Proposal: CGY - FLA

[kerrabria]

Not to be stupid, but is the extra mill so binding? Might there be a way we could even out?

My counter offer would be we retain $200k on Connolly and they add a mid round pick.
A 4th Rounder wouldn't be a deal breaker obviously, but for three years, including this and next year's flat cap, I'd like to get a little for giving a little.

 

[Fig]

Not to be stupid, but is the extra mill so binding? Might there be a way we could even out?

In a vacuum, no. But bigger picture, many Flames fans want to pursue a deal for a top 6 RW upgrade. We need cap space to do that, but no idea how much we need. That's why it's kinda a sticking point. Many Flames fans ideally want flexibility to peruse other deals.

$1.3m is enough leftover to add a good bottom 6er and roll 18 skaters. $1.7m is enough to add a good bottom 6er plus a plug to be healthy scratched and roll 19 skaters. I would be shocked if there aren't multiple teams this year traveling with only 21 players total.

And Connolly really isn't overpriced. He has paced for 19.5 goals over 82 games for the past four seasons, and each of those years his production per game has increased. While playing both sides, he has maintained a sky high shooting % and scores disproportionately 5v5. For $3.5m, I think that's pretty fair. It's just that the Panthers are prepping for a season with too many third wheels in the top 9 (Wennberg, Hornqvist, Connolly, Vatrano, Saarela...) and we need to move one of them for a guy who can actually drive a line.

TL;DR I respect your refusal, but I don't think you're dismissiveness lines up with my proposal's merit.

At face value, it is fine. But Flames fans overall want to pursue bigger deals which is why the deal doesn't make sense cap wise nor moving Bennett wise if you look several steps ahead. Some might be making comments that are kinda hinting that you should know this, but IMO it's unfair that you should know several steps ahead for a team that isn't your favourite.

I can see where you came up with the idea conceptually, but no thanks from the Flames.

If you want a guy to drive a line, Derek Ryan should interest you. But Flames fans want a deal where we move him and don't take salary back. I don't think that's necessarily a fit with FLA fans who potentially also want to move cap?

My counter offer would be we retain $200k on Connolly and they add a mid round pick.
A 4th Rounder wouldn't be a deal breaker obviously, but for three years, including this and next year's flat cap, I'd like to get a little for giving a little.

Still NTY. Nothing against Connolly, but Flames should look into a better RW upgrade than him.

 

[violaswallet]

In a vacuum, no. But bigger picture, many Flames fans want to pursue a deal for a top 6 RW upgrade. We need cap space to do that, but no idea how much we need. That's why it's kinda a sticking point. Many Flames fans ideally want flexibility to peruse other deals.



At face value, it is fine. But Flames fans overall want to pursue bigger deals which is why the deal doesn't make sense cap wise nor moving Bennett wise if you look several steps ahead. Some might be making comments that are kinda hinting that you should know this, but IMO it's unfair that you should know several steps ahead for a team that isn't your favourite.

I can see where you came up with the idea conceptually, but no thanks from the Flames.

If you want a guy to drive a line, Derek Ryan should interest you. But Flames fans want a deal where we move him and don't take salary back. I don't think that's necessarily a fit with FLA fans who potentially also want to move cap?



Still NTY. Nothing against Connolly, but Flames should look into a better RW upgrade than him.

Makes sense Yep; I think the plan is to essentially switch one of our 5 middle 6 wingers to a 3rd C or something similar.

I understand this season and I guess we can maybe revisit after everything plays out; I could see this trade working it some team doesn’t acquire wing help

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

That's terrible for the Flames and I don't usually pump Bennett's tires.

Bennett is what he is, an aight 3rd liner, a player who can score some points with a sprinkle of gumption and pugnacity. 12 points in 50 games does not net you much though and he seems to only show said pugnacity and gumption in the playoffs. Connolly would be a great piece to acquire to improve their roster, a complete no brainer imo.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

$1.3m is enough leftover to add a good bottom 6er and roll 18 skaters. $1.7m is enough to add a good bottom 6er plus a plug to be healthy scratched and roll 19 skaters. I would be shocked if there aren't multiple teams this year traveling with only 21 players total.

