Waived: Chris Higgins (Update: Clears)

[StrictlyCommercial]

Higgins will be 34 that June. Puh-leeze

They must call you stretch armstrong with a reach like that.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

They must call you stretch armstrong with a reach like that.

Season ends in April, you're right 6 weeks is a stretch.

Nothing like the 4 years you guys are pulling in age gap between the two signings


Hashtag hflogic

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Hashtag hflogic

You just lost all credibility with me after that.

 

[opendoor]

Higgins will be 34 that June. Puh-leeze

The point is more that Sutter's contract extends well past the age Higgins was when he signed his current deal. By nearly 2.5 years to be precise. And at nearly twice the price with a retroactive NTC.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

You compare signing a 30 year old winger to a 26 year old Center and present this as facts?

Yeah, take it how you want. Those are the facts. That being said,

Center also carries a premium compared to wing. Not sure if it can be quantified, but it will account for at least some of the difference in cap%.

I also expect when Sutters contract is done, he will have been a more important part of the team than Higgins was. Higgins was a valuable support piece, but i expect Sutter to take on a bigger role be8ng a key matchup centerman and pker. Obviously still tbd though.

I understand centers carry a premium (IMO centers are the most important players in hockey). Again, though, I'd rather spend that cap on a center worth having. There is nothing to suggest Brandon Sutter is or will be an elite 3rd line center or a good 2nd line center other than Benning saying that. He's just always been a good 3rd line center. That stats determine that, not me.

Sure he has potential. He has lots of excellent tools that can make him an elite 3rd liner or a good 2nd liner, there is no doubting that in my mind from what I've seen in him over the Pens years and his short Canucks career. He may well be worth his contract, IF he can play to that potential. Again, he can be a very good piece, albeit not foundational if one day he puts all those tools in his toolbox. But the guy isn't exactly Jake Virtanen fresh. He's a vet of 6.5 years now.

It comes down to this, should you pay a player for what they could be or what they have been? And it varies. For a green player, no more than 3 years in the league...I would, hesitantly. But for a player like Sutter who has played in pretty much every scenario you could imagine? I would not. His last AAV, which I believe was $3.3 million/year I find totally acceptable for what Sutter has brought to the table....$4.375M/yr for 5 years? He could very well be the team's next David Booth.

 

[me2]

I don't get it. First you say no one could see the fall in Higgins play coming this season as though it came out of the blue (while a check of past posts shows that isn't true - people did want him gone at the end of last season) and then you say Higgins had no value by the end of last season.

Well, this is a contradiction b/c if you could see Higgins had no value by the off season then you should anticipate he would decline this season. If he had already, in your stated opinion,reached the point of no value why you would expect anything more than a poor season out of him.

You also agree what they tried to move in the off season. So in this Benning, using your argument, was doing the right thing since Higgins had lost much value.

You then suggest that he should have been moved during the season last year. But this contradicts others, like Bleach Clean and yourself, who say that Higgins played well last year. If he was playing well then how can you state you see him having no value in the off-season?? And how can you criticize Benning for not moving him when he was, according to your side of the argument, having a good season.

Also you say Benning figured out too late that Higgins should be moved. Yet you admit he tried to trade him last summer.

I would agree that Higgins should have shipped out along with others at the deadline. But this would have been difficult b/c many fans would have turned on Benning for abandoning the season when they had chance to make the playoffs. If Benning had moved out players like Higgins there would have been a backlash and I think the same people who are getting on Benning now would have deeply criticized that. That puts him in a no win situation.


You also say that Benning moved him only after Higgins had lost value. But if you accept as you do, that he tried to move him in the off season, then he did try to move him before as you put "it was too late". Seems to me that if you thought he had lost vaue by the off season and Benning thought the same then you were thinking alike.

And perhaps more to the point, what would you have done if there were no takers for Higgins in the off season He had a contract that had to be honored so he wasn't just going to go away. Giving him a try and hoping he would be ok seems again the most reasonable thing to do in the circumstances. Are you saying that he should just have benched or waived Higgins as soon as he was ready to play? How would have that made Higgins any more valuable or tradeable. You had to at least give Higgins a try.

