Confirmed Trade: [CGY/MTL] Tyler Toffoli traded to Calgary for Emil Heinemann, Tyler Pitlick c. 1st+4th, '23 5th

[Scintillating10]

Value-wise it’s fine. Toffoli has been solid in the top 6. The trade would look better if the Flames were better as a team, but that’s not on Toffoli. He’s lived up to his end of the deal.

Yup, you fellows had bad break is why. Both Johnny Hockey and Tkachuk wanting out same time. Hard to replace that kind if talent. Same thing happened to us season before. Lost Weber and Price same time. We were in Cup Finals, dropped to last in league.

 

[madmike77]

Yup, you fellows had bad break is why. Both Johnny Hockey and Tkachuk wanting out same time. Hard to replace that kind if talent. Same thing happened to us season before. Lost Weber and Price same time. We were in Cup Finals, dropped to last in league.

Yes I would have preferred going the Ducks route and doing a complete rebuild, but for whatever reason Flames ownership refuses to ever pull the plug.

The team may get better as the new players develop chemistry, but I don’t think they’ll improve enough to be a real Cup contender.

 

[Haatley]

Yes I would have preferred going the Ducks route and doing a complete rebuild, but for whatever reason Flames ownership refuses to ever pull the plug.

The team may get better as the new players develop chemistry, but I don’t think they’ll improve enough to be a real Cup contender.

Why would the division champions rebuild?

 

[Scintillating10]

Yes I would have preferred going the Ducks route and doing a complete rebuild, but for whatever reason Flames ownership refuses to ever pull the plug.

The team may get better as the new players develop chemistry, but I don’t think they’ll improve enough to be a real Cup contender.

Well a rebuild is harsh. Around 5 years of bad hockey. Not nice

 

[madmike77]

Why would the division champions rebuild?

Because they lost their two best players? It’s not the same team without Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

 

[DFF]

Haven't watched Calgary much but Flames must be satisfied with this deal? Toffoli 15 goals 37 games in.

Toffoli is actually doing pretty good.

Deal is fine for the Flames

 

[Yepthatsme]

He’s on pace for 33 goals this year, and that’s with being tied for the 3rd most posts hit in the league so far with 8. He honestly could have so many more goals so far this season without the terrible luck he’s had. Another important note is since the flames changed up our lines, he has 8 points in 6 games with Lindholm-Dube, they seem to have excellent chemistry.

A 1st round pick and a prospect for this kind of production to go along with a 4.25 million cap hit this season and next is an excellent deal for the Flames. Think both clubs are elated with how the deal turned out.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Yeah, Toffoli's been very solid. Doesn't mesh with Huberdeau at even strength but does well enough with Lindholm and on the powerplay. On pace for a career high in points and goals.

Price to get him was a little steep all things considered but no real complaints in light of that. Flames have cap troubles this summer but he won't be the one moved.

 

[sxvnert]

Toffoli for Tyler Pitlick, Emil Heineman, Filip Mesar and 5th in 2023 (CGY)

 

[Haatley]

Because they lost their two best players? It’s not the same team without Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

So... when Sutter first took over the team... how long was it before Gaudreau and Tkachuk were producing at an elite level? Why was it acceptable to give them time to get to that level, but not for Huberdeau?

 

[Some Other Flame]

So... when Sutter first took over the team... how long was it before Gaudreau and Tkachuk were producing at an elite level? Why was it acceptable to give them time to get to that level, but not for Huberdeau?

However long it took Sutter to put the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line together.

Seriously, look at the numbers. There's false impression that it took those guys time to figure out Sutter's system. In reality, he didn't change the lines immediately when he took over the but the moment he did, that trio took off and never looked back. Well, until they the two bolted at the first chance they got.

 

[Haatley]

However long it took Sutter to put the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line together.

Seriously, look at the numbers. There's false impression that it took those guys time to figure out Sutter's system. In reality, he didn't change the lines immediately when he took over the but the moment he did, that trio took off and never looked back. Well, until they the two bolted at the first chance they got.

So what you're saying is it took some time to find the right line combos....

How is it false that they didn't produce immediately under Sutter and buy into their system? Where are your metrics to show that? I am not questioning, but I would like to see. Because I remember them not playing well under Sutter.

 

[Some Other Flame]

So what you're saying is it took some time to find the right line combos....

How is it false that they didn't produce immediately under Sutter and buy into their system? Where are your metrics to show that? I am not questioning, but I would like to see. Because I remember them not playing well under Sutter.

