Chris Higgins or Kyle Wellwood or Spezza - How is a prospect judged ??

[habfan4]

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE whole thread is about ???...

It's hard to tell - It has morphed from Higgins vs. Wellwood to Higgins or Wellwood and now Higgins or Wellwood or Spezza - How is a prospect judged? So frankly it appears to be a moving target.

The contrast and comparsion with other players in different organizations with different strengths and weaknesses is IMO window dressing (which is why I never entered into that portion of the debate). I have always given Wellwood his due while cautioning that AHL success does not guarantee NHL success - Apparently JF Jr. agrees with me.

 

[mooseOAK*]

You are free to interpret the quote anyway you like, IMO it speaks for itself.

Ferguson wants to groom the kid for the NHL: His is basically telling Wellwood - Your AHL numbers are great and a reason for optimism, but keep working or you could end up as just another footnote in the long list of AHL wunderkinds who fail at the NHL level. To paraphrase - We like what we see, as evidenced by the coaches comments, but don't think your current success means you've made it. (a sentiment many posters have echoed in this thread)

No one has said that Wellwood has "made it" and nothing in his play or the coach's comments should lead one to believe that Wellwodd feels that he has made it.

What has been said and been shown is that he has made the moves to improve his overall game and has shown good progress there. These guys who have good stats in the AHL and end up staying there are the ones who don't do that sort of thing.

 

[habfan4]

Sometimes (many times), nothing more. Sometimes the guy is really good in the AHL but for many reasons, it just doesnt translate (ask John Slaney).

Or Jason Ward. Not much, at least in terms of numbers, separated him and Michael Ryder in the AHL (2002-2003 season). Yet Ryder somehow seems to have brought his nose for the net to the next level, unfortunately Ward has not.

 

[Sammy*]

These guys who have good stats in the AHL and end up staying there are the ones who don't do that sort of thing.

Its not quite that simple. I think you & the Messenger dont "get it" in that lots of guys offensive games just do not translate into an offensive game that will be successful at the NHL level. No matter how much they try to improve other aspects of their game, this lack of their offensive game being compatible at the NHL level precludes them from playing (regularly) in the Show.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Its not quite that simple. I think you & the Messenger dont "get it" in that lots of guys offensive games just do not translate into an offensive game that will be successful at the NHL level. No matter how much they try to improve other aspects of their game, this lack of their offensive game being compatible at the NHL level precludes them from playing (regularly) in the Show.

The question of whether their offensive game translates well to the NHL level applies to every prospect around.

 

[Sammy*]

The question of whether their offensive game translates well to the NHL level applies to every prospect around.

No question about that. However, some people seem to think that producing in an inferior league somehow makes it quite a bit more likely that they will produce at the NHL level. Thats far from the truth. If that were so, a guy like Wellwood would not have been passed over 160X's.

 

[mooseOAK*]

No question about that. However, some people seem to think that producing in an inferior league somehow makes it quite a bit more likely that they will produce at the NHL level. Thats far from the truth. If that were so, a guy like Wellwood would not have been passed over 160X's.

Drafting has never been an exact science, otherwise they could get by with three rounds because all the best future NHLers would be gone by then.

Wellwood produced in the OHL, went against superior competition at the World Juniors and produced there, went to a superior league in the AHL and is producing there also. Therefore I see no reason to say he can't do it in the NHL until he fails to do it.

 

[andora]

No question about that. However, some people seem to think that producing in an inferior league somehow makes it quite a bit more likely that they will produce at the NHL level. Thats far from the truth. If that were so, a guy like Wellwood would not have been passed over 160X's.

for the sake of argument, what else do we have to talk about wellwood. i think that's part of the frustration as well, if you're a player like wellwood, nobody can talk about your future as so many offensive players have busted.. so we can only talk about wellwood when he makes the nhl? and continue to talk about the higgins etc.. when they bust or disappoint?

 

[Sammy*]

Drafting has never been an exact science, otherwise they could get by with three rounds because all the best future NHLers would be gone by then.

Wellwood produced in the OHL, went against superior competition at the World Juniors and produced there, went to a superior league in the AHL and is producing there also. Therefore I see no reason to say he can't do it in the NHL until he fails to do it.

Being a Leaf fan, I take it you must think the same about Ian White.

 

[sunb]

Drafting has never been an exact science, otherwise they could get by with three rounds because all the best future NHLers would be gone by then.

Wellwood produced in the OHL, went against superior competition at the World Juniors and produced there, went to a superior league in the AHL and is producing there also. Therefore I see no reason to say he can't do it in the NHL until he fails to do it.

But Jason Spezza has already proved it in all those arenas and has even proved it in the NHL. By even mentioning Wellwood's name along with Spezza and attempting to dignify the comparison with "stats" and nothing else is plain stupid.

