News Article: Chad Drown, Head Athletic Trainer of Condors, charged with felony offences RE contacting minor to commit sexual offence (fired by team)

[Oilhawks]

Can we have the thread title changed? The name in the release is Chad, not Chris, looks like @AddyTheWrath put Chris by mistake

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't disagree with the additional risk factors, but I think if you do it right those risks are minimized. What it boils down to is basically never have an adult alone with a child, and have all adults in contact with children be trained in observing risk factors and mandatory reporters.

I would also note that a lot of those issues are just as prevalent in their own communities and that we as a society should not be relying on the home and a child's support network to keep them safe. I've had the misfortune of living next to rather poor parents and frankly it's shattered my perception of how safe the average family is.

Again as a society children are generally with parent or guardian until age 18. Many well beyond that. But we put athletes in the position where they are AWAY from parents or guardians, away from that first protection and we put them instead in the AUTHORITY of random individuals like Graham James who have somehow got through minimal and substandard screening. The authority is the key. Children are susceptible to authority figures, coaches and in every case of youth athletes that authority has played a role. Of course the authority of the random figure is much more salient when they child is ALONE living away from primary contacts.

The Societal issue you raise, its myriad and complex. We live putting it simply in post community society. We live in anonymous society. Especially in larger cities. But we also increasingly have school contacts, school social workers, outreach workers, and we have digital monitoring and screening as well. Tech device, online, and abuse it incurs has been both a bane but also an eye glass. More luring and grooming occur online, but more detection of predators is occurring online. Perhaps online detection becomes even more of a significant inroad to finding abusers and keeping children safe. It isn't enough now. But with resources put into action it can be.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Castrate him.

The problem with that is it wouldn’t remove the urges. It’s punishment, sure, but it doesn’t fix the problem. Something is wrong in their brains, that’s what needs fixing.

 

[bellagiobob]

Heres another take. Even from a community pov communities that are strong in hockey and raising promising athletes fairly deserve to be seeing the fruition of those efforts close at home. So that there should be no reason that a kid from say North Battleford should have to play in Winnipeg. Many such small town communities are hotbeds for Athletes. The communities support these athletes and it often involves the support of communties in digging deep with expenses and volutenteering in getting rinks built, funded, or other sporting facilities. Raising athletes, its grassroots endeavor. So that the communities raise these athletes and then the larger cities want them as soon as said kids or athletes become marketable commodities you can sell tickets to.

Its wrong imo. As a society we state that adulthood is at age 18. We arbitrarily designate that, but so stick to it. Anybody under the age of 18 who is deemed not to be able to make all their own decisions should not be put into positions where they have to. The general view in society, and legally is that those under 18 require protection of parents, guardians. Yet with athletes we seem to lose sight of this. We make those athletes live away from home in order to pursue their sports. In many cases we require it. The kid playing high level in Moose Jaw should be able to stay in Moose Jaw and play for local teams there. Many of which would be good anyway. The way I see that also makes for MUCH more interesting products and teams. To me its much more riveting if a team from Estevan can beat a team from Toronto and with all local kids. Drafting conttrives results anyway. We're getting off topic of thread but still relevant to my position that youth athletes be allowed to reside at home in their communities.

I don't see that as being realistic. Most small towns will produce an elite player here or there, or have an incredible run with a certain birth year, but in general cannot sustain an elite level of competitiveness. Just the way it is based on population. Plus they don't have the facilities to support a team at that level, or the demographics to make it financially viable. It doesn't matter if you're a hockey player, a piano virtuoso, etc, at some point you can continue to be a big fish in a small pond, nothing wrong with that, or leave and go to a larger center that has better coaching, facilities, opportunity, etc.

 

[DaGap]

9mm fixes it

 

[29Beast97Mode]

Apparently it was a sting operation that he was caught in and he faces up to 8 years in prison

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't see that as being realistic. Most small towns will produce an elite player here or there, or have an incredible run with a certain birth year, but in general cannot sustain an elite level of competitiveness. Just the way it is based on population. Plus they don't have the facilities to support a team at that level, or the demographics to make it financially viable. It doesn't matter if you're a hockey player, a piano virtuoso, etc, at some point you can continue to be a big fish in a small pond, nothing wrong with that, or leave and go to a larger center that has better coaching, facilities, opportunity, etc.

In our society we've structured one situation for the majority. Stay at home until off to college, University, or studies or post secondary training, once you are an adult, and specialize in a chosen occupation, vs an entirely different scenario for prospective athletes face requiring that they leave home BEFORE reaching adulthood. Only pro athletes face this. The rest, maybe depending on DOB the odd few enter university or post secondary away from home just before turning 18 but its different. They're not leaving home at 14 or 15..

