Changes to the draft lottery...

[misfit]

I love the change, and have wanted to see something like this for a while. I would've preferred if they'd gone even farther with it like extending it to the top 5 or even top 10 draft positions, but I know that's incredibly unlikely.

Why they'd wait until 2016 to put it into effect is beyond me, though. I mean, the season hasn't even started yet and they've made changes like this much later in the game in past years (they went from seeding the playoff teams by their regular season finish to seeding them by playoff finish mid-playoffs one year, for example).

 

[rboomercat90]

Tanking is actually a very very rare thing in my opinion. I do not think the Oilers tanked even once.

This is the scary version when trying to figure out exactly what has happened here.

 

[Mr Positive]

This is the scary version when trying to figure out exactly what has happened here.

It seems obvious to me. I don't think Tambi was awful. He wasn't good either. No, the true reason we stayed at the bottom for so long was because the 2009-10 Oilers were just that bad. They were so bad that they sank the team for next 3 years.

-very little talent in the NHL. MacT's defensive systems covered this fact up. Quinn exposed it.
- very little talent in the prospect pool. We had high profile flubs like Plante and Pouliot.
-no cap space. Overpaid grinders who were in decline (ie Moreau/ Staios)
-Injuries! Hemsky was MIA during this period. Khabi was often gone too, and even at his best he was only good in stretches. Rollie was likely also masking our issues.

It was a total nightmare. Without real talent in the prospect pool the only way to recover is to build through the draft, and that takes a few years. The one "rebuild" aspect of Tambi's time as GM was that he would not give out NMCs and he put priority on planning the cap for the future out. We are still feeling the benefits of that, but it hurt the team at the time (a little bit considering that we likely wouldn't have signed that many UFA anyway)

 

[hyster110]

It seems obvious to me. I don't think Tambi was awful. He wasn't good either. No, the true reason we stayed at the bottom for so long was because the 2009-10 Oilers were just that bad. They were so bad that they sank the team for next 3 years.

-very little talent in the NHL. MacT's defensive systems covered this fact up. Quinn exposed it.
- very little talent in the prospect pool. We had high profile flubs like Plante and Pouliot.
-no cap space. Overpaid grinders who were in decline (ie Moreau/ Staios)
-Injuries! Hemsky was MIA during this period. Khabi was often gone too, and even at his best he was only good in stretches. Rollie was likely also masking our issues.

It was a total nightmare. Without real talent in the prospect pool the only way to recover is to build through the draft, and that takes a few years. The one "rebuild" aspect of Tambi's time as GM was that he would not give out NMCs and he put priority on planning the cap for the future out. We are still feeling the benefits of that, but it hurt the team at the time (a little bit considering that we likely wouldn't have signed that many UFA anyway)

this should be copied to the thread on the main board

 

[Raab]

It seems obvious to me. I don't think Tambi was awful. He wasn't good either. No, the true reason we stayed at the bottom for so long was because the 2009-10 Oilers were just that bad. They were so bad that they sank the team for next 3 years.

-very little talent in the NHL. MacT's defensive systems covered this fact up. Quinn exposed it.
- very little talent in the prospect pool. We had high profile flubs like Plante and Pouliot.
-no cap space. Overpaid grinders who were in decline (ie Moreau/ Staios)
-Injuries! Hemsky was MIA during this period. Khabi was often gone too, and even at his best he was only good in stretches. Rollie was likely also masking our issues.

It was a total nightmare. Without real talent in the prospect pool the only way to recover is to build through the draft, and that takes a few years. The one "rebuild" aspect of Tambi's time as GM was that he would not give out NMCs and he put priority on planning the cap for the future out. We are still feeling the benefits of that, but it hurt the team at the time (a little bit considering that we likely wouldn't have signed that many UFA anyway)

This is pure garbage. Any real GM could have had this team turned around after Hall and Eberle came into the equation. The fact Tambo couldn't even get them out of the bottom 3 shows how incompetent he was. Guy did absolutely nothing and made a fat pay check from it. I'm glad the new changes have come in as a fan as I know now that I'll never have to see PURPOSEFUL TANKING like what the Oilers did again. You can say it wasn't purposeful tanking but when your big time signings over the summer are "#2 dman" Cam Barker, or a guy like Ben Eager and your trading away any player with any sort of skill for picks AFTER you were the worst team in the league it's not very hard to figure out.

