Chris Higgins for Jesse Niinimaki,Tomas Micka

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Ryan O'Byrne, Apr 11, 2005.

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  1. Ryan O'Byrne

    Ryan O'Byrne Registered User

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    I seen that there's a thread about the Parise for Pouliot&Jacques trade and wanted to revisit this trade from three years ago.

    I want to know your opinion's on a another Edmonton trade. The trade was Edmonton's #14 pick for Montreal's # 15 & #245 picks .The #14 ended up being Chris Higgins with the #15 & #245 being Jesse Niinimaki & Tomas Micka. I'm a Montreal fan so I might be a little bias but I think Montreal won this trade. What do you guys & gals think ?


    Thanks for the correction Seachd :yo:
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  2. Habsfan 32

    Habsfan 32 Registered User

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    I think Montreal won this trade for sure. Niinimaki has not played very good in the AHL this season. I know it's his first season in North America but I was expecting more from him. He's still a fine prospect but I think Higgins is ahead of Niinimaki in terms of overall play and potential.
     
  3. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Obviously Higgins is looking better than Niinimaki right now. Just a small correction, though. The Oilers used Montreal's pick to take Tomas Micka. Helminen was selected with the Oilers' own 8th rounder.

    (Micka, by the way, is signed and in the Oilers' system. This year he was bounced around a few teams in the ECHL.)
     
  4. oil slick

    oil slick Registered User

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    Habs won without a doubt. I guess it's possible Niinimaki might amount to something, but I have little faith.
     
  5. Fozz

    Fozz Registered User

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    I never got this trade... Why would Montreal trade to select only one spot higher? Obviously, if Edmonton made the trade, it's because they had no intention of drafting Higgins in the first place. If that's the case, the Habs didn't need to give up an 8th rounder to get the player they wanted.
     
  6. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Edmonton might not have had any intentions of picking Higgins, but they didn't have to let Montreal know that. And, at the same time, Montreal didn't have to let Edmonton know they were interested in Higgins.

    It could have gone something like this:

    MTL: "Hey, EDM, there's a player we're really interested in, and we'd be willing to give up an 8th rounder to get him."
    EDM: "Well, it might be the guy we want, but what the hell?" (EDM knows that MTL is very unlikely to take Niinimaki.)
     
  7. Ryan O'Byrne

    Ryan O'Byrne Registered User

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    Maybe Montreal didn't want to take the chance that Edmonton would trade the pick to someone else who wanted Higgins. That's what I think :D
     
  8. Fozz

    Fozz Registered User

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    Yeah, I guess that's a possibility.
     
  9. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    As far as the trade goes, it was a waste of an extra pick by Montreal. If Edmonton was truly concerned about getting a player they wanted, no matter what they would not have moved down an extra spot in the draft. Montreal, IMO jumped the gun and wasted a pick. You really cannot compare the actual trade because the players would have been picked respectively by the teams they are currently on at the time. Montreal would still have Higgins and Edmonton would still have there guys minus the 8th rounder prospect. All in all, Edmonton won because they still got the guy they wanted, had no intentions on Higgins and got an extra prospect for nothing. Montreal wasted an asset to get a player that would have been there 1 spot later because like I said, if Edmonton was concerned at all for Higgins there is NO WAY they trade down.

    Winner Edmonton.
     
  10. oil slick

    oil slick Registered User

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    That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'll reevaluate.

    Winner of the trade:Edmonton
    Winner at drafting:Montreal
     
  11. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    That is exactly what I was trying to say...just in a lot mroe words and in detail :teach:
     
  12. Freaky Habs Fan

    Freaky Habs Fan Registered User

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    What if Edmonton had two players in their head: Higgins and Niinimaki. Maybe they wanted to draft one of those players but they weren't sure which one to take. It's like the Panthers in the 2003 draft with Horton and Staal...

    Bottom line, the two teams might have won the trade because they both have what they wanted...Anyways, Montreal still have the best player in Higgins :yo:
     
  13. oil slick

    oil slick Registered User

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    From all I've read that was not the case. For whatever reason, Edmonton really wanted Niinimaki.
     
  14. Ryan O'Byrne

    Ryan O'Byrne Registered User

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    The Oilers were smart but if you asked the Canadiens if they think they wasted that 8th round pick I bet there answer would be no and that they would say it was worth it. ;)So at the draft it was win win but now it looks like the Canadiens drafted better .That to me makes it a good trade for the Canadiens
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  15. Arastiroth

    Arastiroth Registered User

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    If that is true, then it was a bad trade for Montreal, but only in hindsight. Montreal may have thought Higgins was clearly the best player left on the board. If so, using an 8th rounder to for an upgraded pick isn't a waste (at the time). I seriously doubt Edmonton or Montreal was letting each other know who they wanted. Why would you do that? It also is more in Montreal's interest if Edmonton had calls interested in their pick.

