News Article: Chevy not pressured!

Grind

Stomacheache AllStar
Jan 25, 2012
6,539
127
Manitoba
Heard this exact same phrase last offseason. And I'm pretty sure the offseason before that... I guess I'm just curious when we can turn right and exit this roundabout... ;)

For me it was last offseason, but i did see some decent moves, and agreed with almost everything he did besides the lack of movement on a goalie. My issue is the now. We've been realistically out of a playoff hunt since that 6 game road trip.

At this point i've seen all the "tweaking" i can stomache. It's obvious at that tweaking isn't going to be enough to achieve TNSE goal of being competitive now and in the future. To me, it's been obvious since the start of November.

If chevy doesn't make some serious changes this season/offseason (i'm cognizant of the difficulty in moving big pieces with the cap down on everyone right now) then there's no more excuses.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
49,312
70,904
Winnipeg
Long post alert! I was bored at lunch and thought I would post my thoughts on why it is important to have a strategy and to follow through on it.

A lot of people want to see a big trade, FA signing etc with regards to fixing this team. I can understand the frustration but I just wanted to discuss strategy involved in making decisions. In business even the largest corporations can’t compete across all market segments or across all strategic dimensions (cost leader vs. prod differentiation being one). Corporations have limited resources and competition is just too fierce. Successful corporations design a strategy around very specific market segments and pool their resources from the top down to developing processes and systems to better meet the demands of their clients than competitors.

Professional Sports isn’t really all that different. An organization like the Jets has finite resources and competes against 29 other multimillion dollar entities for talent. I believe that like in business successful organizations will choose how they want to compete and then go about aligning the organizations resources to achieving that mandate.

True North has indicated how it wishes to compete numerous times. They have designed a strategy and have aligned a good portion of the organizations resources to competing on the draft floor and through their development system. Those who say Chevy needs to start acting like a real GM are missing the mark here. He puts on his big boy and goes to war against the other 29 teams at draft and in the designing of procedures and processes geared towards turning our draft picks into impact players which is what his mandate from ownership is. The Jets plan on achieving organizational success by developing a competitive advantage over the other teams with regards to drafting and developing. Does that mean that the Jets should forego trying to acquire talent through trades and FA, absolutely not? The Jets have and will continue to add pieces through trade and FA; it just won’t be the primary talent acquisition avenue that they take. I am sure that if there is a deal that fits with the strategic direction of the team Chevy won’t be afraid to make it.

Moreover developing a high level of proficiency through drafting and development will have a spillover effect into the organizations proficiency on the trade front. Having a highly stocked cupboard of assets makes it easier to trade for talent to fill roster holes.

This strategy isn’t reinventing the wheel, it has been done to great success by a number of organizations.

I would like to draw your attention to two cases as to why adopting a strategy and sticking to it is prudent.

I am going to compare the Toronto Maple Leafs to their provincial rival the Ottawa Senators. Despite not having the near the resources that the Leafs have, the Sens have massively outperformed the Leafs over the last decade and a bit, why?

The reason is that the Senators realized early that they would never be able to compete with the big spending teams in FA so they designed a system geared towards drafting and retaining their talent. They went about aligning the organizations resources to doing that and over the years have developed the required competencies needed to execute that strategy.

The Leafs on the other hand have never shown the patience to see something through to its conclusion. They continually change their mind on what direction they want to go in. They are very much the model that some on here would like Chevy to take. They kept trading prospects to try to prolong an ageing window, they kept overpaying for mediocre Free Agents. They never had the patience to stick with a plan long enough to learn and develop the competencies needed to achieve success in any paradigm in the league. Instead they have tried to do it all and have been stuck in no man’s land because of it.

It is important not to try to do everything at once, you can become good in many areas but its very difficult to achieve mastery in any of them.

I’m not going to say the Jets will ultimately be successful, but by developing a long term strategy that has the full support of the organization they have at least given themselves a legit chance for long term sustainable organizational success. Its more than can be said about other organizations in the league.
 