 

[mooseOAK*]

But Jason Spezza has already proved it in all those arenas and has even proved it in the NHL. By even mentioning Wellwood's name along with Spezza and attempting to dignify the comparison with "stats" and nothing else is plain stupid.

I've never brought up Spezza personally but if being as good as him is Wellwood's goal that is fine with me even if he doesn't quite get there.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Being a Leaf fan, I take it you must think the same about Ian White.

Being a Leaf fan who doesn't make judgments on a guy 20 games into his first pro season, I don't have any hopes at this point. But he is doing fairly well, thank you very much.

 

[Mess]

Being a Leaf fan, I take it you must think the same about Ian White.

To me ....Why can't prospect development and potential follow the same system as the court system .. As long as there is reasonable doubt the player should still be considered an prospect...

Once that is gone fine , but you can't possibly sit there and say you are 100 % that any the players discussed can not play in the NHL ..

Let them Fail first and then lets judge them accordingly .. right now your are just the Grinch who stole Christmas on these young players .. IMO ..

 

[Mess]

Wellwood finding his own place in spotlight

Leads Baby Leafs with 26 points

Coach cites much better overall play
KEN CAMPBELL
SPORTS REPORTER

Kyle Wellwood has lived in Jason Spezza's rather enormous shadow for the better part of five years and tomorrow night he'll tackle that beast once again.

When the St. John's Maple Leafs face the Binghamton Senators for a two-game set in a poor man's battle of Ontario at the Air Canada Centre, the Toronto prospect (Wellwood) will find himself once again going against the Toronto product (Spezza) in another attempt to earn the respect of the hockey world.

Wellwood, who leads the Baby Leafs in scoring and has been on a tear the past month, looks forward to the meetings.

Read On: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...970081593064&DPL=IvsNDS/7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes

PS : Ken Campbell should get his own material and stop stealing my Thread and publishing it as his own ..

 

[Mess]

Baby Leafs verses Baby Sens on TSN ..

Wellwood going head to head with Spezza

Drop in and check it out on TSN ....

 

[andora]

another beauty by wellwood. played well, again his skating is suspect but he always seems to be where the play is, had an ok game..

williams looked really good, maybe we should start talking about him

 

[BuppY]

That was a great goal, he is a Highlight real, he made some sick plays in the game, his skating is better than advertised, and doesn't shy away from traffic seems to be on the right track!!!

 

[Sting]

Bad game by the Sens. Spezza played OK, but for the most part the rest of the team was just pretty bad tonight. Lets hope for better Friday.

 

[BuppY]

Bad game by the Sens. Spezza played OK, but for the most part the rest of the team was just pretty bad tonight. Lets hope for better Friday.

It seems like he just doesn't try.

 

[Mess]

another beauty by wellwood. played well, again his skating is suspect but he always seems to be where the play is, had an ok game..

williams looked really good, maybe we should start talking about him

Wouldn't they just love us around here now that we made our case that Welly is a star ..

Good one

How about we prove that Jeremy Williams 20 games 6 goals 4 assist 10 points verses Chris Higgins 21 games 3 goals 6 assist 9 points would make a good comparison ..

 

[ChemiseBleuHonnete]

Wouldn't they just love us around here now that we made our case that Welly is a star ..

Good one

How about we prove that Jeremy Williams 20 games 6 goals 4 assist 10 points verses Chris Higgins 21 games 3 goals 6 assist 9 points would make a good comparison ..

:lol

 

[mooseOAK*]

Not too many responses, seems like the trailer parks aren't wired for cable or something.

 

[Bileur]

Wouldn't they just love us around here now that we made our case that Welly is a star ..

Good one

How about we prove that Jeremy Williams 20 games 6 goals 4 assist 10 points verses Chris Higgins 21 games 3 goals 6 assist 9 points would make a good comparison ..

You never really proved anything you know.
You just kept arguing until everyone else lost interest.

 

[sunb]

Not too many responses, seems like the trailer parks aren't wired for cable or something.

Is that an attempt at an insult? :lol

 

[Leaf Army]

I think the bottom line in this whole argument is that unless you're a first round pick, you're not going to get any respect on this site.

Out of the top 50 prospects, 41 of them were first round picks.

The remaining 9 were all 2nd rounders except for goalies Emery, Miller and Niittymaki.

It seems that if you're picked past the 1st or maybe 2nd round it really doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to get credit on this site. Unless you're a goalie.

The rankings and opinions on this site are based FAR more on draft position and fantasies than what the player actually accomplishes or proves. That much is obvious.

Therefore, a first rounder can do no wrong until he proves he can't play in the NHL. Meanwhile, a fifth rounder can do no right until he proves he can play in the NHL.

Is that right? Of course not. Does it end up in a lot of people looking stupid in certain situations? Yes. But I guess that's just the way it is.