They didn't play well initially because Sutter came in literally saying he wasn't going to change much of anything because there was no time. And that's exactly what he did. For the first X amount of games, he left the horrible Gaudreau-Monahan-Ritchie line intact even though Monahan was broken and Ritchie was still Ritchie. Left Kylington scratched. And so on.

And then eventually:

Calgary’s new top line a big positive heading into next season

For Flames fans, the final month or so of this season was a mostly mis...

flamesnation.ca

 

[Nanuuk]

He’s on pace for 33 goals this year, and that’s with being tied for the 3rd most posts hit in the league so far with 8. He honestly could have so many more goals so far this season without the terrible luck he’s had. Another important note is since the flames changed up our lines, he has 8 points in 6 games with Lindholm-Dube, they seem to have excellent chemistry.

A 1st round pick and a prospect for this kind of production to go along with a 4.25 million cap hit this season and next is an excellent deal for the Flames. Think both clubs are elated with how the deal turned out.

And he does all the little things right when away from the puck. A solid veteran that works hard every shift and earns his keep - even if he isn't the fastest guy around.

 

[BRobMint]

Haven't watched Calgary much but Flames must be satisfied with this deal? Toffoli 15 goals 37 games in.

Toff has been good this year. He's the teams leading goal scorer and would have more if he didn't hit the post so god damn much

 

[JRichard]

He’s on pace for 33 goals this year, and that’s with being tied for the 3rd most posts hit in the league so far with 8. He honestly could have so many more goals so far this season without the terrible luck he’s had. Another important note is since the flames changed up our lines, he has 8 points in 6 games with Lindholm-Dube, they seem to have excellent chemistry.

A 1st round pick and a prospect for this kind of production to go along with a 4.25 million cap hit this season and next is an excellent deal for the Flames. Think both clubs are elated with how the deal turned out.

Mtl needs to wait a little bit before feeling « elated » as Heineman and Mesar are not playing yet. Patience is a virtue.
Toffoli has Suzuki numbers in his 2nd season with Flames. They can be pleased with Toffoli being leading scorer on a 4 mil deal.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

So... when Sutter first took over the team... how long was it before Gaudreau and Tkachuk were producing at an elite level? Why was it acceptable to give them time to get to that level, but not for Huberdeau?

In their 1st ~20 games under Sutter they had the same production as Huberdeau did.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

They didn't play well initially because Sutter came in literally saying he wasn't going to change much of anything because there was no time. And that's exactly what he did. For the first X amount of games, he left the horrible Gaudreau-Monahan-Ritchie line intact even though Monahan was broken and Ritchie was still Ritchie. Left Kylington scratched. And so on.

And then eventually:

Calgary’s new top line a big positive heading into next season

For Flames fans, the final month or so of this season was a mostly mis...

flamesnation.ca

Thats not entirely accurate, he drastically cut both of their ice time when he came in and didn't hand it back until they learned the system. It is very clear that Gaudreau became much stronger 2-way player under Sutter and Huberdeau is no different in that regard

 

[Some Other Flame]

Thats not entirely accurate, he drastically cut both of their ice time when he came in and didn't hand it back until they learned the system. It is very clear that Gaudreau became much stronger 2-way player under Sutter and Huberdeau is no different in that regard

Well that's just not completely true. Maybe only partially true at even strength.

Comparing 14 games of Darryl Sutter and Geoff Ward

The Calgary Flames made a coaching change in early March, moving out i...

flamesnation.ca

Tkachuk's ice time was cut by a little over 3 minutes which I guess counts as drastic. Gaudreau's dropped by all of 1:04 which hardly qualifies though.

Secondly, Sutter's kind of lazy aka he likes to roll four lines consistently. His top players never play a lot under him.

Lastly, the whole notion that Gaudreau and Tkachuk needed a bunch of time to figure out Sutter's system before they could break out offensively is little more than a farce. Which is the whole point. They exploded once there were put together, not because of that ridiculous idea that in 20 or so games, they suddenly become learned how to play defense. It's just some sad variation of the ends justify the means. In reality, Huberdeau isn't suddenly going to start scoring at a 115 point pace again with Lucic as a linemate. But if Ruzicka or someone else is moved up and then the line takes off, it's not because they figured out Sutter's system, or earned his trust even though that's what you'll say. It's because he stopped being a stubborn mule for once. And it could happen now just as well as 20 games ago.

 

[CanadienShark]

I still feel like it was a good trade for both teams. The Flames got a very good top 6 forward for a 1st, a decent prospect, and change.

 

[DFF]

Huberdeau can replace Tkachuk and his production once he figured out Sutter’s system

I honestly don’t see any kind of resemblance to Gaudreau. He is not that kind of player.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Well that's just not completely true. Maybe only partially true at even strength.