Hobby Bull

amazon sucks
May 21, 2013
1,215
132
Ya right and I have some beach front property near Churchill to sell you

Odd that years later the only way to defend that move to say it was forced upon you.

It was a bad move a rash move to appease a fan base and screaming media.

The funny thing was they added salary when they moved to Phoenix. T

Gotta say, GmOney's version is the one I remember. FWIW.
 

veganhunter

Mexico City Coyotes!
Feb 15, 2010
2,934
3
Calgary
For all those saying we should be making the playoffs by now, what should Chevy realistically have done to make that happen?
 

theamazingchris

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
1,168
0
Winnipeg
I wouldn't say there's anything egregious with Chevy's moves so far. Drafting is fine, and contracts are mostly ok. Like every year, the deadline/offseason will be a big deal, with 10 contracts expiring, not counting our AHL/ECHL prospects. This team's makeup could easily change completely. I think now is the time. Something significant one way or another is going to happen this offseason, and if I'm wrong, I'll start being concerned with Chevy's plan for this team.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
31,731
40,010
Winnipeg
I have no problems in the job Chevy has done to date. He has drafted very well and resigned his best players. With the cap going down and the meager pickings available with UFA's last summer there was nothing much to do there. Ask Leaf fans how they feel about committing to Clarkson at $5 M+ for 7 seasons.

My guess is Chevy is trying to gauge if the prospects coming in are enough to add to our current core to make us a contender. IMO the answer is looking increasingly no. The young guys are stepping up but the core seems to have flat lined. The next step is likely a trade, and Buff seems most likely, but with everyone tight to the cap it can't happen until the trade deadline but more likely in the off season. IMO the next logical move is Buff for a young player or 2, high end prospect, extra picks or some combination of the above. The end result is a double down on the young guys.

But more likely this will make us worse before they get better.

Of course at the same time he does need to supplement the depth on this team as well. Easy-Peasy.
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
14,657
13,508
Winnipeg
For all those saying we should be making the playoffs by now, what should Chevy realistically have done to make that happen?

I don't think you had to be Nostradamus to recognize the team was going to have a problem at LD, and that the goaltending situation was questionable (Pavs a career .906 or whatever). Chevy addressed this by signing Clitsome to a 3 year / $6 million deal and giving Monty another year. Grade: D.

He did address the Top 6 depth with Frolik (grade: A) and Setoguchi (grade: C). Then again, he couldn't convince Burmi to stick around - but that's more on Burmi than Chevy. So give him a B- on "Forwards".

So maybe a legitimate 1B goalie and more depth at LD and the Jets eke out a few of those 1-goal heartbreakers and they're still in the hunt for the playoffs instead of planning their golf vacations for April...
 

GoJetsGo55

Registered User
Apr 14, 2009
11,265
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Winnipeg, MB
Because that's what will help the franchise, having the GM run around and make panic moves NHL 14 style.

Exactly!

We are in year 3 of a 5 year plan. How many people want to set that back by making a panic trade.

How would you guys like it if he traded Scheifele for Vanek! At least he's doing something!!! Right guys?......right?
 

thejaf7

Registered User
Mar 21, 2010
1,621
2,108
Again with this 5 year plan stuff. What exactly happens at 5 years? Because we are far from a contending team.
 

GoJetsGo55

Registered User
Apr 14, 2009
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Winnipeg, MB
I don't think you had to be Nostradamus to recognize the team was going to have a problem at LD, and that the goaltending situation was questionable (Pavs a career .906 or whatever). Chevy addressed this by signing Clitsome to a 3 year / $6 million deal and giving Monty another year. Grade: D.

He did address the Top 6 depth with Frolik (grade: A) and Setoguchi (grade: C). Then again, he couldn't convince Burmi to stick around - but that's more on Burmi than Chevy. So give him a B- on "Forwards".

So maybe a legitimate 1B goalie and more depth at LD and the Jets eke out a few of those 1-goal heartbreakers and they're still in the hunt for the playoffs instead of planning their golf vacations for April...