These are two drastically different paths with two standards. We've seen the rampant pitfalls of the athletic path that requires leaving home much earlier.

I get what you're saying in regards to competition required. But maybe a rethink on that is in order as well. Athleticism after all, the main goal of it is physical health and aspiring physical health for the greater population. We shouldn't need to structure athletic factories so that we can compete on Olympic platforms or such. That does not benefit the plurality. Its very singular, even elitist benefit.

To wit the standard argument about what the function of a rotten to the core hockey Canada is, being constantly debated. Is it to benefit competition in the sport for all, to maximum societal benefit or is it to benefit the few, for self means and self aggrandizement of people like Bob Nicholson just to put it on their resume. Albeit in current circumstance nobody should. Hockey Canada showed us that even the elite hockey youth are not being properly monitored, and even that their predatory actions are being allowed. Its without guidance that this occurs.

So I realize this seems odd argument on a pro hockey board but should we be advancing only elitism as an end goal that contributes to all the malaise we see in the world of hockey, or should we have more community based initiatives that spread the greater good to all? Its a reasonable question. The answer is we've chosen the former because money talks. Doesn't mean its the ideal answer.

Youth hockey players or youth athletes are essentially treated like chattel. Unpaid, packed off to go, and for the benefit of Junior teams and their owners making bucks. for the benefit of TV contracts making bucks. Not all of this seems to be a good or proper state of treating or raising youth. Sorry for the passion in my stance on this.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Can we have the thread title changed? The name in the release is Chad, not Chris, looks like @AddyTheWrath put Chris by mistake

Oops haha.

Looks like someone fixed it.

 

[bellagiobob]

In our society we've structured one situation for the majority. Stay at home until off to college, University, or studies or post secondary training, once you are an adult, and specialize in a chosen occupation, vs an entirely different scenario for prospective athletes face requiring that they leave home BEFORE reaching adulthood. Only pro athletes face this. The rest, maybe depending on DOB the odd few enter university or post secondary away from home just before turning 18 but its different. They're not leaving home at 14 or 15..

These are two drastically different paths with two standards. We've seen the rampant pitfalls of the athletic path that requires leaving home much earlier.

I get what you're saying in regards to competition required. But maybe a rethink on that is in order as well. Athleticism after all, the main goal of it is physical health and aspiring physical health for the greater population. We shouldn't need to structure athletic factories so that we can compete on Olympic platforms or such. That does not benefit the plurality. Its very singular, even elitist benefit.

To wit the standard argument about what the function of a rotten to the core hockey Canada is, being constantly debated. Is it to benefit competition in the sport for all, to maximum societal benefit or is it to benefit the few, for self means and self aggrandizement of people like Bob Nicholson just to put it on their resume. Albeit in current circumstance nobody should.

So I realize this seems odd argument on a pro hockey board but should we be advancing only elitism as an end goal that contributes to all the malaise we see in the world of hockey, or should we have more community based initiatives that spread the greater good to all? Its a reasonable question. The answer is we've chosen the former because money talks. Doesn't mean its the ideal answer.

Youth hockey players or youth athletes are essentially treated like chattel. Unpaid, packed off to go, and for the benefit of Junior teams and their owners making bucks. for the benefit of TV contracts making bucks. Not all of this seems to be a good or proper state of treating youth.

But no one is being forced to leave home. Strictly a choice. I don’t want to deny someone the opportunity to advance their skill set or possibly limit their career ambitions. Junior hockey does provide a pretty decent paid educational option once players are done and pro hockey is not an option.

As a parent, I’m glad we are allowed to have a choice. But it’s not for everybody. Slippery slope when we start outright denying the opportunity because of a few bad apples. Instead we need to make it increasingly more difficult for those bad apples to become involved.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But no one is being forced to leave home. Strictly a choice. I don’t want to deny someone the opportunity to advance their skill set or possibly limit their career ambitions. Junior hockey does provide a pretty decent paid educational option once players are done and pro hockey is not an option.

As a parent, I’m glad we are allowed to have a choice. But it’s not for everybody. Slippery slope when we start outright denying the opportunity because of a few bad apples. Instead we need to make it increasingly more difficult for those bad apples to become involved.

I want to thank you for having the discussion. For sure there is no one size that fits all but a lot of the chasing dreams, Its got its pitfalls and a lot more than we've covered.

I will say that we don't know for sure that leaving home is strictly a choice either in all instances. There are some helicopter parents that chase the pro dream for their children. Their ilk can be heard at any rink yelling and screaming at their kids to be better. They exist.

Its conceivable that some kids, its not their choice, or at best its mixed choice. At worst some kids would be packed off to Junior hockey not necessarily of their choice. But that would be a minority of them in all likelihood. Just wanted to raise the point that we can't assume choice in this. Sometimes its the parents influence and choice. Just like it can be with say academia or career choice, but in the case of athletes its involving children that don't have the same rights to make their own decisions. Or can be unduly influenced into making choices.