And Connolly really isn't overpriced. He has paced for 19.5 goals over 82 games for the past four seasons, and each of those years his production per game has increased. While playing both sides, he has maintained a sky high shooting % and scores disproportionately 5v5. For $3.5m, I think that's pretty fair. It's just that the Panthers are prepping for a season with too many third wheels in the top 9 (Wennberg, Hornqvist, Connolly, Vatrano, Saarela...) and we need to move one of them for a guy who can actually drive a line.

TL;DR I respect your refusal, but I don't think you're dismissiveness lines up with my proposal's merit.

The season is going to be very compressed running less than 22 members is going to be a big mistake.

 

[Fig]

Makes sense Yep; I think the plan is to essentially switch one of our 5 middle 6 wingers to a 3rd C or something similar.

I understand this season and I guess we can maybe revisit after everything plays out; I could see this trade working it some team doesn’t acquire wing help

I think the concept of Ryan for Connolly was floated before and there was disagreement whether this could work for both teams (ie: Cap flexibility for Flames). For us, Ryan plays well with anyone and is really good whether he is a C or wing. I personally would prefer we move him to 1RW rather than pursue a ton of deal (ie: Connolly) so to you guys, probably Ryan for futures.

But if we could do a legitimate RW upgrade, I'd move Ryan in a heart beat. If FLA wants him, maybe a third team is required to broker the deal and eat the cap that FLA needs to move? (ie: Your GM is friendly with CBJ and they have a ton of cap space if Jarmo's mad scientist plan doesn't unfold as expected?)

Bennett is what he is, an aight 3rd liner, a player who can score some points with a sprinkle of gumption and pugnacity. 12 points in 50 games does not net you much though and he seems to only show said pugnacity and gumption in the playoffs. Connolly would be a great piece to acquire to improve their roster, a complete no brainer imo.

No brainer as in a move a Flames fan would do if he had no brain or something?

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

I have no interest in trading Bennett.

 

[NinjaTurtle]

$1.3m is enough leftover to add a good bottom 6er and roll 18 skaters. $1.7m is enough to add a good bottom 6er plus a plug to be healthy scratched and roll 19 skaters. I would be shocked if there aren't multiple teams this year traveling with only 21 players total.

And Connolly really isn't overpriced. He has paced for 19.5 goals over 82 games for the past four seasons, and each of those years his production per game has increased. While playing both sides, he has maintained a sky high shooting % and scores disproportionately 5v5. For $3.5m, I think that's pretty fair. It's just that the Panthers are prepping for a season with too many third wheels in the top 9 (Wennberg, Hornqvist, Connolly, Vatrano, Saarela...) and we need to move one of them for a guy who can actually drive a line.

TL;DR I respect your refusal, but I don't think you're dismissiveness lines up with my proposal's merit.

You may be right about my dismissiveness. The value isn’t terrible, and my comments towards Connolly are more about current state of the salary cap and less about his contributions at $3.5m. Most teams are in the same predicament. They could use to shed a few million to create breathing room and flexibility.

Connolly doesn’t move the needle enough to warrant us giving up on Bennett after his latest flash of success. I think a majority of Flames fans would like to give him another shot as a top 9 centre and see if he can spark some chemistry with Dube/Gaudreau/etc. He brings elements to our team that are lacking, and that’s why other fanbases bring up his name in trades.

The other part of the trade that I had trouble with, was including Borgstrom as a sweetener and referencing his abilities as a centre while shipping him out because you are looking for a centre...

Another poster brought up Derek Ryan as a potential piece to be moved. He has been great in our bottom 6 almost regardless of line mates, but is an option to move to shed salary. He does fit your needs, but you’ll likely pass on him because of his $3m+ salary. Exactly how I expect Flames fans to pass on Connolly because of his contract.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Flames should keep Bennett and actually play him at his natural position (center). Its not that he shows up in the playoffs.
It's that they play him at center in the playoffs.