Tell me out of the list below, what you would be willing to trade to bring in a suitable filler:

Scheifele
Trouba
Morrisey
Petan
Lowry
Bogosian
2014 1st
2015 1st


The only asset we really have to trade at the moment is Buff. We can't do that until Bogo is back and even then, how long until he's injured again?

There's a whole lot of complaining with zero answers going on in this thread. How can you say the guy is going a bad job when he's been sticking to the plan?
 

GoJetsGo55

Registered User
Apr 14, 2009
11,265
8,649
Winnipeg, MB
Again with this 5 year plan stuff. What exactly happens at 5 years? Because we are far from a contending team.

At year 5, you go with what's best for the team. Year 5 is not a make or break year. If the team continues to mature properly then missing out at year 5 is not game over. You look at the team and, if it's been progressing promisingly, you continue. If it's a failure, then you make the necessary changes.
 

veganhunter

Mexico City Coyotes!
Feb 15, 2010
2,934
3
Calgary
I don't think you had to be Nostradamus to recognize the team was going to have a problem at LD, and that the goaltending situation was questionable (Pavs a career .906 or whatever). Chevy addressed this by signing Clitsome to a 3 year / $6 million deal and giving Monty another year. Grade: D.

He did address the Top 6 depth with Frolik (grade: A) and Setoguchi (grade: C). Then again, he couldn't convince Burmi to stick around - but that's more on Burmi than Chevy. So give him a B- on "Forwards".

So maybe a legitimate 1B goalie and more depth at LD and the Jets eke out a few of those 1-goal heartbreakers and they're still in the hunt for the playoffs instead of planning their golf vacations for April...

I'm aware of the problem but who were the available players that he could have attained to fill these roles?
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,915
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Winnipeg
I'm aware of the problem but who were the available players that he could have attained to fill these roles?

We paid more for Clitsome than Carolina paid for a legit top 4 defenseman in Hainsey. I said it back when the contract was signed Clitsome will be a buyout candidate before that contract was up. I called this and many people attacked me for it. I am so so disappointed I was proven right.

Khudobin signed in Carolina for less than 800K per year. Greiss signed in Phoenix for almost league minimum. These are guys I identified last year as guys that would push Pavelec for starting time. These are guys that could have been had for less than 1.5 million per season. Yet we didn't manage to land anyone to press PAvelec.

Chevy is either not identifying the weaknesses in the lineup or just not addressing them. This is a serious problem. You can check my posting history, these are things I said last year. There was plenty of options out there to solidify the team yet Chevy did not choose to pursue any of them.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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We paid more for Clitsome than Carolina paid for a legit top 4 defenseman in Hainsey. I said it back when the contract was signed Clitsome will be a buyout candidate before that contract was up. I called this and many people attacked me for it. I am so so disappointed I was proven right.

Khudobin signed in Carolina for less than 800K per year. Greiss signed in Phoenix for almost league minimum. These are guys I identified last year as guys that would push Pavelec for starting time. These are guys that could have been had for less than 1.5 million per season. Yet we didn't manage to land anyone to press PAvelec.

Chevy is either not identifying the weaknesses in the lineup or just not addressing them. This is a serious problem. You can check my posting history, these are things I said last year. There was plenty of options out there to solidify the team yet Chevy did not choose to pursue any of them.

How do you know he didn't pursue any of them? And do you think any of those players would get us into the playoffs? In the central division?
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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One of the most interesting things i heard on E Friedman's 1290am interview was his take on last summer. He said The Jets and Chevy had tp prove to this city and this market and to some extent to the whole league that they were capable of signing and retaining talent and that players were willing to commit to Winnipeg long term. That's now been shown to be a non issue. Imagine if one or more of our RFA's decided they didn't want to be here? This city's inferiority complex would have exploded along with the local and national media. Its a process after all In more ways than we know.
An NHL GM job is not as easy as many make it out to be in this forum.
 

jetkarma*

Guest
One of the most interesting things i heard on E Friedman's 1290am interview was his take on last summer. He said The Jets and Chevy had tp prove to this city and this market and to some extent to the whole league that they were capable of signing and retaining talent and that players were willing to commit to Winnipeg long term. That's now been shown to be a non issue. Imagine if one or more of our RFA's decided they didn't want to be here? This city's inferiority complex would have exploded along with the local and national media. Its a process after all In more ways than we know.
An NHL GM job is not as easy as many make it out to be in this forum.