And you say Benning would have got praise had he moved out as soon as he got here. But at time you and others thought Higgins was on a good contract. Many said that if you want to look back. So how can you now argue that Benning should have immediately traded him in the summer of 2014. And I don't think at that time Higgins had in any substantial way demonstrated that he couldn't be a good regular season player. It would have left a hole in the lineup and it was unlikely Higgins would fetch back much more than he, himself, was worth.

Moreover, if you are of the party that says Higgins played well last year then it sounds like it would have been a mistake to have moved Higgins out in the summer before the season. If you posted somewhere at the time of Benning's takeover that Higgins should have been immediately moved i'd like to see it. Seems to me that most thought he was a valuable player under a good contract. Asking Benning to realize a couple of season later that it might not be a good contract seems to straining to find a way of criticizing Benning.

Moreover, you make a big point of saying Higgins was not a liability when Benning inherited him. But now you seem to be suggesting that Benning would have been wise and praise worthy had he traded Higgins in the summer of 2014 when Benning arrived. So what is it? Was Higgins a good player and not anything like a liability and thus certainly not a player to be traded or was he someone that Benning should have had the insight to trade immediately. I think you have to admit this a confusing argument on your part.

Overall, you have seemed to suggest that Higgins was a good player that suddenly went down hill. This is contradicted by your statement that you recognized he had no value by the end of last season . Moreover it contradicts the idea that somehow Benning should have seen Higgins the summer before as someone to move. If he suddenly and very unexpectly went bad sometime this year how was Canuck management suppose to see that coming in the summer of 2014.

There's a lot to criticize Benning for but when we spin and strain things to this in every case, it makes all criticisms of Benning weaker.

TLDR
Benning liked Higgins
Benning liked Higgins contract
Benning kept Higgins and his contact
Benning got it wrong so it is all Gillis' fault

 

[Cupless44]

Personally I want to give Sutter a longer look in Vancouver. I think he played alright before he was injured. I don't think anyone can argue he hasn't been missed down the middle especially with Horvat struggling for much of the season and now an NHL worst -22.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

NHL worst -22.

Again, you wanna look at two-way play, start with other stats before going to +/-.

+/- should be used as secondary supporting arguments only. Not primary.

 

[Huggy]

Thank god he's gone, it's almost like the team is improving by subtraction

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Thank god he's gone, it's almost like the team is improving by subtraction

You could almost say the difference since he left has been light and day.

 

[alternate]

He was signed to a big extension before putting on a Vancouver jersey to see his contribution level to the team. Now obviously getting injured sucks for him and can't be predicted, however, while a decent player he isn't the type of player you rush to extend in the first place. Certainly not for 6 years and with a NMC.

he doesn't have a NMC. Not even close.

No wonder you're so irate over everything, you don't have a full grasp of the facts.

The point is more that Sutter's contract extends well past the age Higgins was when he signed his current deal. By nearly 2.5 years to be precise. And at nearly twice the price with a retroactive NTC.

Wouldn't when they end be of a lot more importance? Saying Sutters contract ends with him being older than when Higgins contract started isn't overly important is it? Fact is, Sutter is signed through what *should* be his best hockey years.

without getting too indepth with the research (i'm looking at the past 100 contracts signed according to General Manager for some comparables):

Plekanec at 33 signed a 2 year extension with a cap hit of $6m, coming off 5 years @ $5m. Better player, paid better.

Carl Hagelin at 27 signed a 4 year extension @ $4m. Offence the past few years comparable, wing not a C.

Colin Wilson at 26 and a RFA signed 4 years @ $3.975. C with comparable offence.

Again, just from the past 100 signings as per General Fanager. Most aren't comparable. But going from these 3 examples, Sutter's deal isn't out of whack at all.

Like to see some comparables in the $3.3m for a guy going into UFA and the prime years of his career that can provide around 20 goals. Didn't see any on this list, but maybe there's a bunch out there.

 

[Huggy]

You could almost say the difference since he left has been light and day.

I know iam like

wait Chris Higgins and Alex Burrows are no longer are permanent 2nd line wingers for the past millenia.

Replaced with Sven Baertschi and Emerson Etem.

good god iam stoked

 

[Cupless44]

Again, you wanna look at two-way play, start with other stats before going to +/-.

+/- should be used as secondary supporting arguments only. Not primary.