 

[Double Dion]

I have no interest in trading Bennett.

Agreed. He's a player who is primed for a breakout. Of course this is the third season I;ve said that.

 

[violaswallet]

You may be right about my dismissiveness. The value isn’t terrible, and my comments towards Connolly are more about current state of the salary cap and less about his contributions at $3.5m. Most teams are in the same predicament. They could use to shed a few million to create breathing room and flexibility.

Connolly doesn’t move the needle enough to warrant us giving up on Bennett after his latest flash of success. I think a majority of Flames fans would like to give him another shot as a top 9 centre and see if he can spark some chemistry with Dube/Gaudreau/etc. He brings elements to our team that are lacking, and that’s why other fanbases bring up his name in trades.

The other part of the trade that I had trouble with, was including Borgstrom as a sweetener and referencing his abilities as a centre while shipping him out because you are looking for a centre...

Another poster brought up Derek Ryan as a potential piece to be moved. He has been great in our bottom 6 almost regardless of line mates, but is an option to move to shed salary. He does fit your needs, but you’ll likely pass on him because of his $3m+ salary. Exactly how I expect Flames fans to pass on Connolly because of his contract.

To answer about Borg, his value is certainly down. I think most of us are concerned that the relationship betweeen him and the team is damaged and hence are trying to move him

 

[Bounces R Way]

[MOD]

As to the OP I don't think many want to see Bennett gone. He's earned himself some more rope with the playoffs he had, especially after we heard he was playing through a triceps injury. Like some others have mentioned Ryan would be more available and probably wouldn't cost too much. Probably Borgstrom just by himself would be good enough. Ryan is actually pretty good for a bottom 6 C, just kind of redundant here if they plan on playing either Bennett or Dube at their natural positions.

 

[DFF]

Only work if f florida picks up lucic also

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

No brainer as in a move a Flames fan would do if he had no brain or something?

Never thought of it that way.

Agreed. He's a player who is primed for a breakout. Of course this is the third season I;ve said that.

You don’t see how ridiculous that looks? at what point do you guys start to succumb to the fact that what you see is what you get with him? Is it the draft positioning that keeps the hope up? Buddy regressed hard last season, it’s better to ship him out and get some assets before the ruse is up.

 

[QcFlames12]

Bennett is important on a bunch of levels for the flames so I am not really interested in moving him.

Would you be interested in a Ryan for Connolly swap.

Ryan could help bolster your middle 6 and is a solid two way center. Can PK and is a good option for a second powerplay.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Agreed. He's a player who is primed for a breakout. Of course this is the third season I;ve said that.

Probably benefits from a change of scenery.
What makes you think he breaks out this year?
He has decent playoff production though

 

[HighLifeMan]

Probably benefits from a change of scenery.
What makes you think he breaks out this year?
He has decent playoff production though

1. Having a coach that will play him down the middle.
2. Not being stuck at the hip on Mark Jankowski’s wing

Sam Bennett is a good hockey player. His counting stats don’t do him justice.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

1. Having a coach that will play him down the middle.
2. Not being stuck at the hip on Mark Jankowski’s wing

Sam Bennett is a good hockey player. His counting stats don’t do him justice.

The eye test proves otherwise. He’s been very disappointing since his D+1 season.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

1. Having a coach that will play him down the middle.
2. Not being stuck at the hip on Mark Jankowski’s wing

Sam Bennett is a good hockey player. His counting stats don’t do him justice.

On the 3rd line again? Who will his line-mates be?
So what's the threshold for satisfaction/expectations this year?
15 goals, 35-40pts?

 

[Fig]

On the 3rd line again? Who will his line-mates be?
So what's the threshold for satisfaction/expectations this year?
15 goals, 35-40pts?

