Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 3

[blankall]

I know that, and I agree - I am just stating that the difference really isn't that much between the two - after two years. Pro's and cons to both buyouts at that time.

I agree. The retention that adds $750k to Edm and subtracts $750k from CGY is a major factor too. That's a 1.5 million swing in cap space.

 

[blankall]

In Scenario A; an unproductive Lucic is definitely better than an unproductive Neal. An unproductive Neal is a goal surrendering machine that makes you want to put your foot through your TV. He should fit right in with the boys in EDM.

Lucic still knocks a lot of people down and has the occasional throw down. Neal....not so much.

 

[Aceboogie]

Lucic still knocks a lot of people down and has the occasional throw down. Neal....not so much.

Oh boy, you are in for a treat if you think Lucic is even remotely physical anymore haha. Him and Gagner legitmately might have the same impact physically

 

[blankall]

Oh boy, you are in for a treat if you think Lucic is even remotely physical anymore haha. Him and Gagner legitmately might have the same impact physically

Lucic was awful last year, but this simply isn't true.

Lucic led the Oilers in hits last year, with 259, despite only playing bottom six minutes. There are also plenty of YouTube highlights of Lucic knocking people down.

If you think Lucic is useless when he's not scoring....wait until you see Neal.

 

[KCC]

Lucic still knocks a lot of people down and has the occasional throw down. Neal....not so much.

Uh....LOL. Sorry to break it to you slugger but Lucic barely even hits or it seems like because he can’t keep up anymore. Want him to contribute? Ooooo sorry, he has stone hands. They think bringing him in will bring a physical toughness? Maybe almost a decade ago. Can’t do much when you’re barely a 4th line player.

 

[Laodongxi]

Lucic was awful last year, but this simply isn't true.

Lucic led the Oilers in hits last year, with 259, despite only playing bottom six minutes. There are also plenty of YouTube highlights of Lucic knocking people down.

If you think Lucic is useless when he's not scoring....wait until you see Neal.

Our ex-bum is way worse than your ex-bum.

 

[Soundwave]

The numbers don't support your assertion. Lucic averaged :53 PP TOI/game, with only 4 points coming on the PP. Lucic was only given 13:14 TOI/game. His numbers, if around 20 points, are actually what you'd expect from a forward getting that little ice time. Did he deserve more....no, not the way he was playing, but his ice time didn't do any favors for him.

Neal, on the other hand, was given 2:12 PP TOI/game and 14:57 total per minute. He had 6 PP points.

Neal's numbers are more reliant on the PP, and he did less with more time on the ice.

0:53 minutes of PP time is far more than he deserved, as you noted his PP production was atrocious, it got cut off to nothing in the 2nd half of the season, but the 1st half of the season he was still getting prime PP opportunities with McDavid and Draisaitl and doing nothing.

20 points is inflated, if he was used more like a normal 3rd/4th liner all year long, he would've finished with like 9 or 10 points. They were still trying to get him going like a top 6 forward for big chunks of the season last year.

 

[blankall]

0:53 minutes of PP time is far more than he deserved, as you noted his PP production was atrocious, it got cut off to nothing in the 2nd half of the season, but the 1st half of the season he was still getting prime PP opportunities with McDavid and Draisaitl and doing nothing.

20 points is inflated, if he was used more like a normal 3rd/4th liner all year long, he would've finished with like 9 or 10 points. They were still trying to get him going like a top 6 forward for big chunks of the season last year.

My point was that if Lucic's points are considered inflated, then Neal's are much more inflated. Neal had over twice the PP time and more ice time overall.

 

[Soundwave]

My point was that if Lucic's points are considered inflated, then Neal's are much more inflated. Neal had over twice the PP time and more ice time overall.

Neal had a very bad start to the season, but started to produce more down the stretch on the 3rd line, close to 0.5 ppg. At least he started to find some semblance of offensive production once he settled in a bit with relatively mediocre linemates ... Lucic basically sucked ass all year long.

 

[nturn06]

My point was that if Lucic's points are considered inflated, then Neal's are much more inflated. Neal had over twice the PP time and more ice time overall.

Last year
Neal: 139:03 PP time
Lucic: 106:07 PP time

Neal: 942:22 TOI
Lucic: 1045: 38 TOI

139:03 is not "over twice" 106:07, it is only 30% more, and Neal produced 50% more PPP than Lucic. As for the "more ice time overall", you should check that.

 

[blankall]

Last year
Neal: 139:03 PP time
Lucic: 106:07 PP time

Neal: 942:22 TOI
Lucic: 1045: 38 TOI

139:03 is not "over twice" 106:07, it is only 30% more, and Neal produced 50% more PPP than Lucic. As for the "more ice time overall", you should check that.

Look at per game....

You also need to look at Neal abysmal playoff performance.

My point was that if you are going to make the point that Lucic's numbers were inflated by ice-time, then Neal's numbers are even more inflated. Neal was consistently gifted prime ice time to "get him going".

 

[Skolman]

What are we, a week since the trade? Flames fans still trying to justify this as a good trade for their franchise

 

[Bounces R Way]

lmao at the notion of either Lucic or Neal's point totals being "inflated"

Don't like this trade for the Flames. Feel pretty strongly either the pick should have not been conditional or the retention should have been around 20%.

I do think that both players have a better chance of rebounding than they did with the teams they were traded from. Any Oiler fans thinking they're getting a "sniper" are going to be disappointed. That's what we thought at the time of the signing and really didn't see any of that. Neal looked like he completely lost his ability to shoot, and really that's the only reason we signed him since the rest of our forward group actually doesn't have the ability to take a slapshot. If he has indeed lost the finishing touch he'll be worse than useless.