Didn't he , as well as others also mention that the contracts will be viewed very positively very soon?

What were we going to do , not sign some of these players? yeah right ..... we have almost everyone locked up to favourable contracts and they are better assets for that.

If needed , it will be easier to trade any of them with the deals that are in place.
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
14,657
13,508
Winnipeg
How do you know he didn't pursue any of them? And do you think any of those players would get us into the playoffs? In the central division?

The Jets have been close-but-no-cigar on a number of nights this year. Better D and better goaltending and maybe the team is 6 or 8 or 10 points ahead of where they are now and it's not curtains at Christmas for us.

Even 6 more points puts the team at 41 - 4 points out of a tie for 3rd in the division. Say those 6 points came with 1 win each against Colorado, Minnesota and Dallas and they're actually 2 points out of 3rd.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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Well it's debatable whether Hainsey makes us a Better D team and nobody is claiming our problem is the play of Montoya. Would any of those other goalie's have played more than Monty? Probably not. I don't see where the points come from.
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
14,657
13,508
Winnipeg
Tell me out of the list below, what you would be willing to trade to bring in a suitable filler:

Scheifele
Trouba
Morrisey
Petan
Lowry
Bogosian
2014 1st
2015 1st


The only asset we really have to trade at the moment is Buff. We can't do that until Bogo is back and even then, how long until he's injured again?

There's a whole lot of complaining with zero answers going on in this thread. How can you say the guy is going a bad job when he's been sticking to the plan?

Hey, you forgot Comrie and Unicorns on your list of 3-players-in-the-NHL-plus-a-bunch-of-hopes-and-dreams-who-haven't-proven-anything.

It's always the same with Team 5-Year Plan. The cupboards were bare; I don't hear any answers from the whiners; Oh so you want to trade away the future?; Maybe Chevy tried and failed to sign X.

I guess it's easy to sit back and second guess, but here we are, nearly 1000 days into Chevy's reign as GM and the Jets on-ice product is no farther ahead than the team of two seasons ago.
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
14,657
13,508
Winnipeg
Well it's debatable whether Hainsey makes us a Better D team and nobody is claiming our problem is the play of Montoya. Would any of those other goalie's have played more than Monty? Probably not. I don't see where the points come from.

Those who were arguing for guys like Khudobin or Greiss were hoping that these guys were ready to step into a larger role - a 1A/1B type of thing. So imagine Monty having 16 starts and maintaining his pace so far, so he's 10-4-2. If Pavs points percentage stays the same, the Jets are at 39 instead of 35 points.

I don't want to say Hainsey was the answer, but ******* if Clitsome hasn't beclowned himself on a regular basis. Smid was traded to Calgary for very little... Gilbert signed in Florida for less than Clitsome. There were options - doesn't have to be Chara...just eat up some minutes that are being handed to Clitsome and Stuart right now. I guarantee that's worth a couple of points right there.
 

Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,915
5,539
Winnipeg
Long post alert! I was bored at lunch and thought I would post my thoughts on why it is important to have a strategy and to follow through on it.

A lot of people want to see a big trade, FA signing etc with regards to fixing this team. I can understand the frustration but I just wanted to discuss strategy involved in making decisions. In business even the largest corporations can’t compete across all market segments or across all strategic dimensions (cost leader vs. prod differentiation being one). Corporations have limited resources and competition is just too fierce. Successful corporations design a strategy around very specific market segments and pool their resources from the top down to developing processes and systems to better meet the demands of their clients than competitors.

