtful they are, that's where their brain goes to when they are that irate. Typically they don't say it out of hatred for the group of people the slur is against, they are saying it because their brain is searching for the worst possible word to express how they feel - and we've ingrained as a society that those slurs are the worst of the worst. By no means is it excusable, but to lump lapses of good judgement due to anger together with actual unapologetic bigoted hatred is unfair.

So in a world were everyone has a video recorder in their pockets, and an endless amount of platforms, if we start discrediting and persecuting people based on those people getting "caught" saying/doing something offensive or illegal or not "normal" to society (regardless of apologies), then we're in a lot of trouble. A very slippery slope that I don't want to go down.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Kudos to your impulse control, especially when you were very young (like Shaw is/was) - but you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone in any sort of leadership across this country (left or right) that hasn't been "caught" doing or saying something that is offensive to someone. Should they just then be disqualified from the start and not be considered, regardless of good ideas?

IMO, people that use these slurs in the "heat of the moment" do so because they actually do understand how hurtful they are, and because they know how hurtful they are, that's where their brain goes to when they are that irate. Typically they don't say it out of hatred for the group of people the slur is against, they are saying it because their brain is searching for the worst possible word to express how they feel - and we've ingrained as a society that those slurs are the worst of the worst. By no means is it excusable, but to lump lapses of good judgement due to anger together with actual unapologetic bigoted hatred is unfair.

So in a world were everyone has a video recorder in their pockets, and an endless amount of platforms, if we start discrediting and persecuting people based on those people getting "caught" saying/doing something offensive or illegal or not "normal" to society (regardless of apologies), then we're in a lot of trouble. A very slippery slope that I don't want to go down.

At the same time though you are already asking a group of people, that is constantly the butt of jokes and insults, to every day, in every instance be the bigger person already. To always forgive and consider the circumstances. So if you are now ostensibly doing something for them, how limiting is it really to just not name the one person that was caught spewing slurs a year ago.

I guess what I am saying is: I do not fundamentally disagree with you about anything in regards to Andrew Shaw or the world, but are Andrew Shaw's feelings really the most important thing to consider when you are reaching out the LGBTQ community. It's at best a little tone-deaf.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The thing with casually tossing around hateful words that insult those in the LGTBQ community, is that obviously the words are hurtful, but you never quite know if a friend or family member is gay, bisexual, etc.

Case in point, we found out over the summer my cousin's daughter is gay, but my aunt only told a few members of the family, including my wife and me.

At Thanksgiving, my uncle (that had no clue about my cousin) was going on a rant about gay people and same sex marriages in relation to the political debates a couple of weeks earlier. He then used a slur and my cousin blurted out to my uncle that she was gay and had no right to judge her...

The look on his ashen face was quite indescribable.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Kudos to your impulse control, especially when you were very young (like Shaw is/was) - but you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone in any sort of leadership across this country (left or right) that hasn't been "caught" doing or saying something that is offensive to someone. Should they just then be disqualified from the start and not be considered, regardless of good ideas?

IMO, people that use these slurs in the "heat of the moment" do so because they actually do understand how hurtful they are, and because they know how hurtful they are, that's where their brain goes to when they are that irate. Typically they don't say it out of hatred for the group of people the slur is against, they are saying it because their brain is searching for the worst possible word to express how they feel - and we've ingrained as a society that those slurs are the worst of the worst. By no means is it excusable, but to lump lapses of good judgement due to anger together with actual unapologetic bigoted hatred is unfair.

So in a world were everyone has a video recorder in their pockets, and an endless amount of platforms, if we start discrediting and persecuting people based on those people getting "caught" saying/doing something offensive or illegal or not "normal" to society (regardless of apologies), then we're in a lot of trouble. A very slippery slope that I don't want to go down.

It's not impulse control, it's not an impulse that I have, so don't act like everyone has that urge or goes to that place naturally. Shaw also wasn't very young, he was, what, in his mid-twenties? That's well into adulthood. Like I used the R word as a kid and then the culture changed and I realized how awful that was and I stopped. Long before my mid-twenties and it's not an impulse I have now. I said stupid **** as a kid, everyone did, but not the massive ****ing slurs and I grew the **** up. Shaw was an adult when he said that and it was less than a year ago. A slur is more than "offensive to someone" and there's no nuance to that.

Yeah, that in itself is ****ed up. Why is that where some people go and why is it so important for an excuse? It's using a slur because you're angry and those words carry a lot of weight. It's a sign of something deeper going on.

Do you think it's appropriate for Shaw to be the ambassador for this? It's not that he can't change, it's is it appropriate for him to be the one ambassador on a team? Is someone who got nailed for using a slur the right choice for a lgbtq teammate to be told to go to? Because that's taking a big chance that Shaw isn't just doing this to clean up his image or that his change is "don't use the slur and it's good."

 

[PensPlz]

At the same time though you are already asking a group of people, that is constantly the butt of jokes and insults, to every day, in every instance be the bigger person already. To always forgive and consider the circumstances. So if you are now ostensibly doing something for them, how limiting is it really to just not name the one person that was caught spewing slurs a year ago.

I guess what I am saying is: I do not fundamentally disagree with you about anything in regards to Andrew Shaw or the world, but are Andrew Shaw's feelings really the most important thing to consider when you are reaching out the LGBTQ community. It's at best a little tone-deaf.

Of course Shaw's feelings are not the main consideration here. But you can't deny that sometimes our overreactions to incidents can cause the bully to become bullied ((often times maybe far worse, and on a larger scale (due to our social media) than anything he was originally doing)). It can't be open season on someone when they say something offensive. I fear that with such grand reactions to these incidents, it will only empower these slurs and continue to bring their meanings to future generations to be hurt by - as there will always be someone that will say them. It's unrealistic to think otherwise.

I guess where I'm coming from is that it's great to hear stories about stuff like juvenile delinquents growing up becoming police officers, ex-gang members becoming integral parts of society, Andrew Shaw becoming an ambassador to the LGBTQ folks... just shows that no matter what we can call move on together, stronger. And that's what we need more of, not the condemning.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Of course Shaw's feelings are not the main consideration here. But you can't deny that sometimes our overreactions to incidents can cause the bully to become bullied ((often times maybe far worse, and on a larger scale (due to our social media) than anything he was originally doing)). It can't be open season on someone when they say something offensive. I fear that with such grand reactions to these incidents, it will only empower these slurs and continue to bring their meanings to future generations to be hurt by - as there will always be someone that will say them. It's unrealistic to think otherwise.

I guess where I'm coming from is that it's great to hear stories about stuff like juvenile delinquents growing up becoming police officers, ex-gang members becoming integral parts of society, Andrew Shaw becoming an ambassador to the LGBTQ folks... just shows that no matter what we can call move on together, stronger. And that's what we need more of, not the condemning.

I (in very general terms) agree that we sometimes ruthlessly pile on people for unfortunate tweets and it can have out of proportion repercussions. Did this happen to Andrew Shaw? I don't think so. Most certainly not the "was bullied far worse than he ever bullied" thing. He read out aloud a common sense apology and was suspended for one game. Booohooo.

As for him being the ambassador here, I don't really have a dog in that hunt. It is hard to tell whether this is a case of his team mates asking him to take on this responsibility, because they truly saw him reforming and trying to make a difference (which is the kind of redemption arc you suggest), or one of PR seizing the opportunity to manufacture a redemption story. It would not have hurt them to at least consider that it might very much look like option B, is all I am saying.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's nice of him. I know we rag on the guy but he's a good dude and I think he calls it quits after this year and moves into a pens role of some sort.

Just don't stay another year and become the new Adams.