So many autobiographies of hockey tragedies read as if the choice is unclear. Players that struggled with approval of parents, coaches, peers, or for popularity engaged in something that they questioned. That succumbed to it.

The difficulty that I can tell you is that predatory bad apples are attracted to any circumstance that has children away from their home for extended times. This could be anything from summer camps to hockey camps to athletic coaching etc. Pedophiles tend to be attracted for obvious reasons and there is no screen for it except vulnerability checks which would only report past convictions even if it is used in screening applicants for coaching or other positions.

Legislatively one of the difficulties in Canada is that a Vulnerability Sector check that would reveal past convictions related to children is not a mandated requirement that orgs have to follow. They follow it at discretion, or don't follow it.

https://coach.ca/sites/default/files/2021-10/Background-Screening-Policy_Oct2021-EN.pdf

People should enquire whether a specific org is completing such checks or not.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This kind of fits here as general overview of how Junior Hockey has systemically failed in looking after youth and providing guidance and supervision. It makes the argument that Junior hockey culture had endemic problems among them rape culture. I don't know one way or the other, but its interesting reading and a lot of evidence mounting. Its a newer compilation and pretty complete.

https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/features/alleged-group-sexual-assault-junior-hockey-canada

So when packing kids off to Junior hockey its both predator and predation that parents have to worry about and a constant in it is that youth are poorly supervised and often left in situations where any criminal action can take place.

This is relevant to this thread in particular due to the problems with hockey culture being so common place. Or at least increasingly so. Whether it be Junior, pro rank etc.

Players like Virtanen have paid the price for what a lot of Junior hockey players have been involved with. The only questions are how many and what proportion get involved and how many teams have had such impropriety. One senses the news on this won't stop. Theres a lot more out there probably.

 

[Shathar]

God damn. burn it to the ground. Every f***ing day I wake up to more of this pedo shit.

 

[MoontoScott]

Heres another take. Even from a community pov communities that are strong in hockey and raising promising athletes fairly deserve to be seeing the fruition of those efforts close at home. So that there should be no reason that a kid from say North Battleford should have to play in Winnipeg. Many such small town communities are hotbeds for Athletes. The communities support these athletes and it often involves the support of communties in digging deep with expenses and volutenteering in getting rinks built, funded, or other sporting facilities. Raising athletes, its grassroots endeavor. So that the communities raise these athletes and then the larger cities want them as soon as said kids or athletes become marketable commodities you can sell tickets to.

Its wrong imo. As a society we state that adulthood is at age 18. We arbitrarily designate that, but so stick to it. Anybody under the age of 18 who is deemed not to be able to make all their own decisions should not be put into positions where they have to. The general view in society, and legally is that those under 18 require protection of parents, guardians. Yet with athletes we seem to lose sight of this. We make those athletes live away from home in order to pursue their sports. In many cases we require it. The kid playing high level in Moose Jaw should be able to stay in Moose Jaw and play for local teams there. Many of which would be good anyway. The way I see that also makes for MUCH more interesting products and teams. To me its much more riveting if a team from Estevan can beat a team from Toronto and with all local kids. Drafting conttrives results anyway. We're getting off topic of thread but still relevant to my position that youth athletes be allowed to reside at home in their communities.

I see that the entire board of Hockey Canada has resigned this morning.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I see that the entire board of Hockey Canada has resigned this morning.

They heard me knocking.

 

[Double Dion]

How is Nicholson still employed by the organization? The Oilers need to do something there. They are worse than the Blackhawks.

 

[MoontoScott]

They heard me knocking.

The more I hear about this thing the more I am reminded of Dick Nixon's playbook.

Secret Accounts-illicit payouts--non-disclosure--anonymity--denial etc. etc.

Even Parliament can't ask them questions.

Looks like a new movie "All the Hockey Director's Men" might be streaming pretty soon.

 

[Oilhawks]

How is Nicholson still employed by the organization? The Oilers need to do something there. They are worse than the Blackhawks.

Take a hike.

 

[brentashton]

The more I hear about this thing the more I am reminded of Dick Nixon's playbook.

Secret Accounts-illicit payouts--non-disclosure--anonymity--denial etc. etc.

Even Parliament can't ask them questions.

Looks like a new movie "All the Hockey Director's Men" might be streaming pretty soon.

“Well, I am not a crook…” Bob Nicholson, Tom Renney and Scott Smith

 

[brentashton]

They heard me knocking.

You always seem able to bring the Stones into a thread.

I like that!

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Another great hire by Bill Scott!

 

[K1984]

Another great hire by Bill Scott!

True he should have known the hidden sexual preferences of the athletic trainer