Maybe so but are you going to argue that Horvat hasn't struggled this season?

5 game point streak aside, he went 27 games without a goal before that, has struggled defensively, penalty killing and even on face offs at times.

Losing Sutter has been the biggest loss of all injured players and it isn't close.

 

[Cupless44]

I know iam like

wait Chris Higgins and Alex Burrows are no longer are permanent 2nd line wingers for the past millenia.

Replaced with Sven Baertschi and Emerson Etem.

good god iam stoked

All the arguments about stats and contracts aside...is anyone else just sick of watching the same old declining veterans trotted out with the same ice time, game after game, year after year....even when it has been long clear this team cannot compete in the playoffs?

Just from an entertainment value, I am beyond tired of watching the same old and expecting different results.

The only thing remotely interesting is watching the young players that give us some hope of change. Sedins would be the exception as they still make great plays, but the downside to them is they hold back a proper rebuild and draw it out longer.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Losing Sutter has been the biggest loss of all injured players and it isn't close.

Well it sure as **** ain't Sbisa or Miller.

All the arguments about stats and contracts aside...is anyone else just sick of watching the same old declining veterans trotted out with the same ice time, game after game, year after year....even when it has been long clear this team cannot compete in the playoffs?

Are you referring to Higgins and Burrows, or 18 minute a night Dorsett?

Not even joking, I'm legitimately not sure.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I agree watching Linden Vey instead of Chris Higgins fills me to the brim with hope. Thank Benning we made room for him to play every day.

 

[racerjoe]

Well it sure as **** ain't Sbisa or Miller.



Are you referring to Higgins and Burrows, or 18 minute a night Dorsett?

Not even joking, I'm legitimately not sure.

I would say that is sad that losing our third line center is the biggest loss for this team. For comparable sake last season we lost Richardson for a good part of the season and still made the playoffs.

We lost Manny and still made the cup final.

 

[Cupless44]

Well it sure as **** ain't Sbisa or Miller.



Are you referring to Higgins and Burrows, or 18 minute a night Dorsett?

Not even joking, I'm legitimately not sure.

For sure Higgins and Burrows are two of the poster boys I refer too. But I wont deny adding Dorsett and Prust to that group isn't depressing. All 4 really boring to watch and all 4 hold this team back from moving forward. Have to hope Prust is not resigned.

I don't care where we are as far as contending. All teams have cycles. But this is entertainment. It is time to watch a younger, faster, more physical hockey team in Vancouver.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I would say that is sad that losing our third line center is the biggest loss for this team. For comparable sake last season we lost Richardson for a good part of the season and still made the playoffs.

We lost Manny and still made the cup final.

That's not even the saddest thing, IMO.

We lost our #1 goalie to injury and the team *improved*.

 

[alternate]

​

That's not even the saddest thing, IMO.

We lost our #1 goalie to injury and the team *improved*.

That's been happening around here for years now though.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

For sure Higgins and Burrows are two of the poster boys I refer too. But I wont deny adding Dorsett and Prust to that group isn't depressing. All 4 really boring to watch and all 4 hold this team back from moving forward. Have to hope Prust is not resigned.

I don't care where we are as far as contending. All teams have cycles. But this is entertainment. It is time to watch a younger, faster, more physical hockey team in Vancouver.

No argument on the bolded.

However bad the contracts or how they are deployed, I will say Prust and Dorsett are miles ahead of any 4th line acquisition Gillis ever made outside of Weise.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

​

That's been happening around here for years now though.

So, like...2 years?

 

[alternate]

No argument on the bolded.

However bad the contracts or how they are deployed, I will say Prust and Dorsett are miles ahead of any 4th line acquisition Gillis ever made outside of Weise.

How dare you disrespect the Hordichuck and the Sestito!

 

[Cupless44]

Let's just call a spade a spade. The list of deadwood that needs to be removed is depressingly long.

Higgins
Burrows
Prust
Dorsett i can live with him if he stays on the 4th line with reasonable ice time as he is not a terrible 4th liner
Weber
Sbisa
Bartkowski
Miller
Vey

 

[alternate]

So, like...2 years?

Luongo-->Schneider
Luongo-->Lack
Miller-->Lack
Miller-->Markstrom