Professional Sports isn’t really all that different. An organization like the Jets has finite resources and competes against 29 other multimillion dollar entities for talent. I believe that like in business successful organizations will choose how they want to compete and then go about aligning the organizations resources to achieving that mandate.

True North has indicated how it wishes to compete numerous times. They have designed a strategy and have aligned a good portion of the organizations resources to competing on the draft floor and through their development system. Those who say Chevy needs to start acting like a real GM are missing the mark here. He puts on his big boy and goes to war against the other 29 teams at draft and in the designing of procedures and processes geared towards turning our draft picks into impact players which is what his mandate from ownership is. The Jets plan on achieving organizational success by developing a competitive advantage over the other teams with regards to drafting and developing. Does that mean that the Jets should forego trying to acquire talent through trades and FA, absolutely not? The Jets have and will continue to add pieces through trade and FA; it just won’t be the primary talent acquisition avenue that they take. I am sure that if there is a deal that fits with the strategic direction of the team Chevy won’t be afraid to make it.

Moreover developing a high level of proficiency through drafting and development will have a spillover effect into the organizations proficiency on the trade front. Having a highly stocked cupboard of assets makes it easier to trade for talent to fill roster holes.

This strategy isn’t reinventing the wheel, it has been done to great success by a number of organizations.

I would like to draw your attention to two cases as to why adopting a strategy and sticking to it is prudent.

I am going to compare the Toronto Maple Leafs to their provincial rival the Ottawa Senators. Despite not having the near the resources that the Leafs have, the Sens have massively outperformed the Leafs over the last decade and a bit, why?

The reason is that the Senators realized early that they would never be able to compete with the big spending teams in FA so they designed a system geared towards drafting and retaining their talent. They went about aligning the organizations resources to doing that and over the years have developed the required competencies needed to execute that strategy.

The Leafs on the other hand have never shown the patience to see something through to its conclusion. They continually change their mind on what direction they want to go in. They are very much the model that some on here would like Chevy to take. They kept trading prospects to try to prolong an ageing window, they kept overpaying for mediocre Free Agents. They never had the patience to stick with a plan long enough to learn and develop the competencies needed to achieve success in any paradigm in the league. Instead they have tried to do it all and have been stuck in no man’s land because of it.

It is important not to try to do everything at once, you can become good in many areas but its very difficult to achieve mastery in any of them.

I’m not going to say the Jets will ultimately be successful, but by developing a long term strategy that has the full support of the organization they have at least given themselves a legit chance for long term sustainable organizational success. Its more than can be said about other organizations in the league.

You, like many other "patient" people here like to misrepresent the position of people here advocating change. It's few and far between that you will find a person that wants to change directions at the drop of a hat ala Toronto or Philadelphia. That is not the model we are following, nor it is the model that should be emulated, obviously. Not too mention the logistical issues with Philly and Toronto being huge market teams while we are a small market team.

What people are advocating that "drafting and developing" is not nearly enough. Not ONE team that has had success gets success solely through the draft. There is more to an organization than hanging onto your 7 picks and picking good players while barely managing your NHL roster.

Chevy has continually shied away from making an impact on the roster. He has made some secondary roster moves, but this is essentially the team that played in 2010-11. How many other teams have essentially the same roster from? Maybe a few like Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston. What do those teams have in common? Success. Whereas we have had none.

Chevy appears to have no direction. 29 other teams are out there drafting and developing talent. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think we managed to re-invent the wheel and become the master of drafting and developing. But but all those players are going to Gary Roberts! But so are 100's of unknowns, we are doing what everyone else is doing.

What is required is some real direction in the organization. Are we rebuilding? Are we adding picks and youth? Or are we trying to take the next step? Are we trading picks for veterans and signing free agents? We seem to be trying to do both at once. That is just not going to work. We have little idea what we want to do. That's what's killing this organization.

How do you know he didn't pursue any of them? And do you think any of those players would get us into the playoffs? In the central division?