For the record this was the 2011 team:

Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Paajarvi-Cogliano-Omark
Brule-Fraser-Jones

Smid-Whitney
Foster-Gilbert
Vandermeer-Petry
Strudwick

Khabibulin
Dubnyk

Tweak the forwards a bit, add some actual NHL LHD, and ditch the bum goalies and you'd have a very competitive team.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

It seems obvious to me. I don't think Tambi was awful. He wasn't good either. No, the true reason we stayed at the bottom for so long was because the 2009-10 Oilers were just that bad. They were so bad that they sank the team for next 3 years.

-very little talent in the NHL. MacT's defensive systems covered this fact up. Quinn exposed it.
- very little talent in the prospect pool. We had high profile flubs like Plante and Pouliot.
-no cap space. Overpaid grinders who were in decline (ie Moreau/ Staios)
-Injuries! Hemsky was MIA during this period. Khabi was often gone too, and even at his best he was only good in stretches. Rollie was likely also masking our issues.

It was a total nightmare. Without real talent in the prospect pool the only way to recover is to build through the draft, and that takes a few years. The one "rebuild" aspect of Tambi's time as GM was that he would not give out NMCs and he put priority on planning the cap for the future out. We are still feeling the benefits of that, but it hurt the team at the time (a little bit considering that we likely wouldn't have signed that many UFA anyway)

He was though because of all the dithering. The Not doing ANYTHING or only doing minor minor things. Tambellini wasn't out right awful (Trading Jokinen and Luongo for Parrish and Kvasha) but he didn't really help the team at all.

Mac-T said the team was in a "state of neglect" when he took over, and that's a pretty apt description.

 

[Beerfish]

He was though because of all the dithering. The Not doing ANYTHING or only doing minor minor things. Tambellini wasn't out right awful (Trading Jokinen and Luongo for Parrish and Kvasha) but he didn't really help the team at all.

Mac-T said the team was in a "state of neglect" when he took over, and that's a pretty apt description.

Yeah a state of neglect from the one in overall charge, Kevin freaking Lowe. At this point in time the center ice position for this team is in a state of neglect.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Yeah a state of neglect from the one in overall charge, Kevin freaking Lowe. At this point in time the center ice position for this team is in a state of neglect.

Of course it is...being neglected.

 

[CupofOil]

Tanking is actually a very very rare thing in my opinion. I do not think the Oilers tanked even once.

Agreed. I actually think they truly believed that they were putting together better rosters (lol). I have a hard time believing that upper management gave Tambo the mandate to tank on purpose.
The Tambo era and now MacT is actually them trying their hardest to get better, scary thought but i do think that MacT has a better grasp of how to do his job than Tambo did although his complete failure to address the center issue is perplexing to say the least.

 

[OilTastic]

Does it really matter? Your other options were Alzner, Cherpanov, Voracek and Gagner. Clearly guys that wouldn't have had much of impact for a few years.

^um....yeah it does! Alzner is a good solid d-man and Voracek has just come off of 2 productive seasons, including last year's 62 point season where he finished 2nd in team scoring! yes, Pouliot never has lived up to his #4 overall pick, it happens, but Adam Larsson is still developing, so it's too early to write him off just becuase he hasn't had an instant impact. but i guess it doesn't for the LA Kings, given that despite some poor 1st round choices like Thomas Hickey, Colton Tuebert, and Derek Forbort, they still managed to win 2 Stanley's.

 

[joestevens29]

^um....yeah it does! Alzner is a good solid d-man and Voracek has just come off of 2 productive seasons, including last year's 62 point season where he finished 2nd in team scoring! yes, Pouliot never has lived up to his #4 overall pick, it happens, but Adam Larsson is still developing, so it's too early to write him off just becuase he hasn't had an instant impact. but i guess it doesn't for the LA Kings, given that despite some poor 1st round choices like Thomas Hickey, Colton Tuebert, and Derek Forbort, they still managed to win 2 Stanley's.

But the difference between those guys and the guys that go 1 or 2 is huge, especially for a rebuilding team. You get Pat Kane you have an immediate impact player. You get Alzner what do you get? A guy that's decent but sure as heck isn't going to help your rebuild anytime soon.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

But the difference between those guys and the guys that go 1 or 2 is huge, especially for a rebuilding team. You get Pat Kane you have an immediate impact player. You get Alzner what do you get? A guy that's decent but sure as heck isn't going to help your rebuild anytime soon.