Comparing 14 games of Darryl Sutter and Geoff Ward

The Calgary Flames made a coaching change in early March, moving out i...

flamesnation.ca

Tkachuk's ice time was cut by a little over 3 minutes which I guess counts as drastic. Gaudreau's dropped by all of 1:04 which hardly qualifies though.

Secondly, Sutter's kind of lazy aka he likes to roll four lines consistently. His top players never play a lot under him.

Lastly, the whole notion that Gaudreau and Tkachuk needed a bunch of time to figure out Sutter's system before they could break out offensively is little more than a farce. Which is the whole point. They exploded once there were put together, not because of that ridiculous idea that in 20 or so games, they suddenly become learned how to play defense. It's just some sad variation of the ends justify the means. In reality, Huberdeau isn't suddenly going to start scoring at a 115 point pace again with Lucic as a linemate. But if Ruzicka or someone else is moved up and then the line takes off, it's not because they figured out Sutter's system, or earned his trust even though that's what you'll say. It's because he stopped being a stubborn mule for once. And it could happen now just as well as 20 games ago.

You are really overlooking the effect a coaching change has. Learning a system regardless of the team takes time. Generally after a coaching change a team will go on a bit of a high for 5-8 games before falling back to earth, then it will take about 10-15 games for the team to learn the new system and effectively execute it.

Huberdeau is already past that part of learning the system and his defensive stats this year prove it. He has since been picking up his scoring too, since the end of November he's been a near point per game. Nobody thinks Lucic is a long term solution to that 2nd line and I am all for playing Ruzicka there, but that is completely irrelevant to Huberdeau learning the system or not

 

[Some Other Flame]

You are really overlooking the effect a coaching change has. Learning a system regardless of the team takes time. Generally after a coaching change a team will go on a bit of a high for 5-8 games before falling back to earth, then it will take about 10-15 games for the team to learn the new system and effectively execute it.

Huberdeau is already past that part of learning the system and his defensive stats this year prove it. He has since been picking up his scoring too, since the end of November he's been a near point per game. Nobody thinks Lucic is a long term solution to that 2nd line and I am all for playing Ruzicka there, but that is completely irrelevant to Huberdeau learning the system or not

Cool but none of that has anything to do with the point being made

 

[RasmusAndersson]

However long it took Sutter to put the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line together.

Seriously, look at the numbers. There's false impression that it took those guys time to figure out Sutter's system. In reality, he didn't change the lines immediately when he took over the but the moment he did, that trio took off and never looked back. Well, until they the two bolted at the first chance they got.

After 37 games last year Flames had 110 goals. After 37 this year we have 104.

6 goal difference over 37 games is nothing, especially with how unlucky we've gotten with posts and missing grade A chances this year.

People acting like we were an elite scoring team all of last season are misremembering. Give this team time, we are very similar to last year except we have more depth and we don't rely on one line to create all of our offense.

As for Toffoli, he has been our most consistent forward this year imo. All you can ask for and more for 4.25 mil. I'll admit I thought he looked slow and not great in the playoffs last year, but he has more than made up for it so far this season. He also doesn't fit that well with Huberdeau but that's fine. Like others have said, Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli is an amazing 2nd line. We now just need one more forward to fill out the roster and I'm content:

Huberdeau-Kadri-______
Dube-Lindhom-Toffoli
Mang-Backs-Coleman
Lucic/Ruzicka-Lewis-Ritchie

Weegar-Tanev
Hanifin-Rasmus
Zadorov-Stone/Kylington

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

After 37 games last year Flames had 110 goals. After 37 this year we have 104.

6 goal difference over 37 games is nothing, especially with how unlucky we've gotten with posts and missing grade A chances this year.

People acting like we were an elite scoring team all of last season are misremembering. Give this team time, we are very similar to last year except we have more depth and we don't rely on one line to create all of our offense.

As for Toffoli, he has been our most consistent forward this year imo. All you can ask for and more for 4.25 mil. I'll admit I thought he looked slow and not great in the playoffs last year, but he has more than made up for it so far this season. He also doesn't fit that well with Huberdeau but that's fine. Like others have said, Dube-Lindholm-Toffoli is an amazing 2nd line. We now just need one more forward to fill out the roster and I'm content:

Huberdeau-Kadri-______
Dube-Lindhom-Toffoli
Mang-Backs-Coleman
Lucic/Ruzicka-Lewis-Ritchie

Weegar-Tanev
Hanifin-Rasmus
Zadorov-Stone/Kylington

Coronato on the top line and drafting Reinbacher to eventually replace Tanev would be excellent!