 

[Tkachuky]

Lucic will be better in the role he'll be given on the Flames, and Neal should be more successful in the role he's given in Edmonton. Oilers win based on getting the better contract with buyout opportunity. Flames save some cash and hopefully Lucic will waive to go to Seattle when the time comes.

This is the perfect summary.

 

[Bond]

Only a trade between the Flames and Oilers would generate this much discussion for a crap for crap trade.

Flames lose due to contract status. Only way Flames could win contract wise is if they can pawn Lucic off a team looking to hit the cap floor but since the NMC stands, I doubt Lucic waives for a crap team. Neal is more likely to bounce back and it helps the Oilers, would have been happier as a Flames fan with 20% retention or a conditional second.

 

[Lunatik]

Worry about Lucic bud.

If Lucic provides 5-10 goals and 15-20 points, while being physical, it's an upgrade for the Flames. That's all any of us are trying to say. Neal might do better for you, but he wasn't going to be better here.

 

[DFF]

6.5M?
Just because the Oilers retained on Lucic, that doesn't change the fact that Neal's contract is still 5.75M. The retention changes the Lucic contract for the Flames, not the Neal contract for the Oilers.

It's a junk for junk trade, both players will probably continue to be junk next season and going forward but the Oilers got the player with the more manageable contract so if both players suck, this is a win for the Oilers based on contract alone.

Both players needed a change of scenery, both players fill a need for their respective teams if they get the most out of their abilities (Neal with goal scoring, Lucic with toughness) so it could be a win win in that sense. More than likely, it'll be a lose lose for both teams on the ice and a win for the Oilers based on contract. Not a big win but a win at least the way it looks now. Nothing to really brag about but we'll take it after so many years of losing trades.

It's still the total cost to the oilers

But I agreed with everything else you said. Nice to know there is at least one sane oilers fan

 

[Cup or Bust]

Neal had a very bad start to the season, but started to produce more down the stretch on the 3rd line, close to 0.5 ppg. At least he started to find some semblance of offensive production once he settled in a bit with relatively mediocre linemates ... Lucic basically sucked ass all year long.

Neal had almost twice as many shots on goal as Lucic in 16 less games. At least he is still capable of getting scoring chances. I would rather have that guy, then a guy who adds very inconsistent physical play and almost nothing else. But most importantly, I would rather have the flexibility of Neal's contract by far.

 

[Lunatik]

[

Only a trade between the Flames and Oilers would generate this much discussion for a crap for crap trade.

Flames lose due to contract status. Only way Flames could win contract wise is if they can pawn Lucic off a team looking to hit the cap floor but since the NMC stands, I doubt Lucic waives for a crap team. Neal is more likely to bounce back and it helps the Oilers, would have been happier as a Flames fan with 20% retention or a conditional second.

After listening to Treliving's interview on the Fan yesterday, I am 100% convinced Lucic has already agreed to waive his NMC for expansion.

 

[Bond]

[After listening to Treliving's interview on the Fan yesterday, I am 100% convinced Lucic has already agreed to waive his NMC for expansion.

I am more talking about trading him before the expansion but even then unless it is in writing, I don't feel that great about it.

 

[DFF]

I am more talking about trading him before the expansion but even then unless it is in writing, I don't feel that great about it.

He has already showed he is willing to waive to go to Calgary. It's not a big deal. Besides there is not a big market for guys like him and Neal anyway

 

[qwerty]

You aren't looking at it from an outside perspective. You are looking at it through rose-colored flames glasses. You are also ignorantly putting down a very knowledgeable Oilers fan base that has seen Lucic play every damn shift. The fanbase isn't some emotional 15 year old teenager that hates everything Chiarelli touched. Come on man, that is absolutely asinine. He wasn't good for 1.5 years. His playoffs were absolute trash. Completely invisible. Let Kesler and Getzlaf manhandle McDavid and did nothing. A theme we would continue to see. If you think he will be some sort of protector- you are dead wrong. Go ahead, continue to ignore what the Oiler fanbase is telling you, you will see soon enough.

Protector? When have I talked about Lucic being a protector at all? I don’t even believe that deterrents actually deter anything. I watched a few games since the trade happened and was impressed with his overall game, with and without the puck. He didn’t even throw a punch in any of the games I saw. I was pleasantly surprised to see that he wasn’t just the face puncher I was expecting.

 

[blankall]

Neal had almost twice as many shots on goal as Lucic in 16 less games. At least he is still capable of getting scoring chances. I would rather have that guy, then a guy who adds very inconsistent physical play and almost nothing else. But most importantly, I would rather have the flexibility of Neal's contract by far.

Those shots were downright awful and killed those plays. Neal was so painful to watch. He regularly missed open nets, or would kill plays by fumbling the puck or shooting directly into the goalie. Neal had a vastly negative net effect on scoring chances. He didn't generate any of his own, and he wasted many of his linemates.

 

[McFlash97]

If Lucic provides 5-10 goals and 15-20 points, while being physical, it's an upgrade for the Flames. That's all any of us are trying to say. Neal might do better for you, but he wasn't going to be better here.

good for the Flames.

Neal is a massive upgrade on stone hands Lucic. Guy was useless in Edmonton. Is slower then Neal, worst shot.


great deal for the Oilers too.

 

[blankall]

What are we, a week since the trade? Flames fans still trying to justify this as a good trade for their franchise

I really don't see that as the case. The Flames fans see it as garbage for garbage. Oilers fans are trying to make this out like some huge win...and also inexplicably pumping Neal's tires...baffling, he was garbage.