Agreed, as a I sarcastically suggested on the first page that finally there's help for the Leafs, but this move is to "help" ensure some "larger markets" have access to these star players at the top of the draft.

If you honestly don't believe that, I have some land I'd like to sell you on the moon.

 

[s7ark]

I am glad the Oilers got in and got their top picks before this rule. And for us, this is a good thing. This change will give the Oilers a shot at new top picks even as their core ages and improves.

But this is going to really hurt teams at the bottom of the standings in 2016 and on. If Buffalo or Winnipeg or another team that isn't a top destination is in the 28-30 spots, they are going to have a really hard time improving. The difference between 1 and 4 is big most years.

This rule change is a bad idea. The NBA does this and that league has absolutely no parity. The same teams are always good, the rest alternate between acceptable and bad. I guess that is the model the NHL wants to follow.

 

[joestevens29]

I am glad the Oilers got in and got their top picks before this rule. And for us, this is a good thing. This change will give the Oilers a shot at new top picks even as their core ages and improves.

But this is going to really hurt teams at the bottom of the standings in 2016 and on. If Buffalo or Winnipeg or another team that isn't a top destination is in the 28-30 spots, they are going to have a really hard time improving. The difference between 1 and 4 is big most years.

This rule change is a bad idea. The NBA does this and that league has absolutely no parity. The same teams are always good, the rest alternate between acceptable and bad. I guess that is the model the NHL wants to follow.

This isn't really correct. Where are the Lakers and Celtics or Mavs lately? The Clippers were a horrid Franchise for what 2 decades, now they are the top LA team.

Really don't see how it's that much different than the NHL. Few years back Det, Pit and Van were at the top now it's CHI, LA, and Bos.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This isn't really correct. Where are the Lakers and Celtics or Mavs lately? The Clippers were a horrid Franchise for what 2 decades, now they are the top LA team.

Really don't see how it's that much different than the NHL. Few years back Det, Pit and Van were at the top now it's CHI, LA, and Bos.

The Difference I see, NHL v. NBA, is the NHL (for the most part) all the Markets matter and can matter, where as in the NBA there's only about 10 to 12 Markets that actually matter, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Portland, etc, aren't important so they just don't get good.

 

[Alex87]

Agreed. I actually think they truly believed that they were putting together better rosters (lol). I have a hard time believing that upper management gave Tambo the mandate to tank on purpose.
The Tambo era and now MacT is actually them trying their hardest to get better, scary thought but i do think that MacT has a better grasp of how to do his job than Tambo did although his complete failure to address the center issue is perplexing to say the least.

I don't think Tambo was given a mandate to tank, but I do believe he was told to "go young" and build through the draft. It's a lot easier to sell, but the result was the same.

I agree re: MacTavish though. Tambellini was a terrible manager of assets and we lost some valuable pieces for close to nothing. On MacTavish's inability to address the Centre position, I think we're seeing a repeat of last year's goaltending situation. He believed Dubnyk was "adequate" but moved quickly to bring someone else in when he proved to be less. Right now I'd wager he thinks Arco/Draisaitl are also adequate, but will make moves during the season to address the position if it's going off the rails. I predict this will become a pattern that we'll see from MacTavish over the months and years, and although it's hardly ideal it's much better than Tambo's pattern of "assessing" and dithering.

In defence of Tambo, if the Oilers become a Cup Contender anytime this decade with Hall and RNH at the forefront, we'll probably regard his tenure as a painful but necessary step.

 

[Beerfish]

I don't think Tambo was given a mandate to tank, but I do believe he was told to "go young" and build through the draft. It's a lot easier to sell, but the result was the same.

I agree re: MacTavish though. Tambellini was a terrible manager of assets and we lost some valuable pieces for close to nothing. On MacTavish's inability to address the Centre position, I think we're seeing a repeat of last year's goaltending situation. He believed Dubnyk was "adequate" but moved quickly to bring someone else in when he proved to be less. Right now I'd wager he thinks Arco/Draisaitl are also adequate, but will make moves during the season to address the position if it's going off the rails. I predict this will become a pattern that we'll see from MacTavish over the months and years, and although it's hardly ideal it's much better than Tambo's pattern of "assessing" and dithering.