" lubed U" AKA the slippery line

Lucic
Bennett
Dube



Expect 30 points and 3 Gordie Howe hatricks

Never thought of it that way.
View attachment 372932

You don’t see how ridiculous that looks? at what point do you guys start to succumb to the fact that what you see is what you get with him? Is it the draft positioning that keeps the hope up? Buddy regressed hard last season, it’s better to ship him out and get some assets before the ruse is up.

Is that a skinny Brandon Bolling?

If Bennett is as crap as you imply, why is FLA not cluing in on the fact we can't drive him to the airport fast enough?

 

[DirtDiver]

On the 3rd line again? Who will his line-mates be?
So what's the threshold for satisfaction/expectations this year?
15 goals, 35-40pts?

If he does that it would be like all my birthdays come at once lol. Lets start with 30 points while playing center the whole year.

 

[Sam Pollock]

Never thought of it that way.
View attachment 372932

You don’t see how ridiculous that looks? at what point do you guys start to succumb to the fact that what you see is what you get with him? Is it the draft positioning that keeps the hope up? Buddy regressed hard last season, it’s better to ship him out and get some assets before the ruse is up.

I have to ask but why would you want him if he's not all that? I will be the first one to admit that the biggest disappointment about Bennett is that he was taken 4th overall. If he had been a 2nd rounder the general attitude would be "not bad" and if he had been a 3rd rounder, the consensus would be "pretty good". If he had been picked in the 4th round or later then we would think that he was a great pick.

Bennett serves a lot of attributes for the Calgary Flames just not the ones that he was originally drafted for. As for anyone saying that we need more production from him during the regular season, we have Gaudreau and Monahan for that. Bennett is a heart and soul guy for the playoffs. Also, playing 3rd/4th line minutes does hurt his production.

 

[Mazatt]

Connolly is a vet and he fits the flames roster like a glove, taking a gander at the flames roster I think something like this makes sense.

Flames: Bennett, 2021 1st.
Panthers: Connolly + 2nd.

looks pretty even to me.

If you want people at actually debate you're post, here's a shot.

The trade market for sellers is absolutely shot. It is out the window now that trying to make trades right now is not helpful to any teams downgrading in money with the emphasis on contracts. That is without mentioning the insane idea that a third line winger is worth a 1st on his won before you add in Calgary's only regular playoff performer. You may bring up the argument that it's better to make the playoffs than to do good in them, and while that's true, Connoly is not the breaking point of that and I do not see where he fits in our roster, despite you saying he is the kind of guy you move cap space for.

Most important of all, we have a coach who is finally willing to play Bennett at centre and listen to his players thoughts on positions they play in. He played Bennett at centre during the regular season and he produced there, and is seemingly willing to continue doing so going forward. Of course, Bennett has been a snake oil salesman in the past when it comes to his abilities, but if game to game engagement is the root of his flaws we'd be silly to get a guy who listens and pushes for that engagement just to trade the player he stands to benefit most. Trading Bennett now for anyone more expensive is unrealistic given the Flames current cap space, and would be terrible asset management given the coach the Flames are brining into this season.

 

[Mazatt]

Flames should keep Bennett and actually play him at his natural position (center). Its not that he shows up in the playoffs.
It's that they play him at center in the playoffs.

That isn't really true at all. When he was the best Flames player in 2018-19 in the playoffs he did it almost exclusively on the wing of Jankowski, though he moved up to be the #1 RW later on in the series. He's a playoff shower and that has value, the big question is if he somehow can translate that to the regular season with playing a position he wants to.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That isn't really true at all. When he was the best Flames player in 2018-19 in the playoffs he did it almost exclusively on the wing of Jankowski, though he moved up to be the #1 RW later on in the series. He's a playoff shower and that has value, the big question is if he somehow can translate that to the regular season with playing a position he wants to.

He produced well in 18-19, but he really wasn't all that noticeable.

This past playoff he was very easily the flames most noticeable and impactful player.