    The only way it was a waste is if Edmonton told Montreal they wanted Niniimaki and had no one interested in their pick. I have serious doubts about Edmonton being that stupid.

    In everyone's desire to label someone a winner and a loser, they didn't realize that both teams won. They both got what they wanted. Edmonton got the player they wanted and a little something extra. Montreal got they player they wanted, and gave up something little. Higgins is looking better right now, but that doesn't mean Edmonton lost. They weren't going to pick Higgins, anyhow.
     
  16. 417

    417 Registered User

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    And Montreal didin't?

    I really don't see how you see Edmonton won this trade, unless you have some type of time machine, and Higgins became a bust, and Ninimaki became a consistent 40 goal scorer...

    You say Montreal wasted an asset, how is an undrafted pick an asset, well it is if you consider it as a means to move up in the draft, but if Montreal really thought that Higgins would land in their spot and they wouldn't have to worry about Edmonton, they wouldn't of made the trade, they obviously wanted Higgins and maybe got some info that Edmonton might be looking at Higgins, maybe Edmonton didin't think that Higgins would still be on the board at their pick, which prompted Montreal to make the trade...

    As of right now, it's not fair to say who won the trade, but we can definately say that Montreal is winning this trade, Higgins is a top prospect...
     
  17. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Once again, both teams DID NOT tarde players so why are you basing this trade on players? They traded picks and the chances that Edmonton wanted Higgins was very low. So, liek i pointed out, Montreal wasted an asset to get a player they would have gotten in the next pick. Montreal appears to have drafted BETTER with their pick but that has nothing to do with the trade.

    Edmonton got an extra asset from the Habs, even though they didn't want Higgins. Montreal used their pick better (or so it appears).
     
  18. 417

    417 Registered User

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    I see what your saying, makes sense...

    But how do you know that the chances that Edmonton would take Higgins were very low...how do you not know that maybe they had Higgins high on their draft board, and weren't expecting to see him still available, which prompted Montreal to make the trade, I think that scenario is much more likely...

    IMO, when you want a player, go out and get him, losing an 8th rounder isin't what i'd call high risk, but it's definately high reward...
     
  19. Asiaoil

    Asiaoil Vperod Bizona!

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    I see your point but I have a problem considering anything to do with Jessie Niinimaki a win for Edmonton. We swung for the fences in a weak draft and whiffed............badly.

    Still - we did get Deslaurier, Stoll and Greene in the second round so it worked out OK for that draft.
     
  20. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    Whoever won this trade certainly didn't win much either way.
     
  21. KILLger

    KILLger Registered User

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    Ummm, Chris Higgins is a top prospect...
     
  22. Rahan

    Rahan Registered User

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    What a load of crap.
    So, moving up in a draft must always be a waste of assets for the team moving up, since if the other team is willing to move down, it's clear that they won't take your player in the first place. Is that what you're really saying??

    Because if it is, let's just ask the 3-4 teams that will be drafting in front of you if they would be willing to move down, and if they actually are, don't trade to move up, because you're SO sure they're not interested in this particular player.

    If there could be a way to be sure of who the team before you is gonna pick, I could understand your point of "useless trade". But since it doesn't work like that in the real world, sometimes you don't wanna play with fire and you do move up to be sure to get your player.
     
  23. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Once again, to the MANy habs fans..it is not like the Habs moved up many spots..THEY MOVED UP ONE SPOT for a guy Edmonton was NOT going to take. It was a waste to trade another pick. It makes sense to tarde up when you do it for a few spots, not one spot when the team after you has no interest in the guy. Like I said, it appears the Habs drafted better in the first round but wasted as asset for a 1 spot increase, when they did not need to. That is a bad tarde, a wasted asset.
     
  24. Rahan

    Rahan Registered User

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    My point exactly. How can you say they "DIDN'T NEED TO TRADE UP"? And you CANNOT say Edmonton had no intention in drafting Higgins, you have no basis. I could go and say that maybe Edmonton thought the Habs wanted to take Niitimaki(sp?), thought they would still get Higgins at 15, and got screwed? Just maybe..

    The only way to know would be to have a view on an alternate reality where the Habs didn't trade up. Then we could know if it indeed was a wasted asset or not. Unfortunately, we don't.
     
  25. mooseOAK*

    mooseOAK* Guest

    Whatever. I don't think that Hab fans will be thumping their chest that they got a guy like Higgins with a 15th overall pick.
     
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