I know because if he had pursued those players they would be in Winnipeg? Think Hainsey is turning down 2y. 5million at start of free agency to sign for 1y, 2mil in Carolina? Really? Think Khudobin or Greiss would turn down the chance to challenge a weak starter for 1-1.5 million rather than the peanuts they took to be clear cut backups? If so I have a bridge to sell you in Nunavut.

Well it's debatable whether Hainsey makes us a Better D team and nobody is claiming our problem is the play of Montoya. Would any of those other goalie's have played more than Monty? Probably not. I don't see where the points come from.

Noel takes his marching orders from Chevy. Chevy brings in Khudobin to challenge perennially mediocre netminder Pavelec and tells Noel to give him a real chance, you think Noel is suddenly going to bench him? If he does, Chevy moves on to the next coach. It's not even close to debatable if Hainsey makes us a better team. He makes us a MUCH better team with him in the top 6 compared to CLitsome. I said way back when the contract was signed that we would be talking buyout by the end of year 2 with Clitsome. Turns out we are talking that much much sooner. Clitsome is a #6/7 D. Hainsey is a solid #4. That's just the easiest move. There is also Ference, Scuderi, Gilbert etc that moved on the UFA market, not too mention Smid was moved earlier this year for absolute PEANUTS. There was opportunities to improve this club Chevy has refused to take
 

blueandgoldguy

Registered User
Oct 8, 2010
5,304
2,597
Greg's River Heights
Ya right and I have some beach front property near Churchill to sell you

Odd that years later the only way to defend that move to say it was forced upon you.

It was a bad move a rash move to appease a fan base and screaming media.

The funny thing was they added salary when they moved to Phoenix. T

He's right though. I followed the Jets at the time and it was widely reported back then that the new owners in Phoenix felt that having two star players in Tkachuk and Selanne would be too costly. Since they felt Tkachuk would be the brighter star longterm they chose to trade Selanne.

This isn't something that was reported years after the fact to take the blame off Jets' management at the time - it was reported at that time it happened..and unfortunately the Jets new owners traded the wrond player.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
10,440
Those who were arguing for guys like Khudobin or Greiss were hoping that these guys were ready to step into a larger role - a 1A/1B type of thing. So imagine Monty having 16 starts and maintaining his pace so far, so he's 10-4-2. If Pavs points percentage stays the same, the Jets are at 39 instead of 35 points.

I don't want to say Hainsey was the answer, but ******* if Clitsome hasn't beclowned himself on a regular basis. Smid was traded to Calgary for very little... Gilbert signed in Florida for less than Clitsome. There were options - doesn't have to be Chara...just eat up some minutes that are being handed to Clitsome and Stuart right now. I guarantee that's worth a couple of points right there.

Unless they were crazy outstanding like Harding in Minny, I doubt either one would have more starts right now than Monty does.

I'm no Clitsome or Stuart fan at all but Hainsey was not the answer. Didn't Smid re-sign with the oilers during the summer? He wasn't available until Edmonton ran into cap space issues. We didn't have the cap space to add Smid even if we wanted to.
 

veganhunter

Mexico City Coyotes!
Feb 15, 2010
2,934
3
Calgary
We paid more for Clitsome than Carolina paid for a legit top 4 defenseman in Hainsey. I said it back when the contract was signed Clitsome will be a buyout candidate before that contract was up. I called this and many people attacked me for it. I am so so disappointed I was proven right.

Khudobin signed in Carolina for less than 800K per year. Greiss signed in Phoenix for almost league minimum. These are guys I identified last year as guys that would push Pavelec for starting time. These are guys that could have been had for less than 1.5 million per season. Yet we didn't manage to land anyone to press PAvelec.

Chevy is either not identifying the weaknesses in the lineup or just not addressing them. This is a serious problem. You can check my posting history, these are things I said last year. There was plenty of options out there to solidify the team yet Chevy did not choose to pursue any of them.

Pretty widely speculated Hainaey had no desire to sign in Canada nevermind Winnipeg

I would have liked another goalie as well but it's not like Montoya has been bad and Claude hates to use his back up regardless.
 

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