In defence of Tambo, if the Oilers become a Cup Contender anytime this decade with Hall and RNH at the forefront, we'll probably regard his tenure as a painful but necessary step.

He never thought Dub was adequate he gave him a ringing non endorsement before the season, he followed it up by bringing in a laughable alternative in lolbarbera. He did not move quickly to short things up, the season was lost by the time he did. In the end he had to give up draft picks for Scrivens and Fasth to shore things up.

Management by hoping weak spots pan out and then making moves to shore them up sewers your team and also often leads to using up resources to fix deficiencies that needed to be addressed in the off season.

 

[Roof Daddy]

hey, any draft changes that screw the Flames out of a top pick in the next few drafts is OK by me!!

If we can't make the playoffs (and the odds certainly appear stacked against us), the perfect season would be finishing in the 10-14 range, the Flames finishing 2nd last, and we win the lottery, bumping them back to 3. Ultimate troll job (though Hanifin is a fine consolation prize at 3).

 

[OilTastic]

^that's going to be the problem this coming draft....it's so deep that i would want the Flames to finish last in the league and get bumped down to #10 or something, but i don't know how this is going to work or how far down you can fall?

 

[joestevens29]

^that's going to be the problem this coming draft....it's so deep that i would want the Flames to finish last in the league and get bumped down to #10 or something, but i don't know how this is going to work or how far down you can fall?

This year I thought you can only go down 1 spot. Next year you could go from 1 to 4

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This year I thought you can only go down 1 spot. Next year you could go from 1 to 4

The First time that happens will be the last time that happens, imo.

 

[Oilfan2]

He never thought Dub was adequate he gave him a ringing non endorsement before the season, he followed it up by bringing in a laughable alternative in lolbarbera. He did not move quickly to short things up, the season was lost by the time he did. In the end he had to give up draft picks for Scrivens and Fasth to shore things up.

Management by hoping weak spots pan out and then making moves to shore them up sewers your team and also often leads to using up resources to fix deficiencies that needed to be addressed in the off season.

Which were great deals.

How do you think he would have gotten goalies in the off-season without giving up anything? Pull them out of his ***?

 

[Alex87]

He never thought Dub was adequate he gave him a ringing non endorsement before the season, he followed it up by bringing in a laughable alternative in lolbarbera. He did not move quickly to short things up, the season was lost by the time he did. In the end he had to give up draft picks for Scrivens and Fasth to shore things up.

Management by hoping weak spots pan out and then making moves to shore them up sewers your team and also often leads to using up resources to fix deficiencies that needed to be addressed in the off season.

Here's the quote:

I've always believed that when you're assessing goaltenders, if you have to ask the question you know the answer. The question would be, has Devan established himself as a number one goalie in the National Hockey League? And I still think it's a valid question. So, I think that Devan, although he's trending upwards in his numbers and played adequately for us this year, I still think, and I know Devan feels the same way, that there's another level for him. From our standpoint, we'll see that he can get to that level.

At best that's politically correct. Definitely not a ringing endorsement.

 

[nexttothemoon]

It's minor tweaking... I don't know the exact % odds that should be assigned to each lottery team... and I guess the NHL doesn't either as they keep changing it.

It sounds like they are adjusting the odds to not make teams able to "securely" tank. All well and good but honestly I think the worst teams are often losing out in terms of playoff revenue, lower regular season attendance revenues... likely less merchandising revenue most of the time as well when you are a cellar team etc.

I don't know how many teams intentionally want to stay in the basement to get a high pick. I can see it being the case when they are well into the season and all hope is gone as they are far down in the standings early on (by Christmas etc) ... might as well go for a high draft pick and not try to dramatically improve the team but I don't think these odds are going to change that.

Basement teams are still going to get a top 3/4/5 pick and this won't encourage teams to try and be more competitive... some teams are just too crappy (poor management/poor coaching/draft failures/can't attract free agents etc) to do anything about it and HAVE to go into cycles of rebuilds/teardowns which is what really sends them down into the basement spots... that won't change no matter what the NHL does with lottery odds.

 

[OilTastic]

^ "securely tank"....i love it !!